I forget, which move is Condor Spire lol? Is it the air dive? If so, with other chars, I’ve dashed up to him and punished with a combo.
Condor Spire is T.Hawk’s new Super SFIV special. The one where he just dives staight forward at you on the ground like a psycho crusher.
Juri’s LK pinwheel is negative 4 on block. So if she does it from max range C.Viper has nothing that can reliably punish it with her slow start up frames on everything.
Ah, right thanks. That shows I need to fight more Hawks lol.
As for LK Pinwheel, if you block it crouching, one of the kicks during the rotation will whiff, which makes it more unsafe. Alcheymyst, my friend Dafro and I tested it out in training mode, Balrog was able to reversal Ultra from max LK Pinwheel range when he blocked it low and Viper was able to punish with cr.hp and cr.mp when she blocked it low(though I’m not sure whether or not it was from max range…) Held block all the way through too. Punishment with Viper’s cr.hp seems quite tight though.
I can’t remember where I saw the whole blocking LK Pinwheel low thing, but I’ll be sure to source it once I find it. It’s on the Juri forums somewhere. They said the disadvantage amounted to -9 when blocked low, but again, will need to find that info.
EDIT: Oh yeah, Juri has a jump-in option select like Ryu except she uses EX Pinwheel and apparently that crushes any reversal Viper can do on wake-up.
Well yeah if blocking Juri’s LK pinwheel while crouching does bring it to negative 9 c.HP would be like a frame tight punish. Since her c.HP takes 8 frames to start up you’d have to do pretty much a reversal c.HP or she gets away for free. It would seem to be worth it with the potential damage you could get off of it though. It’s just especially online you’re not going to be reliably hitting her with reversal c.HP after a near max range LK pinwheel. The most reliable punish you’ll have for max range LK pinwheel is probably c.MK since it has the longest range and starts up in 7 frames which gives u a more reliable punish that doesn’t require a flat out frame tight reversal. Though if u really need the damage u can try the c.HP. It’s just if u miss it’s a waste.
Yeah I tried it out in training mode and u seem to be mostly right. Actually if u have super she can’t use pinwheel at all because HP emergency combination starts up in 5 frames and will punish it pretty free after crouch block.
Yeah Viper should just be blocking against Juri on wake up any ways. She has too many ways to bait reversals between safe jumps and her counters.
Yeah, chances are you’ll miss it a lot online, so you’re right, best to stick to cr.mk. And sweet stuff about Super too!
Okay, I have no clue about Makoto. It just seems when she gets in, you have to guess. So far, I’ve guessed right luckily. I haven’t played any Makotos on the level of, say Flash, V-Ryu, Ninja-CW, etc.
Ibuki, I thought I knew stuff about her, but I don’t, so I think that’s best left up to you guys haha.
Ibuki seems pretty even to me. Not that I’ve played against a ton of other Ibukis yet myself but the jist is basically to keep her out and scare her with MP knuckles and MP knuckle feints. Especially if you fight against the focus attack happy Ibuki player since her focus attack level 1 has pretty quick start up. You wanna feint electricity at her to make her think twice about throwing it out so u can work in your c.MP and MP knuckle game. The jist is basically to knock Ibuki down because if u knock Ibuki down she is horrifically free on wake up. Like Viper actually has solid reversal options compared to Ibuki it’s sad. LOL. The only reversal she has is EX kazekiri (DP) and that starts up in 5 frames. Meaning it’s easy to safe jump and the biggest problem is that her EX DP moves her forward so if you cross her up she basically pushes herself forward behind your cross up. Meaning even if u don’t safe jump your cross up against her she’ll probably still fly far and away from you and u can punish when she lands. Balrog is notorious for being able to force Ibuki’s EX DP to fly under him during jump ins. Which is why it’s best to try to make her EX DP whiff because if it whiff she can’t throw a kunai after and she’s dead. Even if u block the EX DP all u have to do is start charging a focus and when she throws the kunai just absorb it and dash forward at her for a free punish. If she doesn’t throw the kunai immediately u can just dash forward and punish.
Probably the only real seriously annoying things u have to deal with in this matchup that I’ve seen so far (from playing other people and what I know about Ibuki myself) is that she has a 3 frame s.LP that combos into anything, a 4 frame c.LP with a nice hit box that combos into everything, a s.MP that executes in 5 frames and has a deceptively large hit box and can force counter hits easily and combos into sweep. Now the problem with all of this is that at close range she’s going to be like fighting another Sakura, Balrog etc. She has combos that allow her 3 frames to combo a neck break afterwards.
Basically what that means is if Ibuki hits you with a jab or a medium u are basically almost guaranteed to be put in an untech knockdown situation immediately afterwards. It also means if u let Ibuki get in your face there isn’t shit much u can do outside of blocking or backdashing. Mashing on burn kicks will get killed by c.LP and s.LP, your thunder knuckle takes too long to come out to reliably use against smart jab spacing and since her s.LP hits crouching people like Sakura she can basically mash on s.LP in your face for free minus EX seismo or guess HP TK. Though like Balrog or Ryu if she’s in your face and mashing c.LP the hit box will meaty out your EX seismo free so good Ibuki’s will just mash c.LP at you once they get close to you. On wake up it’s the same deal. She can just option select with c.LP or simply mash c.LP and she’ll beat EX seismo free. Generally u don’t want to ever get hit by Ibuki’s light or medium attacks because all it takes is one landed LP or MP and u can see yourself in a vortex situation. Once Ibuki is in your face she can pretty safely fish for counter hit focus attacks with her solid focus since all of your armor breakers start too slow to risk using on reaction outside of flat guesses.
If you get knocked down by Ibuki the best thing to do is just learn to block the right way. You have to block the kunai vortex depending on where she was when the kunai was thrown. If she was in front of you when the kunai was thrown block it as a regular jump in. If she got slightly behind u before throwing the kunai block it as a cross up. A little bit easier said than done because she can make it pretty ambiguous but u just have to have an eye for it. Good Ibukis will tend to mix up her vortex with safe jump LK’s since that’s probably her best cross up. j.MK is ok but it has a small hit box for crossing compared to 3S.
Viper actually has a couple pretty decent reversals against Kunai vortex depending on if the opponent does them meaty or not. Like Ibuki’s kunai will kill different things depending on if she does it so it hits you high or real low and meaty. If she hits you with a kunai real meaty (which is good for killing most quick starting non EX reversals with ease) Viper has a lot of ways out (the type of meaty kunai that almost touches the floor before it hits u). EX seismo feint will get you out for free. LK burn kick will hop you over the kunai and force Ibuki into a situation where she has to block your burn kick. Even HP Thunder knuckle will hit her out of it since Viper is invincible until just before she goes into the air and Ibuki is still recovering from the landing of the kunai. Just don’t try to backdash since a meaty kunai kills the start up of backdash. You can focus backdash out but since it’s a meaty kunai the timing to do this is pretty strict and if u mess up you basically get blown up again with the vortex. It’s probably not a bad idea to try focus backdashing out with Viper since Viper’s backdash is really good and if she does get it right she’s out for free basically. Though of course if u mess up u go right back to eating pain and untech knockdowns.
If she goes for a kunai that hits you a bit higher and early on your wake up… because of your slow start up frames on all your reversals u basically can’t get out with much as far as reversal specials are concerned. Normally Ibuki wants to hit with a super meaty kunai to limit most reversal options but Viper’s reversals are so slow she can do an earlier lazy kunai to kill most of your special reversals. EX seismo will completely whiff and you’ll get punished. EX seismo feint will get stuffed because it forces Viper to stand during recovery making her hit box real big and u get comboed for free. EX burn kick starts up fast but the recovery is so slow she can just land and HP neck break you again during the recovery and you’re back in the vortex. HP thunder knuckle makes her hit box real big and starts up slow so she’ll get hit for free. If you time a focus attack at pretty much reversal timing on the wake up u can do that and then dash out. Though the timing is strict and if u mess up u will get hit. Mashing backdash or LK burn kick isn’t terrible against this type of kunai vortex since it just puts you in an airborne juggle state but Ibuki can just juggle u with Raida afterwards which puts you in an untech knockdown situation then u have to deal with cross up again any way. Though if she doesn’t juggle anything then it’s kind of an escape.
So basically u have different options depending on how the kunai lands on you but unless you have a super good eye for it the best thing to do is just learn to block the right way and zone Ibuki out so u don’t get knocked down. Ibuki has a serious seriuos wake up game because she can basically force u to have to block or do something incredibly risky that can work in her favor if u don’t know what you are doing. Which is why most good players just block because unless u see the exact kunai situation coming at you it’s just not worth the risk to try and get out with something other than a block.
Sweet stuff, thanks. Gonna create slots for the new chars and add what info we have here, plus try and add more stuff on the previous chars later on.
I main Ken and Viper is still my hardest matchup in Super…Everybody has there tough ones though, Bison is a little tougher for me now as well, but overall seems close to even.
I can’t for the life of me figure out you guys crazy mix-up with viper though, I’d take Ibuki anyday.
What mix-ups are you having trouble with Omnicloud?
A good Viper is one of the most beautiful things in this game imo, so lush.
What attracted me to viper is the fact she can do so much without actually doing anything. I’m guessing omnicloud has trouble with her flow in general, things like feints in a blockstring into dash throw or crossup BK are definately a bitch to deal with if you’re not very familiar with her. Hell even if you are, she’s so fast that it is pretty hard to block some stuff. A good Viper can capitalize on mistakes by doing a big damage. I feel like I’ve upgraded my game significantly by improving my punishers into ultra such as midscreen ultra.
Yet, I still can never decide to just focus on her, and drop my other character 
I feel like to be really efficient with Viper I should just focus entirely on her.
Ok, lets see, i’ve read a few interesting things here and i’ve been meaning to reply…here goes
Ryuga:
Juri’s dive is a bit different than adons though, she can do it jumping forward or backwards and is a lot faster than adon’s which he has to fly to the wall first. Its easy to react to Adon, but way harder to react to juris, i would often get hit by it if im walking forward and shes about mid screen and she dives at me…
Correctly spaced pinwheels…what are the frame disadv? if nothing is at -5 viper cant’ do much
i gotta try the whiffed lk pinwheel though…
I did not know f+mp beats dive kicks. thats good to knwo
I meant Juri’s Dive could be beaten out with Ex Seismo the same way as Adon’s one. Reacting to it is another story haha.
Correctly spaced LK Pinwheels are at -4 to -5 or something like that and if you block it high, there’s nothing Viper can punish with except for Super? If you crouch block LK Pinwheel, however it’s apparently -9.
oh yea, for sureexseismo can beat it
kinda like ex seismo feint dodging rog’s ultra 
(i know i knwo, its no where near as hard )
Yeah, EX Seismo feinting Rog’s Ultra is insane lol.
So far, I’ve only fought one Hakan with Viper, and I kinda messed him up pretty badly. I want to pick up Hakan so I can find out more. Apparently he’s got some set-ups with his DDT amongst other nasty stuff on wake-up, but can’t exactly remember…
I have never had a problem with Hakan, I think that match is free imo. Any Hakan I have fought I have at least perfected one of the rounds using just burn kick mix ups on wake up if you let him breath and get oil it can be a problem so just stay on him. Its also super easy to bait out ultra two with a sj.light kick flame kick spaced away from him on wake up, give the idea that you are going to cross up.
Re Fuerte: -His meaty tortilla throws he does off a knock down from a back run (the back flip thing that grabs you ducking and standing) can be ex seismo feinted for throw invulnerability, then FFF recovery, or if you have no meter back dash then st mp, cr m p etc.
-Thought of an ex tk os for his throw splashes off forward runs (the ones that can be ducked and punished): you see him run at you and you think he’ll go for a throw splash or maybe a slide block low, if you see a splash after the throw splash would have hit quickly do the motion qcb, hcf + 2p, this will auto correct the side he lands so you dont lose time trying to confirm, and the ex tk should hit his recovery if you timed it right. Have to do it pretty fast to get the recovery. So it loses to splash (since you’re ducking), blocks a slide if it comes out and os’s a splash throw .
So…I fought a Ibuki that actually knew everything she had to offer…lost almost to a double perfect…
Is that match-up heavily in Ibuki’s favor? Burnkicks seem useless due to her throw knives and her vortex raped me so bad, I just panicked and lost my cool. I always thought ‘‘lol vortex whatever’’ but that shit is some serious business.
Nah I’d say it’s pretty even. You just have to learn how to deal with the vortex. People who don’t always get raped by it. The way to block the kunai can be very deceiving. That’s Ibuki’s best asset though, so dealing with it takes a lot away from her main game plan.
And burnkicks are better used for ambiguous cross ups while your opponent is on wake up. I don’t see how you’re getting kunai’d out of bks unless you’re just throwing them out randomly.
Crossup bk never works either as she can hit me out of it with a normal, either way burn kicks were pretty useless it seemed.
This post has been moved to the vipers of PSN thread