Yup, added it!
Fei Long, Viper herself and Dan are the only sections left. No serious Dan or Fei mainers on my friends list, I have to go into training mode to test out some stuff against them.
I just realized I suck at viper mirrors. I be surprised by the same mix ups I use on others that is being used on me. It sucks : (
happens to me everytime too
***double post. internet crashed
Yes. Not enough Viper to play with.
I’m going to read some of the M. Bison stuff. He’s so gay.
When trying to beat out ex sbk with elbow or j. hk, what’s the timing? Is it late or safe jumped? I feel stupid cause I can’t get this right and it’s making this match harder than should be for me. >___<
^
This vid by Coos explains the timing for safe jumping Chun: [media=youtube]AJ_9piEq7N8[/media]
I really think this thread needs updated, and a sticky/added to the first post of the other matchup thread somehow. It puts the other matchup thread posts to shame. Lots of great info without searching. Thanks Ryuga!
yea i agree.
I’ve been to other characters and seems like viper thread is lacking.
Its good for beginner questions and learning viper.
but once we hit inter/adv levels we need more info on playing specific matchups.
I know people like Coos, DJ, and Ryuga always helped out. Would be nice to get more advanced vipers to help out.
No prob guys! Right now, I have little to none experience vs the new cast with Viper. Only character I can say a few things about is Ibuki, since I’ve played her the most out of the new cast, and I’m no expert so what I have to say to most likely be wrong. I will need to spend some time in training mode to test out a few things first.
Ryuga, i also saw that you didn’t include Ibuki there, you might want to do that 
Yeah, I realized I can’t talk much about that match-up too, lol, however, I can talk about Juri somewhat since I use her, though nobody seems to be having a problem with her on this forum so far… Lemme just copy and paste what I said about Juri vs Viper in another forum. Feel free to correct anything I said though.
*People say Juri wins this, Viper can’t Seismo as effectively as Juri can stop this with her Shikusen dive and Kasatushi counter. Juri can use cr.mk to lower her hitbox enough to make Burning Kicks whiff, similar to shoto cr.mk. Juri, on the whole, has better normals than Viper, but in my opinion, not by much.
My opinion is that if they come across a Viper who makes use of her normals and walkspeed, they’ll change their tune. Juri may have better normals than Viper, but Viper has much better walkspeed than Juri and, in my opinion of course, can easily move in and out of range to whiff punish Juri or get a counter hit with cr.mp. I believe Viper can get better results keeping the fight on the ground as Juri has a lot of normals that can AA, though similar to Chun Li, they are situational. Juri’s will tend to avoid using Fuhajins from far away due to Seismo, however, Fuhajin fireballs are versatile and are great up close offensively, either for blockstrings or for combos. She can also combo sweep off a fireball mid-screen depending on the distance.
Viper’s normals are slow to start up and Light Pinwheel has some disdvantage, but not enough for Viper’s normals to punish, so some of the Juri players over at SRK think if they space it correctly, they can get away with abusing it. Well, they can’t lol, because all Viper has to do is block low, like mentioned before and one of the kicks in the rotation will whiff, making the move much more unsafe. And if Viper gets a knockdown, it can be game over. I also think Viper can use Ex Seismo to beat out Shikusen dives, similar to how she can stop Adon’s Jaguar Tooth(?) with it; using the invincibility of the Ex Seismo to beat it out.
Juri’s corner game is very strong. Once she has Viper in the corner, she can really pile on the pressure. She can start doing blockstrings into Fuhajin store, which leave her relatively safe. Once that happens, she’s got a fireball stocked and can start building up a big offence. She can release it, if blocked, it puts her at good advantage frame-wise and she can follow up with throw, providing her with an untechable knockdown to store another fireball, frame trap into more blockstrings into Fuhajin store or sweep to give her an untechable knockdown. If it connects, Juri gets to combo off it. She can mix it up with her overhead too to get you to loosen up your guard. I’d rather eat the overhead, it won’t lead to anything unless it’s a counter hit…or she’s in Feng Shui Egnine. If she manages to store to store two fireballs, no matter what, don’t get hit lol. If she has Feng Shui activated, Juri becomes a lot more offensive. I’ll post more on this later in an edit as well as more on how to be on the look out for Fuhajins in the corner.
However, if Viper gets Juri into a corner, Juri’s equally screwed in my opinion. Juri’s defensive options are, in some cases, worse than Viper’s. If you knock her down in the corner, Viper can really mess her about. In the corner when she’s knocked down, Juri’s only really got three options to get out; block and tech and find an opportunity to get out, Kasatushi counter and Ex Pinwheel.
Regular Kasatushi has some start-up and can be stuffed on wake-up, but if they get the counter off, it’ll be the light one which makes Juri dash forward and phase past the opponent. If the Juri player has meter, chances are if they’re going to use the counter, it’ll be the Ex one as that one has less start-up. With the Kasatushi, they’re looking to swap positions, so that you’re in the corner and they’re out. The Ex one can be also be manually controlled and a trick Juri players have been using lately is to control the Ex counter so that they leap into the air, but move forward in the air slightly and cross up with a neutral jump roundhouse. There’s a video example of this, I’ll need to find it but regardless of whether it hits or not, they’ve swapped positions. Viper could probably predict this and AA with HP Thunder Knuckle, but I’m not sure.
EX Pinwheel is the get-off-me move. Except, it’s actually not that great. Highly punishable, can be stuffed by cross-ups, and can trade. Both EX Pinwheel and Kasatushi can be thrown. Yup, EX Pinwheel is not throw invulnerable haha. Counters are not immune to focus breakers, but can escape multiple hitting moves and can escape chip damage situations because she doesn’t suffer any damage whatsoever during the counter. So, the safest option would be for Juri to block and ride it out while looking out for an opportunity to escape.
*
Will come back and edit this post to talk about Juri’s Feng Shui Engine and what you should watch out for. Also, Poopclown’s got info on T-Hawk, but I really need to have to breakfast right now lol, had to go shopping in the morning…
FUCKING HATE EVERYBODY’s sweep it’s all fucking safe, herp derp i’m gonna sweep max range. block wtf does viper do nothing, hey I’m far away lol let’s jump at viper cuz she doesn’t have a good anti-air herp derp. >_> fucking bs
Matchup wise I can’t think any of the new characters are that much of a threat besides thawk(Seriously…Fuck him). Guy is annoying but can be dealt with, Cody is only bad til you get a knockdown, Makoto is…well…you know atm, Dee Jay can be annoying but not that troublesome.
Although they are “new” I don’t see them posing a threat to viper atm. Maybe down the road but then again there will be ways to deal with them.
Can’t really say anything about the sweep except ex seismo on reaction.
As for AAing. HP tradeknuckle > HP tradeknuckle/u1 seems like a good idea as it seems to do nothing but trade.
For crossups just block and tech it’s pretty much all I can think of.
Yeah I don’t have any problems with Juri so far. Her dive kicks aren’t exactly safe, and her get-the-fuck-off-me moves aren’t safe either.
Also, f+mp beats dive kicks.
Haven’t had many problems with Hawk either, but then again, I’ve only played a couple who weren’t the type that mash 360 nonstop either lol.
I think for right now Viper beats Juri. I think there’s still things that need to be ironed out with Juri and that people aren’t playing her at her highest level possible for me to consider her a challenge. I’ve yet to fight a Juri that makes any real trouble for me outside of abusing ambiguous crosses after a knockdown and Ultra 1 mix ups.
Yeah, EX Seismo is the only thing I can really do which is why it’s annoying and like knuckle > knuckle doesn’t really stop anyone from jumping (I think they think that the damage is ass) before U1 is stocked and people stop jumping when you have U1 stocked because obviously you’re going to trade > U1.
I’d say the match-up for Viper and Juri would be 5-5 slightly in Viper’s favour simply because Viper can stop some of Juri’s shit and she’s much more vulnerable on vortex it’s ridiculous.
Juri is actully the character I have the most experience with as she was the only new character I put time in with, with the exception of ibuki. So I’ll provide as much knowledge as i can for this match up that ryuga had not covered some of the info I might be restating but oh well.
Tool wise I think viper beats juri pretty convecingly. Juri cannot zone viper simply because of seismo, Lp tk, her over head, and f.rh. It done correctly f.rh will hit juri after a short fb release and will dissapate before connecting with viper, and her over head will go over lp fb and nail juri. Her forward fb will get beat every time by lp tk, and you could possibly counter hit her with c.fwd xx lp tk for some decent damage. Her rh fb is mostly just for aa uses and I don’t think it will tag viper from her over head. Juri has armor counters just like gouken so of course good juri players will limit the amount of counters they use in this match up, but if your playing someone who likes to abuse her counters and ex counters strong tk will teach them to stop that shit. Counters has a good amount of start up so they won’t be used much unless in this match up just be careful and mix up with your seismo game and don’t abuse bk to much or juri players will start doing anticipatory counter and baits for incoming bks. Ex counter, ex pin wheel, and cl.fp are her best wake up options, just option select rh the first two then punish, and her c.fp can be a bit tricky it’s mostly a AA and a grab OS just make sure your rh is meaty and for the most part you avoid this option all together as it usually nets you a free rh. Ok so I won’t go over pin wheels as ts already been covered but ill just add a few things. Lk pinwheel is safe vs viper if spaced properly, and perhaps a mk but rh is very punishable. So pinwheels are mostly used for crossover dead body gimmicks, to end combos, and SUPRISE for AA!! Yes the most prominate use I found for pinwheel is actually as a moving horizontal AA as the hit box for the move is really good. As you all know juri has a dive kick which can be made safe if hit below the waist, well I believe one poster mentioned that c.stng can hit her out of it if that’s so then Lp tk should be the same it’s already a very strong AA might be worth a shot. I haven’t messed around with dive kicks much as there very punishable so basically if it’s not a tk dive punish that shit or better yet AA it. Basically juri should only use her fb for block strings vs viper, after the first initial hit of the fb you can press buttons the release is very slow. Viper really doesn’t need to play footsies but you can if need be I actully find insta bks very useful in this match up if they get real footsie happy. Juri has abnormal normals I would go in depth about the whole normal set but I can’t play the game ATM to give full 100% accurate feed back and I don’t feel like spoon feeding so ya.
P.S: I forgot to mention insta bks would most likely absorb short fb’s as well, and of course you can just frame the others if your feeling your self.
^
Could have sworn even with correct spacing, if anyone blocks low, LK Pinwheel can be punished. I’ll try it out later on.
Some T-Hawk info from Poopclown:
*btw I don’t think the hawk matchup is bad at all. I’m confident that it’s gonna turn out in vipers favour, actually.
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he doesn’t really have any cr.lp combos that knockdown, so you’re only scared of him ticking into a 360. unlike gief where you’re gonna eat EX greenhand combos and get put into another mixup.
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at first he seems dangerous after a blocked condor spire, but he has no safe / consistent options to chase you down if you learn to backdash or jump away.
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mp knuckle can’t be reversal 360’d (AFAIK from testing it in training mode).
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feint all day and punish his attempts to condor dive your seismos.
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gief can stop bks over his head with a lariat. hawk will try AAing with his DP and be beaten out or he’ll block and get frustrated as you walk all over him.
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whiffed condor dive / condor spire into 360 is gimmicky stuff. not a consistent way for him to land damage.
time will tell but it’s not looking good for hawk so far imo*
I haven’t played any T-Hawks with Viper at all, anyone got anything else to say?
As for Juri’s Feng Shui, Juri’s overhead can be combo’d from to deal in the 340+ range, that’s with no meter. They’ll usually start with a low string like cr.lk,>cr.mp and make you guess between a low or the overhead. If they connect the low, like a sweep, they can cancel it into Fuhajin store and make it safe while at the same time stocking a fireball. If it’s a low like cr.mk, they’ll combo off it into Pinwheel or a sweep cancel into Fuhajin store.
If they activate Feng Shui, you can opt to play keep away and drain the time until it wears off, or just get in there and don’t give them breathing space to use it. If she uses Ultra 2, it’s advisable you keep your jumping to a minimum as most of her Ultra combo opportunities come from aerial juggles. Though, you’re not totally safe on the ground either as she can FADC her fireball into Ultra 2 so watch out for that.
I think she can stuff HP TK on wake-up with meaty something, not sure, will have to test.
Blocked condor spires are basically dealt in with in the same way as blocked blanka balls.
It’s also pretty safe to burnkick crossup him unless he has EX meter because the distance on block is too big for him to do 360 I believe.