SSF4 AE C.Viper Match-up Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
521

In a recent video, Valmaster gave some quick tips for the C. Viper matchup.

  • First, as everybody knows, she can punish a whiffed TK with 400+ combos.
  • I will give it a try tonight but punishing cr. Mk, L. Spin Scythe with cr. MK, TK is quite hard, and you will whiff your TK if you miss the timing. Plus it can be made safe at the right distance. He admits using this move a lot against Viper for that precise reason.
  • Crossup BKs work just fine, but she can lower her hurtbox with cr. MP. Need to be confirmed, but it seems she can punish it.
  • She has a good option select on Viper wake-up: cr. MK OS ultra. Beats fierce TK (goes over), burning kick and seismo Ex.
  • She can’t juggle Viper with DP or Ultra after a rhino horn.

I will double check and let you know.

522

Thanks I’ll try again

Also any tips vs seth? I struggle badly vs random seths

523

Against Seth is fairly frustrating. If they are full screen you have to be completely ready to Seismo against his Sonic Booms just like any other fireball character but even more against Seth because the LP version gives him a free teleport mix up, also stay outside of f.s.HP range, and If he spams f.s.HP then just SJ punish it.

If the Seth player doesn’t want to play the long range game or you make him want to advance towards you, then you want to stand at the range where df.HK in the air won’t make your HP TK whiff or beat your c.mk attempting to trip guard him (trying to trip guard is ill advised unless you are sure he won’t delay his jump btw) after feinting a Seismo and dashing; his jump is fairly floaty anyways imo so just wait until he reaches the point in his jump arc where HP TK will always connect.

I find it possible to react to Tandem by jumping a fair amount so if you are able to so that shit is free otherwise you can try and force Seth to play the long range neutral the whole time.

If you like to live dangerously then It’s better to make Seth scared to press buttons rather than applying pressure because of DP / SPD 50 - 50 so c.MK xx EX Seismo is your more optimal whiff punish because of range, but c.HP xx EX Seismo works too. Raw EX Seismos to catch easily telegraphed long range pokes, c.MK xx MP if they aren’t blocking their shins, and max range f.MP to make them antsy and play the high / low 50 -50. Remember to be wait for Seth to make a mistake and not to press too hard because you don’t need to as we can make him bleed really hard.

If you get cornered or knocked down you just have to guess, there’s no way around it. If they do the instant d.MK you can usually FADC forward whatever they choose to follow up with.

If you have him cornered though then n.j.HK is a pretty good all rounder to deal with him trying to jump out including wall jump, and basically same thing don’t press him too hard because you don’t have to.

524

Is the Dudley matchup missing ?

525

what about vs poison match up?.

526

I’m not too sure about Poison since I just lame her out, but she’s a straightforward character. Just watch out for those Jaguar Kick like things and lame her out, she will lose if she tries to keep up with you. Plus she deals like no damage.

527

On the topic of the Elena matchup, care to critique this replay of me vs Elena? I HATE HER.

528

Stop using EX Seismo from full screen when they are still antsy enough to jump. Stop using MP TK to approach, you should only be using that if you know they are likely to jump in a certain scenario.

Stop using MP TK against her and use LP TK. Aside from that just a little bit more baiting with Seismos and more patience, and practice reacting to her EX Scratch Wheel.

529

What to punish ex scratch wheel with?

530

I’m not really sure if you can punish it. I meant just to block high since that’s where her major damage will come from.

531

Vs poison I learned a few things

  • burn kicks will often lose to well placed fireballs

  • do not commit to seismos at mid screen ( closer to beginning of midrange) as poison can flip kick you for doing so

  • zoning does work but know what to do at each spot.

seismo her fireballs on reaction but try not to do it to close or you may trade or lose altogether in the fireball/ seismo scenario

you can hp tk her out of alot of her "pressure strings that lead to her doing fireball at the end. Simply block and then do it after she tries to go for a normal because her fireball will beat hp tk so pay attention to patterns.

just be patient , tech, block and wait for opportunities when she jumps or fireballs at bad spots to punish her to finally land some damage.

532

how do you guys deal with deejay? i dont think the mu is that bad but it gets frustrating when he is up close… i feel like he can just jump in for free

533

well you have to learn to aa his jumpins they definitely arent free hp tk is the answer. you can meaty cr.fp for free on his wake up only thing that beats it is ultra. seismo gameis free until he has meter and you can punish ex dread kick with cr.mpxxwhatever.

534

Let`s start a convo about one of the most frustrating matchups for viper…

Makoto

Same Health, More stun

Same Damag output more ways to land that damage more stun output thanks to Mp.TK nerf

C.MK beats all wakeup options literally have to block or take the command grab.

Jump back fierce blows up burnkicks

In a war of Chaos the output and stun difference makes up for alot

The new makoto Combos are devastating

Lets start up a conversation about this matchup

535

Makoto has 950 health. Viper has 900.

Blocking is good. Makoto’s OS options from her anti-Viper c.MK setups are limited. Occasional backdashing can be a way to escape Makoto’s c.MK pressure / setup.

Everything blows up burnkicks.

Neutral game is tough vs Makoto since seismo zoning is difficult due to her fast dash, jump arc altering axe kick, and U2. Controlling space with footsies only works for so long before Makoto guesses right / gets in. From looking at top Vipers play the matchup, it seems to me that the best course of action is to take advantage of her poor defensive options.

Makoto has 3 main ways to getting in on Viper:

  • jumping / axe kick
  • dash (a really good one)
  • focus attack

She is not going to be walking in and out poke range. Viper has good walkspeed. Although Makoto’s normals are far superior, Viper’s walk speed and mobility can makeup for it. Anti-airing is pretty straight forward. Controlling space is how to handle Makoto’s fast dash. c.MP xx, c.HP xx, or c.MK xx buffers all help control space.

Unfortunately there is not a lot of good footage of top Vipers vs high level Makotos, much less recent ones. Although Chewiie did post a video of some anti-Makoto tech:

Do c.HP xx HP TK feint instead of cs.HP xx HP TK feint. That way, you get a counter hit if Makoto tries to LP fukiage (guessing IA BK).

It’s easy to get blown up when going for oki against Makoto, unless you really know your setups. Meaty IA BK beats LP fukiage, but loses to EX command grab. Non-meaty IA BK beats EX command grab, but loses to LP fukiage. Frame tight safe jumps beat LP fukiage, but lose to EX command grab. LP fukiage has the potential of beating safe jumps that are meant to avoid EX command grab. Grabs are really good against Makoto because of her poor wakeup and bad walkspeed.

f.throw > dash x2 > very slight pause > j.HP beats both LP fukiage and EX command grab.
f.throw > dash > fs.HP late kara SJC > sj.HP beats both LP fukiage and EX command grab. (fs.HP only 97% useless?)

Overall this matchup sucks for Viper. My experience against Makoto is limited as the best Makoto I have played against is Green Ace and he doesn’t even play this game. He’s good though, trust me. He blocked everything; tough to mixup a marvel player.

536

Damn i forgot she has 50 more health also… damn.

Its really bad matchup for viper im considering it being 6-4 or higher I wouldnt push for 7-3 because i mean were viper after all.

No wonder Latif wanted to play Fei long against Haitani at Evo.

Btw Backdash still gets hit by C.MK it covers all options forcing you to block which opens up damage from command grab its just too much.

Great write up floor gotta share more tech

537

Are there any setups or pressure strings/tactics for Viper to force a charge character to lose their charge? Thanks

538

Crossup / non crossup burnkicks is a very good tool to use if they choose to not quickstand.
Also Vipers overhead can be used to switch side and force them to loose charge.

539

I played against Rose quite a lot recently. Ultra 2 definitely kills your momentum, and she’ll often try to push you in the corner by dashing/sliding.
However, if you played your seismo game well, she shouldn’t be too rushy (because of the EX-Seismo treat). Basically you just want her to jump to low TK her on the way down. If the spacing is good, it beats her Ultra clean.

Actually, LP TK has good chances to beat her U2 even when she’s on the ground, if she doesn’t block. Mostly because during the 6 active frames she does not seem to have any hurtbox on her arm. When she’s being extra-careful I just feint a EX-Seismo. It costs one bar but if your opponent has good reactions she will try to jump. (Worked a couple of times against Cammy Ultra 1 as well).

I’m sure most of you already know this but hopefuly it’ll help some others. :slight_smile:

540

One match recorded of me against Sakonoko at Shadowloo Showdown 6 (I know I’m terrible). I learnt a fair amount in those few matches, first thing is people really don’t play Elena to that level, secondly I have no idea what Elena could really do, and lastly why in the world is her range so insane. But on a more serious note Elena’s ways of getting in are not terribly open if you understand where her crouching normals can reach, and the only thing that can really surprise you is EX Mallet Smash, and 3+HK. If you’re not cornered and you are playing neutral against her, being on the receiving end of an EX Mallet Smash is far more dangerous than allowing 3+HK to hit because it pushes you further into the corner and also does what 3+HK gives anyway which is a knockdown to abuse. Aside from that it’s not really like a ‘tough’ match-up, I put quotes on tough because this is one of the match-ups that doesn’t allow Viper to control the ground game to the same extent of her other match-ups. Overall fixed hurtbox makes for an even match-up :slight_smile:

I also got to play against Lingo, Poongko, Gonzales, Gachikun, Kazunoko, and K-Brad (for like two, one match games lol).

I’ll edit this later or make a new post because it’s really late and I want some sleep, but a tl;dr of Yun vs Viper is, don’t make a mistake lol