Makoto can definitely naturally destroy viper. I think you gotta play the player in mu more then the character.
There in lies the problem in tournament you can`t play the player in a 2 game set. Which is why the mu is looking like a hard 6-4 possibly could be worst but then again viper is cheap lol.
so how exactly is one supposed to play the match over then it is really tough I will admit that but I’m still confused as to how the person should play the match up can you please explain
The best advice is go nuts on her quickly before she goes nuts on you its sad to say this… its not an intellectual response but it is what it is you have to control that b*itch
I didn’t, thanks. My friend came back to USF4, so I have one good Rose to play again. Blew up his Chun, then he destroyed me with Rose, so I went scumbag and picked Cammy. I’d rather learn the matchup than switch though.
Just wanted to say I fought iperu on Friday at winter brawl. Definitely have to watch out for any and all q bombs since it got buffed when ultra came out. I oonly took a round off him ( in teams) but still. Have to be patient and bait and punish them.
Other then that its all about trying to getin without falling for fuerte typical back run tortilla traps tthat beat people who try to footsie him. Really good player but definitely showed fuerte has weaknesses.
Be patient dont press rose too hard since she has 1 or 2 moves that avoid bks. Just try and seismo pressure enough to make her jump and anti air her so you can get the rushdown started. Don’t forget her ex soul spiral loses to grabs and it is punishable on block as well. Mix it up well and seismo any soulspark period those aare very easy to hit.
Thanks. 
He knew I didn’t know the matchup and went full stupid.
No problem! Even though she can be a pain in the ass I now think iit’s definitely 5 5 at best for both chars. They both have great pressure on each others moves and great neutral vs one another. Don’t forget if they souls spark make sure you seismo it immediately thats so easy to punish.
Any tips vs rolento? I feel he should be rushed because once hes in he is hard to get him off without eating stupid stuff?
Rolento…I recently played in a recent local tournament losing to chirithy in grandfinals when he switched to rolento to reset the bracket. This matchup seems to be very rushdown orientated and you have to be wary of when rolento has a bar. I believe you can FFF the slide or St.mp,C.mp UItra it. I don`t know if you can punish the rolls or not since vipers normals are quite slow. But you definately have to take control and get on him.
From what I gathered if he does it from too far to close the distance you can cr mp it. his hitbox feels like it gets smaller toward the very end of his move. I believe if you stand block it you can punish it with cr mk but the timing is very very tight. he is -7 and cr mk has 7frame start up so best to practice punishing it in training mode. You can ultra 1 him after a blocked roll too.
Tips against Vegas’s local Juri player? Match starts at 1:26
what are you supposed to do against a good guy? His slide goes under bk and medium/fierce tk and under overhead. His crouch tech is so strong you cant press anything up close. Zoning him is extremely hard since once you guess an elbow drop wrong and wanna seismo on landing you eat a full hk jumpin.
Don’t BK your way against Guy (especially a good one). His hurtbox is just ridiculous. You’ll get whiff punished all day. Plus, it’s a really bad habit.
I’m not sure if it’s the best way to go, but I’m really patient against Guy. A good one simply won’t let you in. I just play the seismo game and wait for a mistake. They usually do a lot of interrupted jumps (with elbow drop) to bait a DP. If you see that he stops his jump midscreen -> ex-seismo (or MP Seismo if you’re sure about the distance. I usually don’t DP his jump attemps from afar because of the Bushin throw. I just wait on the ground and try to react. I only DP if I’m sure that an elbow is coming.
Both his run->slide (-10) and run->overhead (-6) are punishable on block. The slide is pretty fast, but after a little bit of practice the overhead is actually quite easy to react to. I even Ultra it from time to time… When I see him running, I just down block and wait. If he slides, I’m safe, I can react if he overheads, and I’m actually waiting for him to stop. You can Ex-Seismo his run but avoid to do it once he’s past your MP seismo range since overhead can beat it and his slide might come out too fast.
Avoid mashing HP tk. His lows are… well, low and have a good range. You’ll just whiff and get punished badly. If you really have to mash go with Ex-Seismo or LK.Bk (Beats grab and some lows). His sweep is 2 hits and beats Ex-Seismo so be careful.
To be honest I’m quite scared of his DP. It beats a lot of things. I safe jump him and improvise if he DWU. Just test him at first. Try to bait it and see if he goes random. If he doesn’t, teach him respect and make him scared to DP. Careful of his Ultra 2 (1 frame grab). Learn his gimmicks and LK. BK or jump when you think it might be coming. I’d rather take a hit airborne than an Ultra. Don’t get too predictable though.
I hate this matchup, I hate this character, but I managed to get quite a lot of wins recently. Again, this is just personal view. If you find good tips, feel free to share them.
Good material you can use:
**Guy Pressing Tutorial: **
**FT5 Latif - Noxy: **
**Viper punishes on Guy (By Floor): **
**Wolfkrone self-commented match (Quite interesting !): **
Hope it helps.
Thanks mate
Cody was a real salt dispenser today. Any solid tips ? I have an awful time zoning him and once he’s in I see stars. I’m not exactly sure how to approach this matchup. Just like Rose actually… You’re supposed to keep both of them at bay but playing the seismo game with them is a nightmare.
Many people tend to say that he’s free once you figure him out, but I guess I still have quite a way to go.
Not the most concise breakdown on the matchup, but here I use this vid to see where Latif wins various spacings in the matchup.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=cdkWTAu8YCA
I struggle against Cody’s who are good at baiting/punishing and eventually putting me in the the corner.
Once he’s in, he does what? You only get hit if you don’t block. A counter hit combo deals 250+ damage. A throw does 130. He can’t combo from his overhead unless it’s counter hit.
A lot of Cody players do [f.MP followed by a button] xN. Cody’s walk speed sucks, Viper’s doesn’t. You can sometimes just back away from the f.MP pressure. He can tag you low with c.LK xx in this situation, but his buffering options are generally unsafe, except bad stone (which doesn’t combo) and LP criminal upper (which is -4 on block and should help answer your question about c.LP SJC punishes). Essentially, Cody’s pressure isn’t that scary and gives you time to figure out patterns or escape.
Bit late in my answer, haven’t checked this thread in a while
But playing the player in a matchup like this, is mostly catching their bad habits.
Makoto players are like everyone, they have them ( believe me, I have a tons of them lol ) and the best way to beat a Mak player is to frustrate them into bad decision because you abuse something against them. Be it what they wake up with, their tech timing, or when they press buttons, ( Mak players love to press buttons against Viper ) or when they let the ex karakusa go.
There’s a few reference in this thread at " making the match a 1 player game ", and this matchup is a time where you definitely want that.