just started up again. So bad hahaha
The combo I’m talking about is completely practical, requires only 2 bars, and it comes from Viper’s standard counter hit pressure. It is corner specific however out side the corner, she still gets 700+ stun and it’s still super practical.
As far as red focus goes I do feel it is useless for viper thus far. You cant blow through tight block strings since you’re still in block stun, however you can use it to blow up some frame traps, but why would you waste 3 meters for that when you can just use EX Seismo/feint through it?
I could be wrong since I haven’t had to much time with the game to see it’s potential, but for the meter viper has better tools to utilize, that are more flexible and have more utility that are better for the situations red focus would be useful. Viper can already do more damage for less meter so it’s not important for that purpose either.
I also remember reading an article where the capcom development staff stated that red focus was implemented into the game the help beginners/entry level players get big damage easily. This decision was made because they said the game has been out for a while and there where a lot of seasoned players who played this game. Therefore this gameplay mechanic was designed to ease the transition for the newer players getting into the series.
I do think viper is still a great character, it’s not like she got a drastic change in game play like seth did. However I feel that once the rest of the roster is fully fleshed out she could potentially struggle in other match ups.
He most certainly does use select plinking. He uses it with almost every normal.
All hail Sako
How in the world are you supposed to fight makoto? Zoning is almost impossible, once shes in you have to guess between several really bad situations, and one dash gets her in on viper.
Whats worse is bks outside of beating a guessed throw and combos are really bad since she can counter it very easily. Any suggestions? I rage so hard wen I lose to that retarded mu.
Be aggressive, don’t let her play the game she wants, force her to react to what you do, don’t react to what she does.
I’ve been playing c viper for some years now but i still have some “well i lost this one” fights
E honda: i cant punish headbut and i cant jump in with his neutral jump, i think the button is hp, dont know since i dont play with him
M. Bison: when i am applying pressure im ok but as soon ad he starts the scissor kicks pressure i have to guess i cant even jump away
Dhalsim: takes an act of god for me to make it in and when i do i get thrown out, Slide>throw even though i thought slide was like -8
vega: pokes are gdlk(to me i acknowledge in not the greatest so it may just be me)
any help would be great thanks
Vs sim do not try to immediately rush him he wins mid range but loses at far range and upclose. Pressure him with seismos get the and go in that way. Once your In its all 50 50s from here on out. Use grabs, tick throws, frame traps , burn kicks that are cross ups, above the head, in front,basically everywhere. Use over heads as well.
It should not take long at all to kill sim once your hitting him. Also if you score a grab whether its foward or back make sure to OS mp seismo to beat his teleport. I believe mk bk works too but seimos the better option.
If hes like mid range or closer just block his slides beat all seismos so dont bother mashing ex seismo if he is within slide range.
Vs bison try your best to be patient and get an opening. Once your in be sure to cross him up alot, bait out psycho crushers and os mp seismo if he likes to teleport on wake up. Defense wise just be patient and block/tech. Dont try to jump back unless you know damn well he is gonna scissor kick because his job is to annoy the hell out of by keeping you pinned down in the corner. Here is a list of things he does.
- scissor kick wait scissor kick
If he does this you can jump back and punish him
-cr lk xx scissor kick wait st hk
lp tk beats st hk and most of her other low attacks
-scissor kick wait head stomp.
if you know he will do this just block. You can try to punish him on the way down but he canchange his trajectory which makes it a guessing fame of how orif you can punish dont recommend it.
In the neutral game focus beats slides. Hp tk beats psycho crushers. Ex scissor kicks on block is very punishable use cr mk xx mp tk or anything else within reach he is minus 8 if its ex. Well placed bks on his wake up beats his psycho crushers. His st hk beats bks so dont be predictable.
Vs honda this matchup is definitely even now. Be patient do not do random bks when he is not within crossup range he beats them. If he does hp headbutt always stand block it and do reversal mp tk. You must stand because crouching block pushes her back to far and makes it impossible to punish him. If he does ex headbutt ( thanks to nerf) block it and punish with anything you want examples ( ultra, cr mk xx tk, cr hp xx mp tk, cr hp xx ex seismo into whatever the list goes on). Pressure him with seismos and be patient just like sim honda wins mid range has answers to bks so just take your time to get in.
thank you soooooo much bro this helps so much
No problem I hate sim and bison with a passion so gotta know how to fight them
Played around in training mode briefly to figure out punishes against Rolento since someone was asking.
vs Rolento:
Rolento can cr.Forward to low profile Burn Kicks so be careful when attempting BK mix ups on him.
Delta Attack (PPP, P/PP) - For an easier time to punish this special you should block it standing because it causes less push back. You can punish Jab/Strong/Fierce version on block with Ultra. It doesn’t need to be reversal timing but if you wait too long you’ll miss the punish. You can’t punish the EX version with Ultra as the 3rd hit onwards of the Ultra will whiff. Rolento needs to be in the air (after the bounce) during the Ultra flash for this to be a punish. Jab and Fierce versions can also be punished on block with cr.Forward xx Strong Thunder Knuckle. The strong thunder knuckle will not combo if you block the Strong or EX version for some weird reason. The timing on cr.Forward punish after blocking the Strong and Ex version seems tighter than the other versions.
The Roll has no invincibility on it so you can hit him out of it if you time it right but it’s pretty difficult and harder than hitting a Blanka Ball, imo. From farther ranges you can use Strong or EX Seismo to hit Rolento while he’s rolling towards you. The other thing you can do is time a very low BK just as he reaches you. He’ll recover in time to block the BK but depending on the timing of your BK he’ll cross himself up. The BK option is riskier because depending on your timing he could recover in time and low profile the BK with cr.Forward and punish you after wards.
Some Rolento’s like to OS crouch tech with Delta Attack (cr.Short+PPP) because the initial hop has a few frames of invincibility so it’ll avoid throws and some frame traps. I haven’t tested this yet but I’m thinking you could OS Strong TK or EX Seismo to beat Rolento’s OS. I know you can punish the initial hop back of Delta Attack with EX Seismo but not sure if an OS EX Seismo will have the right timing.
EDIT: I tested some OS options against this and you can OS s.Short/cr.Strong into cr.RH, Strong TK, or EX Seismo to beat the Delta Attack crouch tech OS. The OS into EX Seismo is tricky because you have to be fast in your OS or you could end up throwing one out if s.Short is blocked and if you mistime the OS you won’t punish the Delta Attack hop and risk eating Delta attack altogether. The Strong TK also needs fast timing on the OS otherwise it could come out with s.Short is blocked. There’s enough active frames on Strong TK to punish the Delta Attack hop regardless of timing. The cr.RH is the easiest to OS with and consistent with punish the Delta Attack hop.
EX Delta Escape - This is Rolento’s only reversal after getting knocked down because it’s the only special that has enough invincibility frames on start up. It’s actually a really bad reversal in general because he has to go off the wall and then back towards you. You don’t need to OS it as it’s pretty slow. You can react to it with super jump Fierce to beat him after he goes off the wall. It’s trickier if Rolento is in the corner.
Patriot Circle (qcf+P x 3) -
Jab Version:
1st Hit: Safe on block
2nd Hit: Point blank cr.Strong, cr.Strong xx Strong TK/SJC Ultra or s.Jab, s.Strong, cr.Strong xx Strong TK/SJC Ultra. At max range, cr.Strong xx Strong TK/SJC Ultra.
3rd Hit: Ultra or FFF combo
Strong Version:
1st Hit: Point blank cr.Strong, cr.Strong xx Strong TK/SJC Ultra or s.Jab, s.Strong, cr.Strong xx Strong TK/SJC Ultra. Max range, cr.Strong xx Strong TK/SJC Ultra.
2nd Hit: Same as above.
3rd Hit: Ultra or FFF combo.
Fierce Version:
1st Hit: Point blank cr.Strong, cr.Strong xx Strong TK/SJC Ultra or s.Jab, s.Strong, cr.Strong xx Strong TK/SJC Ultra. Max range, cr.Strong xx Strong TK/SJC Ultra.
2nd Hit: Same as above.
3rd Hit: Ultra or FFF combo.
Ex Version: Ultra or cr.Strong xx Strong TK/SJC Ultra
Safe jump for Poison after fwd throw:
Dash, mpTK feint (w/QCB buffered during the dash), sj.FP
Seems like we should be able to use fpTK feint w/o a buffer but I wasn’t able to get it to work for whatever reason. I kept getting hit out of it.
how to burn kick vortex Hugo in a way where he cannot backbreaker you out of it?
From my personal experience against Hugo, I don’t think you should BK too often in this match up. I usually just zone him out with seismo and play footsies with him. Most Hugo’s I faced would do that move where they can fly across the screen because they believe im going to BK after a blocked seismo or do another seismo. When they do that I get a free punish. Sometimes I go for cross up BK off hard knockdown’s or during a blockstring but as I said before I don’t BK often in this match. Being in Hugo face all day isn’t a good thing. Im trying to learn Viper matchups and so far against Hugo thats what I do. That back breaker move is scary!
Jab Thunder Knuckle is a godsend in the Hugo match. It goes under so much and can even anti air if the Hugo player throws out his attack a little to early. You always want to hit with the tip of a TK though as he can punish with his grounded ultra.
How do you beat rose I can’t can’t zone het bc of her jump arc
Also her air throw beat vortex and her footsies are way better shr basically beats viper everywhere
for rose after landed bk i sj then lk bk directly over her head so if she air grab she gets hit. max range seizemo games, I dont know exactly buy i think its mp>soul spiral, its not a true blockstring so you can hp tk or or ex seizemo out of it
After Luffy won Evo I decided to play around in training mode to figure out aspects of the Rose match up. I remember writing details about the match up during Super SF4 but I haven’t revisited the match up details since then.
Neutral Game:
Rose’s primary pokes consist of her far cr.Strong, far s.Forward, close s.Forward, far s.RH, cr.RH, f+RH, and df+Forward (Slide). In general her normals out ranges Viper’s normals so it’s actually difficult for Viper to play a ground game against her. Her dashes are fast and cover long distances making it difficult to play a Seismo zoning game against her. Rose also has tools to shut down Viper’s Burn Kick game. These aspects make things difficult for Viper but it requires good understanding of both characters tool sets to work this match up.
Rose’s cr.Strong is her primary poking normal at close range. It has 4f start up making it faster than Viper’s best pokes and has more range than her cr.Strong. During the up close footsie game you want to be at cr.Forward’s max range, which is just outside of Rose’s cr.Strong range. It allows you to whiff punish her cr.Strong on reaction but don’t cancel into Thunder Knuckles after wards as they’ll usually whiff. You want to fish for a counter hit cr.Forward and special cancel into EX Seismo as it’ll combo on CH. You can use Viper’s overhead (f+Strong) to also go over her cr.Strong. The other normal that’s good for whiff punishing is a max ranged cr.Fierce but when your using this normal as a whiff punish you’re using it in anticipation of the attack and not by reaction. The main thing you need to keep in mind is that Rose’s cr.Strong is -3 on block allowing you to counter poke if the Rose player doesn’t commit to a special cancel after wards. There’s a mind game that comes with this that’s very similar to Viper’s but I’ll get into this later.
The issue with playing footsies against Rose’s cr.Strong is that she can switch to her s.Forward pokes instead which changes the footsie game. Rose’s far and close s.Forward put her airborne for a few frames so they actually go over your cr.Forward and can evade Seismo’s though it’s hard to do this on reaction. The range on these attacks are about the same as her cr.Strong. You can actually whiff punish the far s.Forward with cr.Fierce but again this is something you’ll do in anticipation to the attack rather than on reaction.
All of her RH pokes out range Viper’s pokes but they have lengthy recovery times. Whiff punishing with Viper’s normals is pretty difficult given the range you need to be at. Rose’s far s.RH puts her off the ground as well and like her standing Forward normals can evade cr.Forward and Seismo’s. Again, cr.Fierce is something you can use to whiff punish the attacks but in anticipation and not really on reaction.
If Rose’s slide (df+Forward) is improperly spaced it’s -6 on block and can be punished with cr.Strong xx Strong Thunder Knuckle/SJC Ultra. I’m not sure what’s the frame data on block at max range but it’s definitely not punishable on block and it can lead into tick throw games for her. The slide can low profile your Burn Kicks on approach as well.
In general, you can use Jab and Strong Thunder Knuckle during the footsie game against all of these normals. Some can be whiff punished by thunder knuckles while others will force the Rose player to rethink their pokes.
Rose’s projectiles are slow on start up and recovery so you can play the Seismo game if the Rose player wants to play a zoning game. Try to use Seismo, SJC Focus (hold) to prevent taking unnecessary damage from the fireballs and build up some Ultra meter. You can use TK Burn Kicks to go over the fireball, Jab Thunder Knuckles to go under the fireball, and F+Strong (Overhead) to go over the fireball. TK Burn Kicks and Jab Thunder Knuckles can possibly punish Rose or at the very least force her to block and stop her momentum. Most Rose players won’t bother with the zoning game because of Viper’s counter fireball abilities.
Punishes:
Short Soul Spiral is extremely punishable on block at close range. It’s -8 on block making it punishable by Ultra 1 with reversal timing. You can also go for a cr.Fierce xx EX Seismo/Thunder Knuckle punish but that’s 1 frame timing. The most reliable punish is cr.Strong xx Thunder Knuckle/SJC Ultra. If they space this at max range then it’s safe on block.
Forward and EX Soul Spiral are punishable on block at close range. They’re -6 on block so the main punish option you have is cr.Strong xx Thunder Knuckle/SJC Ultra.
RH Soul Spiral is -4 on block at close range. You’ll only have a 1 frame punish with s.Jab, cr.Strong xx Thunder Knuckle/SJC Ultra.
Much like Viper, Rose’s main poke string is cr.Strong xx Soul Spiral. However, this is not a true block string unless she does cr.Strong xx Short Soul Spiral at point blank range but if she does that and it’s blocked she’s extremely punishable. So the Rose player is looking to space her cr.Strong at farther ranges to make Soul Spiral safer on block or use RH Soul Spiral because it’s the least disadvantage on block. Since this isn’t a true block string you can punish in between cr.Strong and Soul Spiral with Fierce Thunder Knuckle, EX Seismo, or even Ultra 1. If you try FTK or Ultra 1 to punish you’ll leave yourself open if they don’t cancel into Soul Spiral. EX Seismo is the safest if the opponent just opts to block but if they stagger a second cr.Strong you’ll get counter hit out of EX Seismo. This is very similar to how Viper can trick people to try a reversal in between cr.Strong/Forward xx Thunder Knuckle by utilizing TK feints. It’s actually hard to eye ball which version of Soul Spiral she’s doing so it makes optimally punishing her difficult. If the Rose player suspects an interrupt between the cr.Strong xx Soul Spiral she can easily do Soul Spark instead which would catch FTK or EX Seismo.
Understanding the frame data of Soul Spiral and the distance that each version travels is helpful in determining when and where you can punish. For example, it’s unlikely that the Rose player will cancel their cr.Strong into Soul Spiral if they’re close to you and they’re at -3 after the cr.Strong so there’s an opportunity to counter poke with your cr.Strong at that moment. If they attempt to do another cr.Strong to put themselves at a distance where Soul Spiral is safer than they’ll get counter hit. If they’re reaching at maximum range with their cr.Strong then you can anticipate on an incoming Soul Spiral and try to punish in between the block string.
Option Selects:
Rose’s back dash is one of her escape tools and she can cover a lot of ground with multiple back dashes allowing her to reset to neutral. Your most consistent way to punish the back dash is OS cr.RH. So after a knockdown you’ll want to aim for a meaty cr.Short, s.Short, j.RH and just OS cr.RH to beat the back dash. This OS won’t cover wake up EX Soul Spiral.
EX Soul Spiral is strike and projectile invincible but is no longer throw invincible. To deal with a wake up EX Soul Spiral after a knockdown you can OS throw from a meaty cr.Short, s.Short, or j.RH. This OS won’t cover wake up back dash.
Offense/Oki:
Viper’s Burn Kick game is not completely free on Rose. Rose can low profile Burn Kicks with her cr.Forward and df+Forward (Slide) leaving Viper open to punishment. I don’t recommend using Burn Kicks as a way to approach Rose during the neutral game. On top of Rose being able to low profile them she can use Focus Attack, f+RH, neutral j.Fierce, cr.Fierce, Ultra 1&2, and Soul Throw to anti-air the Burn Kick on reaction. All of these are bad for you since the increased damage and juggle properties she received in Ultra can add up the damage quickly. You’ll want to use really low Burn Kicks when you have Rose blocking or during Oki, as she won’t be able to low profile or back dash out but she can do an auto-correct EX Soul Throw to beat this. Anything that requires a TK Burn Kick has some risk to it.
You want to minimize how much you want to do cr.Strong/Forward xx Thunder Knuckle. Thunder Knuckle puts you at -2 on block and Rose’s pokes are faster than yours so you can’t apply pressure after wards otherwise you’ll get counter hit. There’s also the possibility that she’ll back dash to reset to neutral so you’re in a guessing game that’s not to your advantage. You want to keep the Rose player guessing on what you’ll do after a blocked cr.Strong/Forward much like she’ll do to you. The plus side is that Viper has so many options after a blocked normal utilizing her feint cancels so you can keep her guessing more than she can keep you guessing. Just vary it up as much as possible and make the corresponding reads.
After soft and hard knock downs you’ll want to use a combination of option selects and low Burn Kicks to keep the pressure on Rose and prevent her from resetting to neutral.
Watch out how you space meaty Seismo’s after a knockdown. EX Soul Spiral can be used as a punish against meaty Seismo’s that are spaced too closely. You can bait this out with Seismo feint into a neutral jump and really punish the Rose player hard for attempting the punish.
Defense:
Rose doesn’t have great post knock down mix ups but she has a few basic mix ups that are effective. After knockdowns or after a forward dash she’ll force a guessing game of close s.Forward or throw. The close s.Forward is throw invulnerable during the first 20 frames and puts her airborne. If you try to stand tech, immediate crouch tech, or Burn Kick you’ll get hit by close s.Forward and then she can combo into cr.Strong xx Soul Spiral after wards (unless you get hit out of the air during BK). You can challenge the close s.Forward with EX Seismo or Fierce Thunder Knuckle. Depending on the timing of close s.Forward it may beat EX Seismo.
Rose can go for a cross-up j.Forward after a knock down, which will beat wake up Fierce Thunder Knuckle and EX Seismo. You’ll have to block accordingly and look for a chance to escape her pressure after wards.
Rose’s Ultra 2 is a complete momentum killer and forces a momentum shift mid match. You can try to thread the needle and poke her in between the orbs but it’s really difficult and risky if you get hit. You’re looking to try and poke when the Orbs are at Rose’s 12:00 and 6:00 or at her 3:00 and 9:00. If you have enough life you can try to mitigate the damage by poking at one of these times and cancel into Strong Thunder Knuckle. You’ll get hit by one of the orbs but it’s not enough to allow Rose to combo off of due to spacing. At half Ultra the Orbs don’t last as long so you can try to play defense and wait it out. You can try using EX Seismo to catch Rose if she tries to dash or walk in for pressure. Chaining Seismo’s and EX Seismo’s is another tactic you can use to keep Rose from advancing and help wear down the time.
At full Ultra meter, Soul Satellite lasts for 600 frames (10 seconds) and you’ll have to deal with her offensive pressure. Rose’s throw range is longer than most characters so she can actually stand just outside of where the Orbs would force a hit and throw you. This makes things really difficult and forces a 50/50 game because if you try to crouch tech you’ll get hit by the orbs but if you try to avoid this you’re susceptible to the throw. She can then start throwing in close s.Forward into the mix to really punish throw tech attempts. It’s usually better to eat the throw then eat the counter tech combo but the damage can add up either way so it’s tough. Rose can also use Soul Throw to force a 50/50 game between cross ups and fake cross ups but this is usually done after a knockdown. If Rose corners you she can try to force a flinch with a level 3 focus attack. I’m not really sure what the escapes are outside of getting hit by an orb at the last minute or trying to get hit in the air by the orbs. If they’re charging the focus then stand block to make your hit box as small as possible because crouching extends your hit box.
Keep an eye on Rose’s meter as she gains meter quickly and can pretty much gain super once a round. In combination with Ultra 2, Rose actually has good tools to make a come back so be aware of this.
EDIT: Here are some long sets between Latif and Luffy at Evo2k14. You can see where Latif struggles in the match up and where he excels. The spacing game is really important and Rose’s mobility options make it difficult for Latif to find his optimal spacing.
Can we do a better job of compiling matchup information? It seems like every couple months someone comes in here asking for bipson advice.
How the heck do you keep Blanka from doing whatever h wants