Ugh! Fucking Decapre is super annoying to me lol. How are you guys handling her so far?
how do you guys deal with people who want to jump back all day until you get close then jump over you and do it again?
Go to the character select screen
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You heard it here first, folks.
(actually, I didn’t check facebook - maybe you ranted there before you came here, lols)
I don’t understand you Krone, no other pro viper is complaining, everyone say she’s looking amazing. She only got a few stun ouput nerf because otherwise she would get 100% stun combo with red focus.
Yeah except they didn’t tweak stun on Evil Ryu and Yun all the time. It’s just pure shit in that regard, and those characters have better buttons than Viper for god’s sake! People seem to forget that her stun potential was what made her so scary in the first place, her damage was secondary. Let’s not forget from AE to 2012, her stun potential was nerfed once more. Now in this version, I find it very hard to stun people even when I land a red focus combo.
Her cr.mk doesn’t combo into mp.tk from max range making players weary about whiffing a mp.tk and getting punished for it. It get’s worse when you fight against the new characters, god help you those hitboxes are going to fuck you up.
And back to the red focus combo that everyone keeps clamoring about, at really stupid ranges the focus whiffs entirely! I don’t know why it happens all the time, but it’s happened to me about 5-6 times off of what I’d guess is a max range mp.tk mostly against ner characters like poison and hugo (but i’ve had it happen against yun and others). Whiffing a red focus is just horrible, not only you probably whiffed what was going to be close to a game winning combo, but you lost all of your meter. The combo everyone thought was going to fuck everyone up was using the extra range of her cr.mk into mp tk (which isn’t even 100% reliable) into a red focus that also isn’t 100% reliable! What the fuck.
Given they nerfed her stun to balance out what they thought would be too powerful (red focus combos) and the hitboxes not working 100%, I think she’s exactly the same tier placement wise as last version. Some matchups are better than before (Deejay, Honda), others are a lot worse ( Guy, Yun, Yang, Zangief, Hawk etc).
Which sucks a lot. Her 2012 version was probably the most unfun character I’ve ever played, and now she’s almost the same. I have more fun playing a shitty character like Poison than her, at least her offense isn’t negated by characters who press 1 button and low profile everything, destroying any offensive momentum you have. Man screw it. I’ve always predicted since Vanilla that there would be a time this character would be obsolete, and now is that time. I’ll retract everything when there’s a Viper player that beats Infiltration or wins a international major.
What you are saying is burn kick is 100% of Viper’s offense. Seismo and most of her pokes can’t be low profiled. Wait for tut or…
You clearly didn’t see when Jayce did a super jump cross up and infiltration just low profiled and punished him horribly he also had a 3 frame dip, teleport, etc. Pokes and seismos cant be low profiled but good luck getting a hit with those against one of the most mobile characters in the game. LOL
All of the new characters hurt boxes are messed up. I noticed that cr.Fierce whiffs on Poison when attempting to do FFF and you start with s.Fierce.
Yeah, Poison’s got a weird hitbox, someone’s got a video where Oni’s stuff was missing on her. FFF starting with standing fierce also doesn’t seem to work on Decapre. She has a hitbox glitch where certain moves whiff when she’s on the 2P side, might be related to that.
Apologies if known, but before the game’s release, they said they were gonna give Viper 10 more points of damage on her standing fierce. Well, they’ve reverted that, both standing and crouching fierce are 90.
Poison is weird, it’s like she reels back from being hit so far it’s almost like she backdashes.
Fired up Ultra SF4 (Or any SF4 game for that matter) for the first time in a long time. Played a Rolento and Decapre… had some troubles against Rolento, but Decapre wasn’t too bad I thought.
What are the current match strategies for Viper against Rolento/Decapre/Hugo etc?
lol
When did you start playing again? I haven’t seen you since Vanilla SF4 days.
Your exaggerating, viper is fine. She can do 835 stun from 1 combo, I think her stun out put is fine and her damage is still there.
Anyhow here’s some things I’ve noted for Ultra viper:
Viper’s “accidental” super problem is more prevalent than ever in this version. With full meter you can’t do multiple Thunder Knuckle feints without getting a super, so unless you have PLink feints down expect to blow 1 EX bar in neutral.
Red Focus is useless IMO for viper, red focus is more for entry level viper players.
Focus is good at punishing unsafe stuff.
3 RH is a god send! Thank you capcom for listening to my suggestion on making it a command normal.
She’s still strong but there’s a lot of changes to the game that will probably make her weaker over time.
This is day 3 Ultra for me so far.
You say I’m exaggerating but you basically agreed with me that her red focus isn’t nearly as good as people think it is.
I mean technically I can get 886 stun if I get a jump in do FFF ex seismo sjc mp tk ex burn kick x3 in the corner but how often will that happen? I mean if you want to get into dumb theoretical situations that arent likely to happen, Poison can stun stun seth in the corner with a single combo but it’s hard as shit to do, but I’m not going to say her stun game is better than viper as a whole.
The whole point was that I thought it was stupid her stun game was nerfed in comparison to Yun and Evil Ryu who wasn’t even touched. Yun’s stun game off of red focus is even higher than viper off of a standard poke special confirm into rfc. Evil Ryu does more damage AND stun off of a low forward that doesn’t even use RFC at all! It’s stupid as hell in comparison that Capcom would think their stun and damage wasn’t overpowered yet they thought viper was. But I could say the same with alot of their idiotic decisions as of late like the whole existance of Deejay in this game is a mystery.
Anyway we seem to agree she’ll get worse as the game progresses. Her super input is the stupidest thing, don’t ever mash hp thunder knuckle ever again or you’ll pay the consequences…
Red Focus is not a useless tool. It’s an extra tool that’s available to you to counter certain block strings, or an extra damage possibility from a footsie normal.
Evil Ryu high stun is well deserved because he’s a footsie based character and the stun combo itself requires an FADC and multiple one frame links. He’s more execution intensive then Viper, imo.
The nerf on her stun game is not going to be a significant impact to her. You should be thankful that she got a ton of buffs when she could have easily been nerfed to the ground with the constant complaints she gets for being random.
I don’t think it’s useless, just highly overrated from the amount of idiots clamoring she’d be broken when they don’t even bring up yun and evil ryu’s stun output being higher. Guess they don’t run any tests themselves. Also given they don’t even play the character so they are unaware of the hitbox issues with that combo.
This is seriously the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard. What are you going to say next? Yun’s ex lunge punch +1 on block is well deserved because Yun has a hard time getting in? Why the hell should a footsie character get insane amounts of stun? What about Ryu, or fuck, Balrog? That’s the whole reason why it’s stupid. Not only he has a true block string off of his low forward, he can buffer it into axe kick and completely demolish opponents if they’re not careful. He also has fireballs, a 3 frame uppercut, a teleport, a dive kick, great focus range etc. That’s way too much for what he can do. Not only that, this character has HIGHER life than Viper. There’s no way he deserves to have that many tools. So you’re saying that’s it’s ok for a character to not only have the tools to play a great zoning game, and have an insane footsie frame trap game is fair? You can’t have great options for everything.
Giving characters insane tools at the cost of high execution isn’t an excuse and will never be an excuse. It wasn’t for Viper when people complained about her high damage output. I don’t see why I should hold Evil Ryu for a different standard, hell that combo is easy as shit with select plinking which lets face it, this is 2014. It’s been 4 years since select plinking was discovered, and if you’re not doing it, you’re a bum.
It’s stupid as hell how many people complained about Viper. I remember I said back in AE that Sakura was stupid and overpowered. Nobody believed me until AE2012 came out and Chris G started winning with her, and the minute that happened is when everyone started to hate that character. The same with Akuma when everyone complained about Cammy, but nope same shit. I’m no top player but damn I’ll say I have better foresight of what’s going to be OP soon. People are just too quick to do a knee jerk response to anyone who’s winning. Then again, it is mostly the US that does complain about Viper, everywhere else she doesn’t do nearly as well at top level tourneys.
To me, the most ridiculous thing about this is whole situation is this, whenever someone wins or does well at a large international tournament like EVO, SBO, Capcom Cup even, they reward said winner for making their character shittier the next version. Why? Because there’s no way in hell the player won based off of his skill alone maybe. Sako won Capcom Cup with Evil Ryu? Guess what? He got even buffed further. Kazunoko’s Yun was on the winning team at SBO, but he got overbuffed yet again…
Don’t get me wrong, as I’m no fan of Capcom. Their bad business and game design decisions have led me to play other fighting games over SF4. However, you’re making Viper sound like she’s a bad character when she isn’t. Before you complain about the character you have to look at the perspective of other characters.
Don’t take things out of context. Evil Ryu was designed to be a glass cannon much like how Viper is designed. Ryu and Balrog don’t get the same privilege as Evil Ryu because their game play design is different and their footsie normals are better. Ryu and Balrog are also a circumstance of them getting nerfed to the ground because of how dominant they were in Vanilla SF4 because of knee jerk nerfs as you described.
Evil Ryu’s primary footsie normals are slow (cr.Forward is 7f just like Vipers and Vipers has more range on her cr.Forward) but he gets to capitalize off of it with 2 bars. He doesn’t have the mobility options that rush down characters have. He’s designed to do high bursts of damage by out playing the opponent in the neutral game. If you suck at footsies, zoning, and execution you’re going to lose with him regardless of his tool set.
How is a true block string with low forward xx fireball stupid? Viper’s cr.Forward xx TK not being a true block string works for her just as much as it works against her because she can feint the TK.
None of the tools you listed for Evil Ryu are insane. Having a fireball doesn’t make him a better character, the teleport is slow and punishable, and the dive kick is not as good as you’re making it out to be. I’ll agree that given those tools, good focus, 3f dp, and high damage/stun output he’s doing more than he probably should. He’s probably considered unfair given that he’s seen as a top tier character in Ultra.
I would consider having the tools for a good zoning game, footsie game, and a frame trap game would be fair because that’s exactly what normal Ryu has. You probably didn’t word this correctly but the only thing that makes Evil Ryu insane with those tools is his ability to get more mileage from it, which makes Ryu obsolete because he’s essentially a better version of Ryu now (probably why Daigo switched to him).
However, we can spin Viper’s tool set to make her sound insane as well. The only reason we don’t consider her insane is because we understand the weaknesses to her tool sets but she’s definitely above average and she’s a character that gets away with more things than other characters do.
Okay, I’ll give you this. High execution shouldn’t be used an excuse but there should be some reward for a player who puts in the time to increase their execution. Also, Sako doesn’t use select plinking so is he a bum?
Some complaints about Viper are valid while others are people QQing. People in general will complain as soon as characters start becoming dominant and the meta starts to stagnate. Granted, the same few people winning with their character is not an indication that the character is OP but is often seen that way as you said.
Fei Long flew under the radar until Mago showed the world how good he was at the tail end of Super’s life span. It was so late in Super that Capcom inadvertently buffed him in AE. Also, Ultra Yun was looking to get nerfed even further than his AEv2012 version and then someone in Capcom decided to reverse that decision and revert a lot of the nerfs he received from AE.