SSF4 AE C.Viper Match-up Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
401

Aiight, please excuse the extra shitty quality but this is how it works off of FFF sweep. It also shows escape options. The same kind of jump timing works for the back throw somewhat but I can post a video of that as well. If you can’t really tell what’s going on I’ll try and upload a better video of it next time. Just trying to give you an idea though. My training partner is also a really good Ryu so I’m pretty familiar with that matchup. The Ryu you play against most of the time is Joel, right?

[media=youtube]OK6fcbymruE[/media]

402

Yeah i play joel… And id says the video is private >.<

403

my bad. try it now.

404

The average guile and pro guiles feel like two totally different MUs… Any help on this Mu?

405

I approach this match up very lame. Viper can out-zone Guile decently. Or rather Viper can only zone out Guile. Assuming we are talking about good Guile players, they will anti-air you all day.

Seismo chains aside, you just beat him in the damage department. Regular seismo does 120 on hit and 30 chip. EX does 100 and 25 chip. Guile’s booms deal significantly less. Regular does 50 on hit and 15 chip. EX does 100 on hit and 24 chip. Even if you trade, it is still in your favor for both damage and position. Depending on the timing, Viper can seismo (hit guile as he throws boom) > SJC seismo feint (block or jump over the boom the boom). If there isn’t time to cancel into feint, you can SJC into focus attack and absorb the boom.

Seems simple enough but zoning good Guile players can be rough. Although if you land anything in the corner, you unblockable him to death.

406

I just wrote like 4-5 paragraphs on the Dudley matchup 'cause I didn’t see any info on him. Then my computer went stupid. All that text lost… … So I’ll have to try to retype this without breaking my keyboard, guys.

… Anyways… I’ve only gotten serious with SSF4 and picked up C. Viper just after the summer of 2012. I’ve sparred with my friend who uses Dudley. Most of the info I have is based on experience. He’s not a noob who spams duck, machine gun blow or short swing blow. He walks in. You should be able to punish all of that if you see the player likes to use those tools in footsies. But to start this off proper…

Dudley has a good stamina/stun rating. He also can dish out that damage and mix you up, so essentially the match can end with Dudley or Viper having perfects. Some footsies are involved but what you’re both aiming for is a knockdown. Combo, setup/mixup, combo, dizzy, finish the round.

You mostly don’t want him near you, 'cause his mixup game is pretty risky to let yourself fall under. I would play the seismo game with him till he manages to even get mid range. Don’t try random mid range BK’s 'cause he can anti air with his high priority normals. His st.HP and F+HP (Step Straight) are something to respect. They’re fast mid range pokes and have a great hitbox and priority, but you can FADC through it or L.TK under it to punish. Obviously if he’s focus happy you want to tag him with TK. However, if you start to abuse raw TK pokes he can react with a cr.MK which nets him a knockdown. But if he throws it out there and misses you you should be able to punish it because it has a long animation. Duds’s cr.MK is -6 on block, and he is at a horrendous frame disadvantage if you block a random cr.HK. A good Dudley will try to walk in and close the gap while being patient. Punish every chance you get. The footsies with this MU can make for serious mindgames.

He has a great mixup game. What makes him scary is that his fast overhead and low (cr.LK) can both convert into big combos. He has a 3 frame jab and his F+MK moves him forward to close the gap while giving him frame advantage (+3 on block). You’ll have to react accordingly and look for any patterns. His F+MK that is just so good snort actually has an 8 frame start up, so you can throw him out of it if it’s close enough. Don’t be afraid to throw him out of his overhead, too. Learn how he applies his pressure. Also he’ll very much like to counter poke you with st.HK, which has a 4 frame startup according to eventhubs. That’s just unreal o.- But the reason is because he’ll be buffering into EX MGB, which will really hurt. Honestly I HP TK out of high pressure situations fewer than I throw him out of pressure. It’s almost kind of funny.

If he happens to get a knockdown on you, a good Dudley player will try to limit your options. Viper’s wakeup options aren’t even amazing to begin with so it’ll be rough. If he knows his Short Swing Blow setups, don’t try to use any reversals except for EX BK I think, but the rest all be beat clean. The best chance you have is a more horizontal attack like MP TK or normal if you see it coming as it will hit him out of the SSB setup. You can backdash out of it too, but EX SSB will punish you if you backdash. Assuming he mistimes his setup or does something else EX BK is your best bet for a reversal. Do not ever use EX seismo as you wake up. If he knows you’re backdashing out of his pressure too much he can punish you with a Step Straight or EX MGB from further away.

His anti airs are just gdlk. A good Dudley will hit you out of the air with st.MK (I believe it’s st.MK) because it comes out fast and has a great hitbox. It will hit you out of most jump ins and even in situations that’ll make you go “wtf”… If he sees a BK coming he can hit you out of it with half his other normals and also use cr.MK to sweep you out of it I think. If he isn’t anti airing you as much, or thinks his only trust AA tool is his DP, feel free to go crazy, 'cause you can bait that. Thankfully you can safe jump him with standard setups, though I think the standard safe jumps can be beat by Dudley’s super/Ultra 2(Corkscrew Toss?). He also earns a KD when he hits you with jump roundhouse (out of backdash, jump, jump trade), so be wary of it. Anti air as much as you can with HP TK obviously and st.HK when spaced correctly. Close MK also hits him when directly above your head. But his real strength is in his ground game.

Apparently, new tech keeps piling up on youtube for Dudley, and I haven’t played with my friend in a while. But next time we have another set I’ll be sure to add any more useful info on the MU.

I’m tired. Good day, sirs.

407

WHen i play Dieminion and knuckle du lame… I end up dead in the corner :frowning: i do the best when use alot of random sj burn kicks( hate playing like that) even though in my opinion its scrubby and easy to exploit… It works… Is there any other approach you guys can think of? and for some reason when i talk to other vipers about zoning with footsies? im think c.mp is super powerful in this MU but thats just theory >.<

408

ive never played a guile as good as dieminion or knuckle du but generally i try to read a sonic boom and do sjc burnkick. you probably hate playing like that but its neceserry in that mu. what other tool are you going to have to get in? its hard to zone guile too because you cant reaction seismo to the start up and you have to make a read. of coarse he can air throw you and get a safe jump so thats kind of risky but a wrong read on a seismo and you eat a jump in. probably want to mix up lp tk, overhead over sonic booms in too. the mu is alot harder than ppl think but definitely winnable. its important to pay attention to when guile has charge and when he doesnt, its also important to keep in mind if hes looking to zone you out all day or if hes looking for a seismo and trying to jump in on you. i always think cr.rh is underrated in terms of footsies when you look at ricky and justin they make great use of rufus’s cr.rh… viper’s cr.rh has the same start up frames as rufus’s and has better range but people are more likely to jump in at you because they think you’re going to seismo them. still a great button that will catch people off guard because nobody expects it.

409

I tend to play the match vs Guile passive aggressively. I’ve never played Dieminion but I would imagine he knows the matchup extremely well because he and wolfkrone play each other a lot. I play the zoning game and use f.mp and LP TK to avoid booms without losing any ground, I usually only Sj.BK in if I can predict a boom or I know that my opponent has no answer for it (which a good Guile will always be ready for the b.fp or the air throw.) LP TK is a really great tool in this match because it goes under booms obviously and you can lock him down with it esp. in the corner. And if they try to predict it, you can always use feint and punish their jump, flash kick, or whatever they try to do on reaction to it. You can also use it as a great tool to stop Guile’s advance on you, like when they throw a LP boom and walk in. I feel like being patient and waiting for your moment to get in is the best option, and wreaking havoc when you do. And yes I agree sweep is a pretty good button, as is her f.hk (launch in Marvel lol.) I’m surprised I don’t see Viper’s using those moves more often, esp. the latter since it’s safe on block. goes over lows, beats focus etc…

410

Anyone have any tips for the Rufus matchup? I find myself feinting to force him to jump from full screen to about 3/4 screen. My problem is defense in that matchup. I get opened up so much by dive kicks. I also find myself trying to play footsies and just getting dive kicked. How do you other vipers approach the neutral game against Rufus? Many Rufus players have told me to get my offense going first to win and to bait out messiahs. I heard that MP TK is also good in the matchup because from max distance on block, you can backdash and escape most of his options and it puts you and good burn kick cross up range if you don’t backdash. Getting long winded, but any tips would be helpful.

411

Tbh I haven’t faced many Rufuses with my Viper, but I’m used to solid Rufus pressure.
With nearly all pressure, there are gaps, obviously. Rufus wants to be in your face, and your fastest normal is standing close jab at 4 frames (according to eventhubs)…
So maybe if he’s dive kicking you to hell in front of your face you can st. jab him out of that. If he’s trying to frame trap you on the ground more than dive kick I’d say to either focus backdash OS throw to get out of it as well as escape a possible throw attempt or hp TK if you know he’s playing over aggressive.
Also, considering Rufus can change the timing on his dive kick, you should really feel out his playstyle before deciding how to catch him off guard.

I dunno. Just some thoughts on Viper defense against Rufus.
Edit:
Typical Rufus strings consist of dive kicks and st. LK’s, mixing up throws and frame trap cl. HP’s
so… just gotta play smart.

412

Few things. Dont crouch tech. if your going to do it then do it while also pressing strong, can sometimes stop divekicks. Vipers normals are slow so rufus can pretty much dive kick them, if you figure out which pokes hes divekicking (low foward probably) then you can punish it with baits. Also a well spaced MP thunder knuckle can deter him from trying to do dive kicks at a nuetral space since it will sometimes get him on the way up. If he blocks burn kicks his two decent options are to reveral messiah or instant dive kick, if your the type of viper who will go for a throw or start block stringing after a blocked bk then be aware of these options as they are both good counters and instant dive kick leads to ultra with no meter. Heres a link to a money match I did at an event, the rufus is pretty decent here in norcal. Ignore the shitty commentary lol.

413

What to do vs Makoto?

414

Don’t get hit.

But srs, what aspect of the match up are you refering to?

415

Kind of everything… I feel likes she completely dominates Viper, you can’t even use seismo’s because of her forward dash/axe kick. She has a lot of options vs your special moves.

416

Neutral jumping at the right distance is pretty good against makoto

417

i need your help guys. i play a lot vs a friend who main gouki…
i feel that match up is a nightmare to me, i can’t get in, vortex burning kicks don’t work because the shoto c.mk or his teleport out all troubles, he beat me out of the air and
in footsie gouki c.hk outplayed me. i can’t get a solid way to beat that outside a ex seismo and when he land a c.hk he get the vortex started.
before i don’t think the match ups are so bad (i think is 5-5 before because the damage and stun), but now i feel that match ups is terrible to me like 7-3 or worse… i can’t do my game…
i need some advice, maybe i am missing something
thanks you in advance

418

I’ll give you some things I think are good vs Akuma:

  • f.hk can stuff his sweep (try this in training mode)
  • focus dash through his sweeps until he has U1 (he can cancel them into U1)
  • block his vortex, only escape when you know he messed up his timing
  • you can use ex burnkick to get out of the air fireball mixup (mostly used after demonflip throw, dashup, instant airfireball)
  • his demonflips varations can’t hit high, crouch block to make things harder for him
  • after backthrow/fthrow, OS SJ to the side you think he’ll teleport
  • if he uses c.mk vs instant burnkicks on his wakeup, use sj.lk.burnkick (above his head) to beat that c.mk (try this in training mode)
  • if he uses c.mk without watching vs burnkicks just do a c.hp to get a counterhit
  • if he jumps in and throws ex fireballs at the peak for a lockdown, you can dash under and trip gaurd him (test which timing works in training mode)
  • if he throws you in the corner he can use fake crossups like: fthrow, dash, c.mk, j.lk. You can use ex seismo feint to dodge
419

I need help with my viper. Been playing her for months and just can’t get the hang of fighting people who can abuse their specials moves such as balrog bison and so on. If I can somehow upload a video ( I do not have any special equipment to upload stuff and what not) maybe I can help show what I’m doing in the matches . Also I have a horrible time against akuma as his foward air fireball is hard to deal with and his sweeps stop everything except burn kick and fw hk and overhead. Any tips?

I can do most of her technical stuff like instant burn kick, sj instant burn kick, fff ( not consistent with ex seismo but I can still fff regardless) seismos chains etc. Any tips would be nice. Just having a hard time neutral game wise with a lot of characters and refuse to be completely random as I don’t learn from being a random player like most online players

420

Where are you from and are you on PSN or XBL? If you like, you could just send me a friend request and I’ll come into your replay channel to watch the vid at some point.

When it comes to dealing with Akuma’s air fireball, don’t get locked down, move out of the way/focus the air fireball. You can also slide underneath it with LP TK, or make him land on a Seismo (Seismo punish is best done when he’s not so close to you), but these punishes can backfire (you might trade with the fireball punishing it with LP TK/mistime Seismo and get swept off a trade or whiff).

Viper’s normals are slower than most, so she has to be careful when going up against most characters on the ground. You’re correct in using normals and specials like her overheard, forward HK and BKs to leap over them, that’s your best bet. When he hasn’t got Ultra 1, I think you can FA absorb his sweep and go in for a punish. If you’re confident in your ability to whiff punish, you could try walking forwards and backwards and in and out of Akuma’s range to cause him to whiff cr.hk or a normal and tag him with cr.mp/cr.mk>TK or if you’re extremely confident, cr.hp>EX Seismo>whatever. Mix up your forwards and backwards movement with crouches so if he presses cr.hk and you happen to be in range, you’ll block it. But this is quite risky vs Akuma. Otherwise, you could keep him at a distance with Seismos.

Balrog is difficult. Neutral jump HK and LP TK can help curb his Dash specials. Can’t remember what to do against Bison though, sorry.

There’s some good resources concerning Viper’s spacing and “neutral”, need to find them for you and I’ll edit this post to include them. But yeah, need to watch how you play first.

I’m also going to sort out this thread tomorrow, I’ve neglected it for far too long, very sorry. :frowning: