I have a pocket Hakan so I’ll chime in here. No,you shouldn’t recklessly jump and even less bk. Not only because of U2 but because airthrow also grabs bks.
I THINK a timed slide/ex slide also beats bk,so don’t do it unless inside a combo.
Viper has a decent walkspeed so do that,yes walk. Feint your way in and only jump if you see an opening. Ex slide can tag your seismo from really far away so only seismo when you know it will hit.
Mix him up carefully but persistently. Do it even more if he loses oil. If you rush him down while respecting a reversal ex spd ex slide and dont jump that much,you won’t have much problems.
Identify when he is going to oil up and be ready to ex tk your way in for a combo or ultra follow up. Unless he’s doing lk oil from really far away,which lasts nothing (which benefits you) you can probably tag all versions including ex. Of course,you can seismo him too.
Don’t get knockdown or you will die if he knows his setups (which nobody does). Don’t let him pressure you with normals, you’'l die too, and don’t play footsies with him, his normals are great.
Do use your overhead as a air bk replacement IF he is using u1 or he doesnt have u2 ready.
Anti air everything. Even if you block, he can ex spd you even with no oil. Then you get raped on wakeup. Respect the distance on oiled ex spd, he moves forward a lot .
anybody got extensive experience with oni? its sort of the only mu i have played a cpl hundred times (my friend plays oni) and I got to say I dont think its in vipers favor since 2012. All of your bk mixups get stuffed easily (he can even do the EX slash to avoid bks on wakeup and go into ultra from there). Also from the experience he got in the viper mu in turn, he blocks 90%+ of bk mixups anyway, since he can tell if itll hit crossup or not. You lose horribly against his pokes, and doing the low tk to go under his far pokes is pretty shitty risk/reward, since if he sees it coming and jumps u gonna eat a full combo which will be 350+ dmg. Zoning with seismo also doesnt work too well since he can reach you with instant air dashes/tatsu.
To top it all off some of his moves are pretty damn hard to punish with viper, especially online. My friend likes to use the light air stomp in grab situations and even if I block, i still end up eating a srk often because he knows its pretty strict timing to connect a cr.mp as a punish. He doesnt do it offline though, since I can punish it quite reliably offline ;/ It was much more even in ae, but the all around buffs to oni, his new ex air tatsu and the fact that vipers dmg got nerfed while onis life got buffed tilted the ration in his favor quite noticeably. Any advice?
hm thanks, but obviously i have read ryugas writeup already, i am not that ignorant ^^ I kind of begin to understand where my problem is - I try to rushdown oni which is probably not a good idea. Unfortunately im pretty damn terrible at zoning because i cant do rapid seismo feinting
That’s how I fight Oni just zone him out but once he gets in the match is slightly in his favor IMO. Also his DP is 3 frames which I actually didn’t know for awhile as it looks really slow.
Yesterday i tried to focus on those characters that have reversals unpunishable on block, for example M.Bison (dicta) with his ex.PC blocked at mid range is punishable with m.tk, but when you block it close it’s impossible to punish that shit. So when i score a untechable KD what’s the meaning of performing a safe jump? He can ex.PC you all the time and you can’t do anything… So i tried to find some OS, but i didn’t find anything. I need some help what do you do in those situations against dictator?
If Vipers put in SFxT I will go buy it immediately otherwise that game can continue to kick rocks lol.
Well there isn’t anything to post really. How about we share random shenanigans or other info?
I have one, J.MPxxBK is Impossible to block on reaction IMO unlike J.HK/LKxxBX, also the BK doesn’t whiff due to Vipers momentum like it would with HK/LK ex.full screen SJ.HKxxBK would whiff while SJ.MPxxBK wouldn’t. It also sets up the SJ.HK safe crossup or a BK mix-up letting you start your momentum for free. It’s also still easy to combo into a FP so your opponent can’t use the J.MP as a visual clue that a BK is coming they still have guess between a block string or a BK, J.MP has a very subtle animation along with it having to be done late due to its low active frames makes it really hard to even see it which makes the follow up BK look instant. Also due to its low active frames you can do the J.MP earlier so that it whiffs and go for a low/grab etc.
I stopped caring about finishing the unblockable thread as the info that’s missing doesn’t seem that important & no one seems to care anyway. BTW what ever happened to NeoBlood?
if i forward throw my opponent into the corner i dash twice and either
n jump burnkick to catch crotch tech
empty jump cr.lk st.lk cr.mp sjc ultra
also sometimes if i think an opponent is going to mash cr.tech after an overhead ill just do cl.st.mp and link to cr.mp sjc ultra
sometimes i like to use the added frame advantage of hitting a mp tk and just go for a cr.mp sjc ultra as a hail mary when i have no life left
stupid shit like that. lately ive been playing ibuki and its ridiculous how cheap she is. people complain about viper? ibuki has unblockables off of neckbreaker, ex neckbreaker against shotos, dictator, fuerte and i have a million safe jump setups and kunai vortex?
lold. this actually combos on CH btw. you’re better off just doing ultra on blocked mp.tk instead of cr.mp sjc u1 btw. or even backdash then try use it as they try and finish you off with a move or jump in and use it as anti air hail mary or w/e
Damn, can’t really think of any decent shenanigans… I’ve been leveling up with viper so hard lately, but I haven’t really needed anything new, lol. She has way too much going for her already, and pretty much everything i do has been mentioned in these threads before or is in some Latif video.
Although lately, i’ve really been working on frame traps… a blocked jab to st. short, then counter hit cr. forward to ex seismo, meterless fadc ultra is like my favorite thing to hit right now, lol.
Yeah pretty much everything is known about Viper IMO. I can’t think of anything worth sharing, I don’t want the Viper section to die but all good things come to end which sucks but inevitable.
The way I leveled up recently was more about me and my mental attitude when playing viper. Basically, less respect, more herp… Most people simply can’t keep up with her mixups, don’t stop when they block 1 or two of them.
My viper’s definitely better now, but now i’m having less fun… My autopilot is too godlike…
Haha I already went through that phase with Viper back in Super which is when I got to an A+ rank but like you said I just went through everyone on autopilot not giving a fuck and wasn’t having much fun. I tried switching but I’ve been using her since Vanilla & I just can’t do it, so I basically suck now since I force myself to not go on autopilot & try to play solid focusing on fundamentals instead of going straight at it wih all her herp derp crap.
You can actually see Flash change his play style as he goes from crazy rush down to a more solid defensive seismo type game as he realizes Viper isn’t meant to play solid she’s meant to take risk and try to bully the opponent to death which is why he probably switched, although Vipers rush down is crazy it also has many holes and a person who knows this will exploit it neglecting your rush down & force you to back off forcing the defensive seismo type game until you can get back in, but of course this is where Yomi comes into play & is what makes good Vipers good IMO you let the opponent know that you know that they know they’re holes in your offense which takes the mind games to the next level, if the opponent is smart they will probably take the pressure and take bits of damage instead of risking being baited & eating a FFF into more pressure but…
I feel the same … viper is 4 years old now … everything is known … now it’s about match up and yomi as you stated below …
I like Viper, but I started to play nearly all chars at decent / good level … can’t choose a main now … it started because I got frustrated of losing to the same MU everytime (honda/dictator/boxer …) … turtling opponent is boring as hell too …
I’m the same, I stopped playing Viper for a bit awhile back and learned to play the whole cast in search for a secondary.
As for those 3 match-ups I believe Honda is easiest of the 3 as I believe he can’t out footsie you but he can’t be fucked with on wake-up besides LK.bks, this is how I beat most Hondas just stay grounded and poke him out & if I get the life lead I turtle it out but hold your ground don’t let him walk up on you and start his LPxxHands pressure.
IMO what’s makes those matches annoying is that once they have meter you can’t jump on their wake-up as they’ll get out free & even if you safe jump it they’re still safe and reset the neutral game which is in their favor. There are other things of course like Dic’s infinite scissor pressure lol, Rogs jab pressure, & Hondas Hands pressure which makes me feel like we’re supposed to out zone the opponent & keep a mid rang game but that’s hard against the likes of Rog & Dictator.
My Viper is free to Dictators and somewhat to Rogs & Honda but I’ll usually just pick Ryu and spam plasma until they stop chillin full screen and fuck them up at mid-screen lol
That’s the main problem … besides having better pokes than you, they can get out of the “vortex” really easy …
Did you see those matches :
[media=youtube]pxAsZcvxdHQ[/media]
Random thoughts …
Dic’s dash in is just ridiculous … grab or st HK …
Jojo did a lot of ambigous cross up … nearly impossible to AA for vip … may be tonpy should have focus dash than just stay static and block … I don’t remember if dic has time to hit you with a poke if you focus backdash ?
There’s this OS jojo did, st LK, st LK+HK … tonpy should have wake up focus+grab+backdash to avoid this …
also … I remembered there was a dogura vs uryo ft5 … don’t know if this has been posted before but it’s worth a look + it’s cool to see uryo with viper … from what I remember ,I think dogura doesn’t know the MU enough to really dominate …
[media=youtube]QWWzzP9smC8[/media]
