If the Juri player is good what they will do if they see you attempting this is to switch to j.mp which stuffs all Viper’s aerial moves if timed correctly. It’s really annoying to deal with. Most of the time I just try to stay out of the range where she can jump at me easily.
One gimmick you can use against Juri is to pick U2 and punish her if she goes for anti-air. Her AA normals widen her hitbox and stay active forever.
If she stops using j.hp and dives then just aa her normally? Basically she can’t ever force you to stop aaing because one option beats the opposing option. Yeah, that’s alright because you get free jump-ins in the middle of the round.
I agree mostly with this, but i feel that the rufus matchup is manageable after you figure it out, and that Blanka definitely deserves to be on this list somewhere.
I’m also of the opinion that blanka needs to be in there somewhere. Also, I feel honda is worse than rose or juri for example. Can you explain what is it that you do to make this just an annoying matchup?
Agreed on Deejay though, I player a couple of them recently and he can be a pain in the ass.
@DarkAdmiral: I just feel even if you understand the match-up he still has an advatange in most situations; jumping is asking to eat either j.RH > dive kick reset > anything / ex snake strike / c.mp, he’s got a reversal that’s 50-50 on being completely safe without FADC, he’s got safe galatic tornado, his lk and lp pretty mch handles close combat and he’s got decent pokes, etc. It’s just a match that against an average - high level player that can block her shit and can aa is going to be in Rufus’ favour.
@FallenAngel: You can’t ever go in, you have to lame it out for 95% of the match; bait his headbutts and hit him out of them like with Fei Long’s CWs or with f.mp, you can’t ever let him get a jump in as best as you can, stand in the ranges outside of jab headbutts when playing footsies and learn to reaction dash forward to avoid buttslams that don’t tag you while it’s going up and punish it, also if he wakes up buttslam, also learn how to stop blocking after you wake up and he uses buttslam whicha tag you while going up so you can punish him.
Depending if he holds back all the time force him to lose charge, if he walks forward a lot then keep using c.mk xx stuff and once he starts blocking the cross-ups then do the fake cross bk stuff and thats’s about it.
Oh yeah Blanka, he would be in the annoying pile but he’s a gimmick charcater like Viper and El Fuerte, they are all inherently difficult when they run their mix-ups on you, so he would be with El Fuerte and co.
Blanka doesn’t need gimmicks to beat Viper. He out-pokes her, has an easier time escaping her mixups, can hop over seismos, and destroys her on wake up. A lot of the things that Viper gets away with on other chars just doesn’t work against Blanka. Plus now that EX V.Ball knocks down she can’t pressure him for free in the corner any more.
speaking of Rufus’ EX Messiah, is there an answer for this for the 3 possible followups he can do? I play my friend’s Rufus a lot, and any time he gets a bar, he spends it 99.9% of the time without FADCing to safety. I’ve went in training, but got mixed results. Usually one of my options would beat one of his options, but another option would beat mine. It’s basically rock paper scissors. However, Rufus can also delay his short backflip which can beat Viper’s fierce TK.
The only thing that I have found to work for sure is if I think he’s going to mash out Messiah, I jump back and land on top of him with a fierce, though I think he’s a little to far for a follow up (I could be wrong).
EX.BK beats all options I believe, or block low and FP.TK if he goes high. Also if you block EX. Messiah at point blank range crouch and Rufus goes over you and as soon as he does punish with CR.HPxxEX.Seismo.
@ilitirit: Well, those points don’t really make him a difficult match-up because 75% of her match-ups they have better pokes than she does, and Blanka can use all the meter he wants to escape stuff with Rainbow Ball and as long as you respect up ball like it was a DP, that isn’t exactly threatening because she can land damage in other ways too, you can bait hops and punish with TKs either mp / hp depending on the range similar to how you bait CWs and other traveling specials.
What does Viper get away with? random overheads, cross-up bks during block string, ambiguous roundhouse, frame traps for both mash crouch tech and delayed crouch tech, fake cross - up bks, and seismo shenanigans; so how does those not work on Blanka? I am actually legitamate, not saying you’re wrong but I don’t see how any of her mix-ups don’t run on him. Up ball is like Ken’s DP but you can actually punish it if you block in the corner so that doesn’t really validate him being hard match.
If you can show me a replay where Blanka uses 0 gimmicks and wins by poking her to death and that Viper couldn’t run her standard mix-up game of consistent high / low / cross - up / tech / block game then I’ll admit that he doesn’t need gimmicks to beat her, but from everything I’ve experienced and watched, when Blanka gives up the momentum from the mix-up, he gets like negligible damage from poking as long as the Viper isn’t stupidly throwing out crap for no reason and Viper can just tag him with random overheads and c.mk xx stuff, forcing him to play the high / low block game for free.
Viper basically destroys any character when she has momentum and Blanka is no exception, but some of the stuff she can get away with is just not as effective. The stuff that seems gimmicky that Blanka does is not really gimmicky vs Viper. He can get away with more against her because her fastest cr.tech (besides kara’ing the jab) comes out in 5f, so he can setup hop situations on wakeup that are safe to everything except HP TK. This is troubling for Viper because she has to worry about getting b.thrown into an OS’able unblockable that leads to a combo. She can escape it with some difficulty, but she also has to consider what happens if Blanka fakes it. X-up BKs still work but they’re definitely not as effective vs Blanka (coward crouch, EX V.Ball, AA U2, EX Rainbow Ball depending on the situation). Even though he doesn’t even need Ultra to win this match, he can use U1 to escape certain x-up situations and can delay the release to make it harder for Viper to choose a correct punish if she even can. Blanka is actually my main.
@ilitirit: Yeah, I know about the hop set-ups and unblockable he has with Viper, but again most of those difficulties are presented when Viper is knocked down, and like generally unless you can do f.tk feint on wake up correctly then you can rape her asshole on her wake-up, that’s why I don’t feel he’s a tough match-up he just has better tools for exploiting one area of weakness she has; the only hard match-ups IMO are the ones where Viper can be shut down from any position and they get a lot of damage off their pressure when they connect, where Blanka’s hit-confirms don’t deal enough to make me scared.
Unblockables are always going to be like that, escape unblockable or block the escape punish (f.tk feint avoids everything though), and cross-up bks hardly ever work on Blanka lol, I only go for them off a jump attack like, j.hp, land, ia cross bk or like s.lk, ia cross bk and etc.
But thanks for explaining, again this is just how I feel the match-up is like to me not how it should be for everyone, not saying you don’t know how a match - up against your main should go like.
in my list her hardest are 6 - 4 to the opposing character and the rest is 5.5 - 4.5 to the opposing character
I usually play a Dee jay friend … and I think the problem is that his pokes are really good and his LK sobat works a bit like dictator scissors …
When you’re at max distance for his LK sobat, basically you can’t do anything … and poking his hella risky since his sobat has a great invincibility, even Ex seismo will lose. If you neutral jump, he can jackknife too …
Close battle seems too hard for viper … so I tried to stay just outside his LK sobat range … and make him whiff this move …at this range you can poke with 2MK+TK or even 2HP+Ex seismo … even raw U1 is possible.
Spaming MP TK is risky, his 2MK and slide will beat you clean and he gets a free knockdown. Then he can start his “vortex”. He’ll jump with MK or his knee. Just try to block and wait to get away. Other options are focus dash away, ex seismo feint, hp tk feint. If you successfully block his jump, he can try to mind fuck you with repeated cross up MK, don’t fall for that … just AA with stand MK.
Seismo game seems limited against him … at full screen no problem, but 3/4 screen away with an ex meter and he can ex sobat… I just play with a lot of feints, to make him waste his meter.
Also some random thoughts:
_medium normals MP TK is not a true block string (I got supered then ultra-ed between LoL over 600dmg I think)
_back throw, walk a bit jump HK works wonder and counter hit all jackknife except the ex one.
_don’t try to punish his HK slide at max range, it’s safe and usually he has a charged move right behind that.
_don’t jump to get in at mid screen (he has too much AA options, far HK, MP, slide, jackknife, jump back fierce …)
Overall game plan is to stay away, zone him and bait him …
I’ll try to find some more usefull stuff with time …
Does anyone have new stuff for the elf matchup? I’ve been running into a couple lately. I’m about to hit the lab on him and deejay… lol
About Elf … it depends on the elf player level …
I like to be aggressive in this MU because … I don’t want fuerte to play his game of running …
When I put him down, I like to meaty mp or lp TK …because:
[LIST]
[]if he blocks he can’t grab you (too much push back)
[]can’t focus backdash
[] can’t ex run
[] srk legs whiff then you punish (2mp TK, or more with 2hp … I don’t think you have enough time to get closer for a FFF )
[]backdash will avoid the TK but he’ll be a bit far to grab you in your recovery, he’ll have to walk forward then you can tech his throw
[]U1 on wake up will whiff … you’ll cross down him
[]the only thing that can beat this is U2 on wake up
[/LIST]
Another tips, it’s risky but I do it when I know the elf player is wake up ex runnig happy … let’s say I managed to land 2hp+ex seismo+BK … usually I like to walk a bit forward and immediatly jump HK, hk BK.
[LIST]
[]quick stand and run ex splash or tortilla, you’ll avoid or beat him.
[]quick stand and run ex stop, slide HK you’re knocked down
[]quick stand and srk legs, you’ll counter hit him except for the ex version
[]quick stand U1 catch you
[]quick stand U2 whiff
[*]no quick stand … you’ll hk bk whiff and stand away from him
[/LIST]
Like I said it’s risky but most of the time I used this I caught a lot of ex run tortilla … cause I knew there were stressed by the bk vortex.
… that’s all I can think of now … I’ll add more infos if I have some …
Anybody have tips for the Makoto match? I feel like I’m limited to mainly safe jumps whenever i get a knockdown because whenever I attempt a burn kick I get a fuki for 300 or so damage, plus her dash makes it hard to keep her out at all
Ok,not an expert but getting the ball rolling so better players can add to what I’m going to tell you here.
Makoto you have two basic gameplans: you zone her or you rush her down. You can alternate between them too, but you have to play well,she-s a great char and many people have this as 4-6 in their matchup chart.
Basically she can take half your life in less than 10 secs if you don’t keep her on a leash. How do you do that? You zone her, but smartly. Use a combination of seismos, ex seismos, cr mk (keep that dash honest) and mp tk to keep her out of range. She has a rythm like Viper,which you dont want to let her get into.
Anti air everything,hold your ground. Use every antiair you have. Don’t discount early back HK,it works. Don’t keep her full screen,midscreen is the distance to be.
If you get your knockdown,go nuts ,that’s your chance for damage. She has less life now and you should be able to put the hurt if your execution is decent.
Don’t randomly bk over her head,respect the fuki. If you have to do it time it high and like you would agains a sagat dp or whatever.
If she chooses U2 feint a lot,bait that ultra and punish hard.
Don’t jump at her with normals,in fact don’t try to anti air that way. MP may give you better results but her HP will own anything under the sun and will let her dash under you for rape.
Don’t panic if you have her on you, try to make reads and try to escape. If you panic you’ll get raped in the corner in no time. Don’t push normals randomly,every button she has probably beat yours. Her st mp is pink floyd’s the wall,man .
Also,use your overhead, for some reason they don’t seem to block it.
That’s all of the top of my head, hope it helps.
dont mash lk bk because her axe kick beats it clean and she gets a free punish. focus back dash works well for me, block, or hp tk trade
Against Makoto it’s just a matter of who gets into their rhythm first. The match should take place around mid-screen as both players try to get momentum, Mokoto will either dash in or ex.dash punch to start her offence so try to keep her honest with CR.MK & TK’s.
Once she gets in on you don’t start mashing crap trying to get out cause your just gonna end up eating a shit load of damage, block and wait for your moment to escape.
If she’s fuki happy don’t bk and just do safe-jumps or empty jump short/ grab/ cross-up bk etc. until she stops.
When she has U2 use bks on her wake-up sparingly as she can reversal U2, same goes for seismos but you shouldn’t be using them much anyway since she can react to a seismo or feint with a F+Dash and most likely catch you off guard.
Her buttons>Your buttons, don’t press buttons you will get counter-hit all day.
Her game plan is much like Vipers, get in and go for the kill its as simple as that. It’s just a matter of who explodes first. The match is in her favor as she defiantly has better options IMO.
After checking out the list of match-ups on this Thread I noticed Hakan wasn’t on there…Hakan is getting pretty good now and I think a Revision on the match ups would be wise…just saying…If you guys want to check out Hakan…Infiltration’s hakan aint no joke and we have a pretty devoted Hakan player(ANDslayers) from San Diego. If you guys want you can check out http://www.twitch.tv/theboxarena/videos Just last night we had BSL (BOX SESSIONS LIVE) so its pretty fresh…He made top 8…But just last week(Watch Feb.8 footage archive)He got first but he was using Guile for the last matches…My Viper got wrecked against him and I was mainly playing on Instinct…No Idea how to fight HAKAN…
Hakan got a lot of buffs & with his ability to stay oiled up now for long periods of time makes him good now. I don’t have any experience against him but from what I can tell we can’t BK when he’s oiled up since he can do FA & dash cancel into a normal for a free combo.
On our wake-up doing LK.BK or EX.Seismo is risky cause Flying Oil Spin will catch us and the LK version is 9 frames now, I don’t know if it’ll grab FP.TK but other airborne grabs are able to so it might also grab her out of it.
I think we may actually have to stay grounded for this match until we get our momentum going. He has good options to deal with BK’s & once he has U2 you can’t go airborne at all.
I fought a Hakan who sucked but he did this block string with jabs that made him move forward as he did it forcing a 50/50 between spd & more jabs lol, I couldn’t get out of it and I was mashing on FP.TK & ended up eating a bunch of jabs which is better then eating a spd obviously so it’s not really a big deal as I don’t think he has a combo from jab. I don’t know what this was but truthfully it was annoying as hell.
My 2cents although it’s mostly just theory fighter since I have no experience against him.