I’m also of the idea of keeping everything in one thread. Maybe create a new one and start from there. 39 threads is too much.
Also, we should focus just on the top 10 and hard matchups, to maximize value/resources.
Hard/Troublesome Matchups:
Honda
Cammy
Balrog
Bison
Guy
El Fuerte?
Adon?
Top10
Seth,Akuma,Sagat,Ryu,etc
thoughts?
Yeah I think just start a new thread,copy and paste everything into it and change as needed and then get that stickied instead.I personally think a couple of the sticked threads should be redone like the combo thread as it’s bit outdated at this point but eh it’s a lot of work lol.
I agree the current match-up thread should be un-stickied and replaced with a new one, the combo thread also and maybe sticky the general discussion thread.
I also agree with FallenAngel to focus on the more difficult match-ups instead of all of them at once and that list is spot on for me. Now if everyone is in agreement we should decide who wants to work on what or who’s even able to contribute, I am able to take whatever task I just want to know what others are comfortable doing. Also should I make an Unblockable thread?
Im cool with an unblockable thread. Really I still need to learn proper safejump timing and any kind of OS’s that might come from that. I still dont even know the stuff where you hit a specific burn kick then super jump at the other person on their wakeup and either throw a HK or another bk to cross them up. I just always assume I’m going to get dp’d and just go for other safer stuff.
As far as organization of a new matchup thread, I may be able to do a compromise of the idea I had and the one thread idea. One thread, but one lengthy in depth matchup post per character. Linking to single posts is pretty easy, so having a first post of the thread with links for each characters specific post like a table of contents might be nice, rather than spoiler tagging 4 matchups per post like now.
Yeah, I think that would be nice. We have so much good information in these threads, but without decent organization it gets lost pretty quickly.
+1 on the Unblockable thread. Not only the ones found so far, but a basic intro explanation for those of us that never used and want to dive into more advanced stuff. Like when to use them,etc.
Also I agree with Neo on one thread but reserving one (two?) posts per character and linking to that. That’d be great.
Cammy is a bitch but that’s if you respect her too much. What you want to do is zone her out and figuring out how she wants to get close to you; a safe Spiral Arrow or Razor’s Edge Slicer loses to SJ lk BK, you should be able to react to a max range Quick Spin Knuckle with lp TK or a hp TK if closer. Once you get her to try walking towards you, you want to play the footsie zoning tactics like instant air mk burning kick, f.mp if they like to try and dive in on you and also the standard c.mk xx shenanigans once you condition them to stay grounded and be wary of s.mk and s.hk (try to focus this one) if you get close to her work out if they are going to respect you or not, if they don’t respect you bait that shit and make them respect you, if they already respect you then go to town like they do on you.
If you’re on the blocking end just try to use lk BK to get out if they’re doing tight strings, if they are hitting you out of it then just do hp tk where you’d normally be able to do lk BK. If they try to block either one then just mash back dash if you’re not in the corner or SJ out if you are in the corner, also learning how they set-up the cross up dive kick and learning which side they land after a dive kick is very important as well. I haven’t tested it yet but you should be able to force out their OS by doing hp TK feint on wake-up too.
Guy is definitely one of her harder match-ups, in dealing with the elbow you must learn to reaction s.mk the close one and if they’re baiting you once you start doing that, they generally will be OSing the punish for the bait so try to punish the OS instead of the elbow, which is generally the slide so when zoning him and you see the elbow drop do SJ lk BK or f.mp, if they’re not OSing then just do the standard c.mk on landing. Footsie wise he’s much harder than Cammy because of s.mp post special move, that move will fuck with pretty much everything unless you have EX Seismo stocked, if you do just run the standard c.mp xx mp tk > ex seismo bs until he stops when you have meter and if he uses slide to counter that then just do f.mp to counter his counter. If he does stop at max range SJ lk BK and hits out his slide.
On wake-up just watch and see what he does, EX Spin Kicks beat out cross-up BK stuff clean while EX Run gets him out, if he does EX Run on Wake-up then just time your hp TK the standard s.lk timing to block EX Spin Kicks and still hit him out of EX Run, when he has no meter is the only time you can do the cross bk shenanigans on his wake up. If he gets you to block then you don’t really have an option outside of taking a risk and trying to escape and EX Seismo gets hit out of 90% of the time and all his moves are safe including slide at max-ranges so yeah, just another match where you have to go on the offensive before he does.
Hardest Match-Ups IMO are:
Rufus
Guy
Adon
Yun
Yang
Against proficient users (Tough):
Ken
Cammy
Dee Jay (That’s right Dee Jay)
Juri
Makoto
Vega
Rose
Zangief
With enough knowledge and experience not really that tough just annoying:
Bison
Honda
Balrog
Fei Long
El Fuerte
Basically the 1st and 3rd category don’t allow Viper to play the way she wants to that’s all whifch is why they are so hard because it’s so unnatural to restrain her playstyle, the 2nd one has options to shut her down if they know what to do so you have to play smartly to win.
I don’t think we have a thread for that kind of info, maybe take the combo thread and add setups to it? or just make a thread dedicated to setups and shenanigans for each character sort of like a match-up thread?
You mean you want to reserve entire posts for each character but have the first post link to each characters posts?
If so that seems fine to me.
I don’t really understand what you mean, you want me to explain what an unblockable is or why it works, something along those lines? As for explaining when to use them all her unblockables are from throws and sweep so I would use them pretty much every time I land a sweep or grab except if they know a way to escape it then I’ll…oh I see what you mean lol
I agree with this except with Rufus he’s only annoying when he has meter for ex.messiah otherwise I just rush him down, I never had much problems with him before. And 100% a good DJ is a problem he has a decent vortex and keep away.
Also we should actually start using the discussion thread instead of derailing other threads with random conversations to keep things organized.
About Guy …
He has an unblockable on viper since super … still working on 2012.
He does forward throw, 1 jump forward, second jump forward MK …
Also against elbow, I don’t use too much 2MK, because mistimed, you can switch side and get caught by his 2LK (3frames) … I’d rather use 2LK if it connects than I go st LK, 2MP, MP TK or whatever … if it doesn’t connect, you can still block. IMO the best option is focus backdash because you reset the space and by focusing you prevent him from OSing you… Same on wakeup, his OS slide HK is really easy to do, so don’t backdash for free.
It’s hard because guy is always trying to bait you with some tricky jump trajectory…I don’t try too AA him that much … his bushin flip grab often beats viper’s AA.
I think in those random match up, there is no real tricks to win, it’s more about yomi, try to adapt to the player’s patterns and reactions.
I suck at the Juri matchup. It’s so hard to anti-air her. Close st.mk works well against certain things but Juri’s j.hp just throws me off completely.
We should add all unblockables against us in the match-up thread with ways to escape that is if there is a way to escape or just so we are aware that X character has an unblockable on us and take that into account during the match.
A good Juri reallyyyy annoys me you can’t even jump at all. I faced a Juri that AA’d me from almost full screen, I was sitting full screen and jumped forward to close the distance and she just jumped and did divekicks I was like wtf that’s bs I’m no where near you! I pretty much got mindfucked cause she did it like three times and handed me my ass on a silver platter.
Yeah I’m starting to compile info for the new thread, trying to go through every other characters matchup threads to see how they approach viper.
@uguisudani: I think you misread or misunderstood what I said, you should only use 2 mk if Guy is doing elbow drops to stop him from his Bunshin Flips and jump-ins, and if he tries to do elbow drops from a Bunshin Flip overhead then you can use 5 mk because there is a certain distance Guy travels before any elbow comes out and if you go a little bit back from that distance you’ll never miss with 5 mk.
Oh yeah the unblockable, well as with all unblockables the Guy has to stop the escape attempt or do the unblockable to the character so it’s a 50-50 but if the Guy is going for that then you can just mash BKs anyways.
@illitirit: Yes, that’s one of her moves that usually avoids / trades with grounded anti-airs along with dive kicks, both lose to nj.hk and back j.mp and if you have fast enough reactions foward j.hk.
@PChrisGI: Rufus is tough because you can’t rush him down he has 3 excellent anti-air options and if he knows how to play footsies and can whiff punish well then you should be having a hard time because he can avoid footsies with dive kicks and he can punish whiffs with sweeps and then when he gets in he can go hard and safe while being able hit you out of every escape option.
The same goes for Juri you shouldn’t be jumping at her because she needs to get in to do some serious damage and she can’t Fuhajin store because you can Seismo her out of them, you should mainly concetrate on her like with Cammy it’s just she’s even harder to handle with pressure because she can go nuts at you while being mostly safe, just learn how to go nuts on her while being able to bait the EX Senpusha and EX Focus thing.
Also watch this it shows you stuff Juri can do to anal Viper so learn when she’s doing these things and adjust appropriately.
[media=youtube]uUUk60A9Srs[/media]
:eek:
Yep, that’s always fun to watch 
lolol
Did you mean to post a link?
Maybe I never faced a good enough Rufus but he never gave me problems, I just space him out and don’t let them get in and if they do get in hp.tk fadc shuts down his divekick/grab shenanigans and I think almost all his block strings have holes in them so it shouldn’t be to hard to get out. Also st.hp is unsafe on block so when he does st.lk, st.lk, st.hpxxGalactic tornado you can hp.tk after the hp to trade with the the galactic tornado and send him flying full screen to kill his momentum.
@PChrisGI: yeah lol, that depends on the Rufus if he knows how to play the match-up and not go balls to the wall and has good footsies then you have a problem if they are just going in then w/e just do the same thing.
http://www.youtube.com/user/TauntMeImFamous Has a couple of OS’s on his/her channel along with some other useful information like punishing certain moves etc. I don’t know who he/she is but the vids would be useful for the new match-up thread that is if he/she is ok with us using the videos, if not just post them in notations lol.
[media=youtube]vd0Rxqam5Rc[/media] [LEFT]（ﾟдﾟ；）[/LEFT]
About the Guy unblockable, if you know hes going for it, block it as a cross up at the last second or fierce TK it to get out of it. He may go for an empty jump or do a late elbow he knows you know how to get out of it, but TK still beats the elbow drop. I have to go back and test it but I think mashing BKs to get out of it only screws you because you just air reset and land right in front him. EX Seismo feints work but you’re wasting your meter which you may want to use to get out of his other 50/50s on wakeup so you would probably want to save that.
some tips on the Adon match I’ve thought about. The match is very meter dependent. When Viper has meter, Adon cant Jaguar Kick or Jaguar Tooth at all anymore. all verions of those moves are all punishable but EX Seismo on reaction. Even alot of Adon’s main spacing tools like st. HK can all be seismo’d.
So Wolfkrone wins the LG tournament, so proud of that kid congratulations. Sad to see Floe didn’t exploit the weaknesses that we were mentioning about the guy vs viper matchup.
Anyway on topic: Rose. I guess everyone knows but just in case, overhead beats ex spiral. Very useful against those people that pressure you with it.