So I just got straight up raped by a dhalsim 10-0. I literally did not dare to move after awhile since burnkicks just got hit by his airpokes and everytime I seismo he’ll teleport and do that fucking combo which leads to super etc. Seriously, I need advice badly on this match-up. People say he’s free, I don’t feel like that’s the case AT ALL.
You have to be patient against Dhalsim. He knows you want to rush him down and kill him in 1:30 min or less total. So he’s gonna wait for you and play it smart if he’s any good. You need one chance , so wait for it, and make it count when you get it. He bleeds hard.
Feint a lot and don’t get desperate. If he teleports, sometimes standing mp will counter his attack. From there you’re close to him so make it count. I THINK you can counter some of his long range limbs with c mp so definitely try that . Trades should be in your favor.
Disclaimer: Far from a Viper expert but trying to help a brother here XD.
^Agree with this guy. You have to be really patient in this match. You can’t just rush in because good Dhalsims know how to hit you out of the air with his long limbs. Just wait for your opportunity to get close to him and once you score a knockdown this is the fun part. Just go batshit crazy lol.
Any info on the AE Dee Jay matchup? Thanks in advance!
Check these links: SSF4 AE C.Viper Match-up Thread and SSF4 AE C.Viper Match-up Thread
Anyway, time for the Oni match-up that I said I’d do.
*1) Her LP TK goes under Oni’s f.hp, f.mk and f.hk. Viper can also go over his cr.mk with f.mp and f.hk like all the other shotos can. *
*2) Oni’s cr.mk goes under BK. His st.hp and cr.hp can beat out your BKs. *
*3) Oni EX DP all of her reversal options, and they will all lose. HP TK(Thunder Knuckle), all forms of BK(Burning Kick) including the EX version and EX Seismo will all lose to EX DP. EX Seismo feint doesn’t recover quick enough to enable Viper to block the EX DP in time, so that loses too. Backdash loses to EX DP. Admittedly, I haven’t tried HP TK Feint yet. *
*4) I think it goes without saying, from a distance, you win due to Seismos. Viper can get around fireballs anyway with BKs, LP TK and so on, plus Oni’s fireballs don’t even reach full screen lol. He’d ideally want to stay at mid range where he can poke at her and take the fight to her. LP TK goes under a good amount of pokes, like f.mk, f.hp, and f.hk. His normals are a lot laggier than they appear, especially his f.hp. I’ve seen Air’s Ryu whiff punish Oni’s f.hp with Ultra, that’s how laggy it is. *
*5) Oni can avoid Seismos using Sekisei Jiraiken(jump stomp.) He can sorta avoid and punish Seismos using Rankan Dantojin(cross-up move)but it has to be done pre-emptively, like, you do the special before her Seismo comes out so it’s not that practical. Finally, he has airdashes as an extra form of mobility, which could throw off her Seismo zoning. But that move has bad landing recovery. If he airdashes backwards and you’re not too far away, plant a Seismo underneath him. In general, plant a Seismo underneath him if he airdashes and he’s not near you. *
Oni wants to knock you down, that’s pretty much his one shot. He’s got cross-up Tatsu and cross-up Rankan Dantojin for mix-ups, but HK Rankan Dantojin can be blocked fairly easy and is punishable(I think -8) All versions of Rankan Dantojin are unsafe except the light version which goes the shortest distance, which leaves him at -2. If he ever tries to use any of the regular Rankans in resets, press buttons and hit him out of it. You can grab him too. EX Version, he glows bright yellow and he always crosses you up, so block the other side. That’s also punishable too. If you knock him down, the usual mix-ups work, Viper can use BKs to make his options whiff/get beaten out. He also can’t FADC his Shoryu.
*6) When Oni’s on the offensive and has you blocking, he’ll use normals like b.mp, st.hp st.mp and stuff like that during frametraps, which’ll stuff reversal LK BKs. Oni wants you to press buttons so he can hit you with a large combo. If he has *
- two bars and catches you with a counter hit, you’ll eat massive damage and stun. Watch out for gimmick aerial Raging Demons when he’s in the air. He can also kara his f.mp into Demon too and maybe his f.mk, can’t remember. *
*I believe Viper definitely has the advantage in this MU, Oni’s a pretty weak shoto variant so far, but Oni can hit you very hard. *
Good stuff Ryuga. I always thought Oni wasn’t a threat to Viper, mainly because I think Viper can keep him out easily due to his go-to fireball not being fullscreen and his charged fireball being susceptible for EX Seismo into superjump, allowing you to go in if you want. If you zone him properly, his best bets are either a Hail Mary airdash or a Rankan FADC which can be dealt with easily.
Thanks Chromecakes!
Yeah, I agree, Oni’s not a threat for Viper. His options for going through Seismos can be baited really easy, so he usually has to resort to FAing through them, and that can be dealt with as well. IMO, Oni’s just a weak variant of a shoto with slower normals but higher damage and some interesting mobility options that ultimately, aren’t very good lol.
Dan’s another character that nobody uses. You pretty much deal with him like you do any other shoto, but what you have to watch for are his Dankyakus. During pressure, Dankyaku is quite annoying, but any move that can lower your hitbox against it will make the move whiff. So, you can LP TK underneath it and escape the pressure. I need to find out more about the Dan MU so I can go more indepth into it.
Oh yeah, Fei. Need to find a way to deal with that guy. Unfortunately, this MU’s not clear cut at all because Fei’s such a solid character.
I don’t know about this matchup- I really feel as if this is one of those matchups where Viper can only rely on a knockdown and a solid and calculated mixup game to win. Fei controls horizontal space incredibly well with his pokes. His FA is fast and can be used to focus through Seismo’s and hit you with the Rekkas since they cover quite some horizontal ground as well. If I want to keep Fei out, my main focus is making him jump to AA him, punishing his chicken wings and throwing out those safe strong TK’s and then an safe instant MK BK to catch a counterpoke.
Otherwise if you can score a knockdown, I’d suggest you go all out and know when you need to keep your distance. But then again, this is my experiences with him.
Rygua, there are a couple of option selects specifically for Fei that Wolfkrone has posted on YouTube a while back… Not sure if these have been cited or not but check them out.
Thanks! If Fei backdashes, Viper’s in trouble unfortunately. Best to use LP TK, it’ll slide under the Wing.
And yeah, I fought my friend’s Fei and yeah, it didn’t go well lol. I couldn’t get anything going, footsies, mix-ups(grinds to a halt when Fei’s got Ultra 2 threatening Viper) while he could pretty much do whatever he wanted. Also, his cr.mk makes HP TKs on wake-up whiff, should’ve known before really.
If Viper gets any kind of momentum, she has to ride it. Any knockdown, any hit, otherwise Fei walks all over her. Maybe I’m best off going random against Fei and try to go nuts whenever I can.
Thanks, I went to the lab and found out that against his air D+LK you can do most of her crouching attacks and they’ll hit him out of it. Even if he does it late a properly timed attack (i.e. c.MK) will beat him anyway thanks to no tripguard. I even tried c.MK sj. ultra 1 and it worked. I don’t know if there’s a way to make Dee Jay’s air D+LK to hit lower, I tried many timings and seemed like Viper could “crouch anti air” all of them.
Now for a different question… AE Blanka. (thanks in advance!)
I’ve not fought AE Blanka yet, but he seems like the same old Blanka, except his Rolls are even easier to punish now. I’ll get to work on that later for you. 
reversal strong seismo or EX seismo beats any kind of blanka ball he throws at you while he lands, then you can follow it up with a sjc burn kick. I know you can do this if you block his blanka ball, but I can’t remember if this work if the blanka ball hits you.
Also, if you are in his face while he is waking up and he does wakeup U1, then you can backdash twice and U1 right back at him. It beats him clean, regardless if he holds the roll or not.
Blanka forum says this:
From my personal experience,Viper SHOULD win this match, but you 've to play it carefully, especially online. You can kill him quickly if you get a knockdown and manage to capitalize on it for a dizzy,then repeat KO.But it’s not as easy as it sounds.
Blanka is very mobile. Yes, he doesnt do a lot of damage, but he can wake up up ball your bk cross up attempts, jump at you from different angles and make you guess with good normals. I feel you have to think a lot in this match,at least to break him the first time and show them you can hurt them. Once they know, it’s over. But you have to prove that. DON’T BE AFRAID, and control space,don’t give him the initiative.
He has great normals ,a decent focus,is really easy to use,and like I said,great mobility. Play it smart,don’t get cute, turtle if you get the lead (why not) and punish,punish,punish.
If they don’t have ultra,you can meaty cr lk I think and it should beat anything he does. Electricity is punishable from like a dash back distance with low mk then mp tk.
Just in case, here’s the Blanka MU in the first page(though outdated, AFAIK, apart from changes to Roll and maybe something else, he’s more or less the same?):SSF4 AE C.Viper Match-up Thread
Reversal EX up ball beats meaties.
Blanka beats Viper. Better pokes, ambiguous x-ups, and several ways to beat BK mixups swings it in his favour. He also has a slightly easier time with hop shenanigans against her because she doesn’t have a 3f hit-confirmable jab or short.
Also, don’t get back-thrown midscreen otherwise you’ll eat an unblockable. He has several OS’s which makes it pretty hard to escape the unblockable. Once you get trained by the unblockable he can use ambiguous j.hp or delayed j.hk for more damage. You can try focus backdashing but if he changes his attack/timing you can end up dashing into him.
is in blanka favor because the poking game.
-the footsie hop game can be beated in reaction with c.mp+lk+lp tech
-ex up ball can be beated be a reversal mp thunder knuckle on block
-and all balls can be beated be a ex seismo on block
-you can safe jump blanka from a f.throw doing dash>jab tk feint>sj.hk
-you can cross up blanka in the corner doing t.mp and make him lose the horizontal charge
-you can cross under blanka after a FFF>ex seismo>sj.hk burning kick>dash he lose the horizontal charge (latif set up )
-you can bait the up balls doing super jumps forward after a blocked seismo
option select vs him:
t.mp>fierce thunder knuckle (beat ex raibow ball escape)
c.lp>fierce thunder knuckle>s.lk>c.mp (beat ex raibow reversal escape)
(safe jump) hp/hk>fierce thunder knuckle (lose to the back dash/ultra/super punish the back dash in the corner)
blanka have a easy time vs viper pressure because blanka have so many tools vs burning kicks the up ball and normals balls beat every viper shenanigans and some moves like slide pass under .
so blanka control de match in mid range and if he nock you down, the only place where you have an advantage is when you corner him. in the corner blanka is allmost dead vs viper …every ball on hit/block is punish badly and rainbow ball can be beated be a fierce knuckle in reaction or option selected. so you can do your meaty/frame trap game in the corner he can’t do to much outside of wake up ultra or super .
and strong seismo :]. It’s always nice not to be completely obligated to use meter for punishes.
I could use some help with Sakura AE. I didn’t have trouble against good sakura players all the way through SSF4. AE Sakura’s vipers are nailing me like crazy. I get caught in two crossup strings and end up dizzy/nearly dead.
Personally, I don’t have the greatest Sakura matchup experience, but I have gone against Steve H.'s Sakura plenty of times (and his Sakura is amazing). Sakura is just one of those matchups that Viper has where Viper does perfectly fine until Sakura gets in. Sakura’s pressure is fantastic. So, just don’t let her in :P. It wasn’t until I played Steve H. until I realized that Sakura can keep a character in almost completely blockstun with her pressure. Surely, there are a few frames between each normal she throws out, so you can try to:
[LIST]
[]Backdash (hold back on the second pressing of back, because if the backdash doesn’t come out, then you should still be blocking).
[]EX Seismo (a bit risky, because if you mistime it, you’ll get hit hard by a long combo).
[]Fierce TK (a mix of risk is involved in this. If you mistime it, you should still be holding back anyway since it’s a qcb motion. If you are worried that the motion and timing might not be perfect so that a standing fierce could accidentally come out, you can just hold fierce while you’re on the ground or in blockstun and negative edge the fierce for the TK motion. However, the risk comes into play if Sakura is crouching, thus making you whiff and getting destroyed. More risk comes into this if she reads that you’re going to try to TK yourself out of trouble, so she might block. In this case, you’re basically obligated to FADC backdash unless you want to eat a combo into ultra. FADC backdash is important here because if you forward dash, you’re putting yourself in the exact same situation you were trying to escape).
[]Fierce TK feint (The invincibility in this can make one of her normals whiff if timed correctly. Yes, this requires quick fingers obviously. If this succeeds, you won’t have much time to do something. Since Viper’s normals are really slow, your only real options are going for a throw or backdashing.)
[]Short Burn Kick (Probably the least viable option. This is a safer alternative to using EX burn kick in the sense that you’ll just get hit out of the air instead of getting punished for the massive recovery EX burn kick has, but short burn kick may not work as good as you think. This will work if Sakura tries to go for a tick throw or a crouching normal, but this will actually lose to standing normals. I can’t remember if it’s Sakura’s crouching strong or crouching fierce that looks like a crouching uppercut, probably the latter, but I’m sure that hits Viper out of her short burn kick too.)
[]EX Burn Kick (A lot of Sakura’s awesome normals are her standing punches, and EX burn kick will hit standing opponents, but will leave you wide open if they crouch. This is definitely a super risky move, but if you are confident they are gonna pressure you with a ton of standing normals, then go for this. Be aware of any patterns she might use for normal pressure, especially after a blocked tatsu. Her arsenal doesn’t only include standing normals, as her crouching ones are very good too.)
[*]Throw (This is also risky, because Sakura has to be in your throw range, which isn’t always the case. You might be able to do this after a blocked short tatsu, but I’d have to test that. If you mash out a throw [3 frames] the moment you come out of blockstun, you will throw Sakura out of anything she throws out [likely a 3 frame normal] if she’s in throw range, because when a throw’s first active frame and a normal’s active frame both start on the exact same frame, throw will win 100% of the time).
[/LIST]
Incredibly important paragraph: Sakura’s normals are not only great for pressure, but so is her short tatsu. Her short tatsu pressure is the heart and soul of her lockdown. This is for the fact that her short tatsu will leave her at 0 frame advantage on block, which means Sakura will beat Viper with about 4 or 5 practical normals that Sakura would use that are at least 1-2 frames faster than any of Viper’s practical normals or specials. So unless you go for a reversal special with invincibility, then you’re gonna get counterhit to death. Your only other options are to block or backdash.
Now, I’m sure players will disagree with me on this, but I think you are almost obligated to find an escape to her pressure rather than just blocking, though you don’t necessarily have to do an action immediately to get you out. Delay it and be spontaneous, otherwise you could get read and destroyed. Using EX seismo or fierce TK to interrupt her pressure can make her think twice about her relentless pressure, which might make her use a few pauses in her pressure (this would be a great time to backdash or walk-up throw). Trust me, I know top players insist that blocking, especially with Viper, is important (and I agree entirely). But Sakura can lock you down *really well *to the point where she could just pressure you all day, unless you do one of the things I mentioned above. I guess if your blocking and reading is really good, you can just block until she tries to go for the tick throw, tech it, then backdash away (but if she reads that, she could just SRK you. Ahhh, the mind games and reading). However, backdashing in the corner might make you dodge a normal, but not the situation and pressure. Don’t forget, Sakura has her flower kick overhead, so you really need to focus.
However, if Sakura isn’t in on you, just play a zoning game. Her fireballs suck when she has to deal with your seismo’s (just seismo on reaction to her fireballs). In fact, the fireballs shouldn’t even trade, because you can just seismo -> sjc right over them. If you can hit a burn kick while she gets launched from the seismo, then do it. If the burn kick won’t reach, then sjc so you clear the fireball, use a short BK so you stop yourself from traveling further, then back dash right back into the same place you were to reset the situation, making her start back at square 1. From here, she’ll try to get in, so at this point you just need to be careful of her cr. forward, since that got buffed in AE. Beyond that, just play the AA game if she tries to jump in.
Rushing her down with your pressure isn’t necessarily a bad idea, but playing the zoning game is probably a better and safer option. Since Sakura is small, sometimes Viper’s burn kicks will whiff at heights and ranges that don’t normally whiff on most of the cast, so that’s kind of annoying. As a side note on that, I personally use roundhouse burn kick for crossups and such, but roundhouse BK seems to whiff more on Sakura than forward BK does. Just a personal suggestion to use forward BK, though.