Spot on how I feel about the twins.
I don’t know about that last quote I always move back and turtle my ass off until I get a chance to explode with vipers offence but that’s just me.
Edit: If he meant mentally then yeah I agree.
T.Hawks ultra 2 is rediculous now if you guys do not know yet… It catchs the following things:
Any and all burn kicks on start up/delyed start up
Auto corrects on Cross Ups is timed right
Catchs back dash
Catchs wake up knuckle
Catchs overhead
I’m a T.Hawk player but I think its beneficial for you guys to know that…
Uryo meant that you don’t have a reason to go defensive, because your comeback factor and damage output is so high that they should be scared of you and you can stay offensive; he didn’t mean be reckless or constantly rushing in, you just have to be able to keep your momentum most of the time.
@Joe Slayer, thanks but Viper’s wake up is shit and everything can stop her wake up shenanigans lol.
Oh I see make sense but I play defensive cause I don’t want to get hit by some random crap and ppl ARE scared of her that’s why they mash to get out of her mix-ups and I know your gonna say just bait that shit but I’ll eventually make a wrong read and get hit, lose my momentum and maybe get knocked down and that could be curtains, but at the same time I can make a right read and its curtains for them.
Edit: Whatever You/Uryo is right I’m just contradicting myself. My brain stops working after 1 sorry lol.
With the twins its good to be well practiced at fierce tk trade follow ups. Specifically for when you catch dive kicks. Unless I have meter, I’ve been going for just a far standing roundhouse if they’re in range (going for DAT STUN). dash up fierce tk is the old standard, insta burn kick is ok, super jump ex bk is pretty good, dash up Ultra is obviously the best option.
As for who the tougher twin to beat is, I’d actually say its about even, maybe a little bit harder to fight Yang, but honestly Yun does so much damage and his normals have such stupid range. Yangs normals are just so quick, I’ve been playing Jason Wilson’s (Dream Theater) Yang and he uses his normals in such a way as to just frame trap Viper unless my reversals are spot on and if they are, he usually just blocks lol.
Sesimo can still be useful if used properly. A lot of twin players like to backdash if they think a seismo is headed their way, I’ve managed to use ex tk to punish these at decent range but its risky because its pretty much just trying to predict a backdash and not react to or option select one.
I haven’t played many yangs but the yun match is annoying. I think the proper spacing for the Yun match is mid-screen where st.hk beats dive kick and from closer ranges st.mp/mk beat dive kick and just don’t let him get in cause he will fuck you up. Also I try not to stand still I’m always jumping around so he cant just ex.lunge punch and get in free, also if you manage to knock him down go IN on his ass don’t let him get any momentum back kill him from that one knock down.
I almost never use seismo cause if I whiff one he gets in free, only time I use seismo is if he’s trying to build meter full screen whiffing palm just to let him know that crap isn’t free or I might ex.seismo one of his dive kicks once in awhile. For the most part I just poke him with tks and try to stay mid-screen but once the match gets going it gets pretty random since both characters have bad defense and are basically trying to do the same thing before the other gets to do it first. This match seems to be whoever can get momentum first wins since theirs like no footsies in this match, both players are just gonna be jumping around trying to get the one hit into a knockdown.
The Yun you played was a scrub. They obviously didn’t know to change the timing and the button for the divekick to avoid those. 
lololol
Until you miss one seismo, and you just die. Defense can only get you so far with Viper - there are so many Viper-specific setups for a lot of characters, and her defensive options - although there are 3 - all suck.
lolololol. My best rival here is a Guy. You really think seismo pressure works when he has his flip? You miss a seismo = 180 damage + half-way into the corner for free. He also has an unblockable on you after a forward throw. You can hold down back, but you can’t hold it forever - his jump arc is in such a way that you can’t anti-air if he spaces it right during his pressure strings. Also, he can choose to drop down and make himself safe - which Viper can’t go under, since none of her moves lower her hitbox like Shotos (except sweep, but good luck using that shitty move - it doesn’t give the shoto effect, it just lowers it only oh-so-slightly).
d.lk comes out so fast that it beats deep DP attempts. Also, his problem is not his cr.mk - it’s his forward slash kicks. When they have a move that beats your entire library of special moves (they literally beat out your TKs, seismos, ex seismo, and BKs if spaced/timed right) and is pretty damn safe on block, they have no reason not to throw it out so often. I don’t know why you like cr.lk as an anti-wakeup setup - a lot of them will just throw you on wakeup. You have to play this matchup slow, and it’s manageable due to Viper’s damage output, but it’s a damn annoying matchup and definitely is not in Viper’s favor.
…if you get wrecked by walldive spam, try ex feinting out. Autocorrect U1 also works amazingly. If they’re doing raw walldives, superjump (neutral or back) hk will stuff him pretty easily. Vega’s a hard matchup due to his footsies, not his walldives. -_-
@ NeoBlood - idk what level the Yuns you play against are at but nothing of the sort worked against momochi or kindevu’s Yun. All Yun has to do is neutral jump to avoid seismos and if you try to make him land on a seismo he will dive kick and make you whiff. Trying to anti-air his dive kicks mean you can’t be paying attention to much else as he would be feinting neutral jumps to make you wait for it and that’s when he gets in very easily. Yun’s not even scared of Viper he can pretty much get in for free EX Zesshou Hohou and you’re screwed unless you miraculously get out because with his c.lp, s.lp OS s.mp puts your ass straight down and nothing you do will get you out; the only way to play this match as agreed on by both Kindevu, Momochi and Uryo is to go balls to the wall random and bait out up kicks and punish him
@ the guy who has problems with Vega - SJ backwards j.mp beats everything but you have to do it before he comes off the wall otherwise he grabs you for free. If they do it while you’re cornered neutral j.mk beats it if you get him before he can move away and then into you. Makoto’s footsies are fucking gdlk btw that was possibly the hardest footsie game I’ve ever had to play and I only played Viper against the japs; if he does that roll move if you hit c.mp at the right timing he can’t c.mp you back.
@Lainy Ima have to disagree with you on that her only move that avoids elbow from guy is c.hk, her c.mk can do it too one of my close friends main guy and we play for ages and I do it to his constantly, but it’s not avoiding the elbow that you’re doing, when you do a low forward you’re actually meant to hit guy’s legs before he hits your head.
@Lainy: Obviously the options i’ve posted as helpful don’t work every time. Nothing she has does. They are, however, very useful in my opinion. IMO, the cr. lk is an under-utilized tool. It’s among her faster normals, can double as a crouch-tech, and more importantly, even just 1 on block creates space so you can breathe. I use it in matches, especially ones where it’s nearly impossible to make wake-up reversals whiff with spaced jumps and bks (like Deejay), to condition them. It lets them know i am aware of both my options and theirs. It also lets them know that i’m their wake-up isn’t free, even if their wakeup reversal stops my ambiguous jump-in game. Basically, it lets those characters know i’m not gonna take their bullshit free wakeups. It makes them weight their options, and that provides something else for them to think about, and hesitate on, which is all Viper needs.
If you really want a catch-all answer for situations, you’re playing the wrong character. She’s all about conditioning, reading, and punishing. I’m just posting what I’ve found to be helpful, as it might help someone else who’s never considered the option, or the mentality of the matchup. It’s obviously not going to work for everyone.
Hi there,long time lurker first post in this thread. Learned a lot thanks guys.
I agree with Flook on how she feels about c lk and his approach of how to play the character in general . I think the hard part about Viper is not FFF,seismo seismo,etc (although those are obviously difficult), it’s all the THINKING you have to do ,quickly and on the fly.
I feel you have to know all your options,for every damn character in the game and all THEIR options too. And sometimes you just have to try stuff and see if it works,every little thing helps,every point of health you take from them makes a difference. Can’t remember how many times I lost with them having 50 or so points of health remaining.
On the topic of matchups. Makoto is hell, I feel she can shut you down pretty badly if you give her momentum. My questions:
-
Her normals are amazing, standing MP is a freaking wall. I’m trying to use standing MP or MK to at least trade with her and gain some space. TKs dont come soon enough /get beaten, BKs get beaten by it or I m doing the wrong version the BK
-
Air to air I m losing to her jump HP,mini blanka ball in the air haha. Any tips the or I should try to stay grounded an anti air with st HK?
-
Her overhead kick (tsurugi?),the one that looks like Adon’s. Eats my HP TK, I have ultra’d that on reaction but I 'd like other options. maybe well spaced lp tk ?
Thanks .
When you say your trying to trade with her st.mp you mean when she’s right in your face where she can hit you? If so just block mokoto’s usually do two st.mp which pushes them back making some space for you to try and get out but their going to do something obviously so you have to guess on how to get out usually back dash or ex.seismo works best.
Dont go air to air with her just AA accordingly with st.hk and hp.tk. For her axe kick I lp.tk under it to AA also st.hk might beat it depending on spacing but I’m not sure.
Thanks for the reply. Yes basically I’m looking for ways to get her off me. Sometimes they do one st mp and then forward + mp. I block everything but I eventually end up in the corner,and then it’s rape city.
Thanks for the axe kick advice,I will start doing that.
Not sure if this was found already, but whatever.
I read a few months ago that a jab TK could beat Dictator’s EX Psycho Crusher on his wakeup. I think I read that the TK had to be meaty, but that didn’t seem to make sense since Dictator has some startup invincibility with his EX Psycho Crusher (so if it was a reversal, it would punish the whiffed TK).
So, I found (thus far) that if you do a back throw, immediately jump up, and do a jab TK the moment you land, it will:
beat any normal he throws out except cr. short (the cr. short would practically need to be a reversal though. If it’s timed for a ground tech OS, the cr. short would lose).
beat a throw attempt
beat EX Psycho Crusher clean (reversal or a frame after)
trade with EX Scissor Kick in your favor (reversal and perhaps a frame after)
beat Psycho Crusher or Scissor Kick on counterhit if it’s not EX.
beat medium and heavy Super (I might be thinking of strong TK instead)
However, it will lose to:
a delayed EX Psycho Crusher or EX Scissor Kick
cr. short / ground tech OS (again, if it is thrown out early)
Ultra 1 and Ultra 2
light Super
headstomp or devil’s reverse (well, it will get him out of the situation, but he will fly over you and/or Viper will recover by the time he tries to hit you.)
teleport
You could use strong TK instead of jab for the barely added damage. This doesn’t actually change too much now that I think about it, except that he can beat you with a standing roundhouse (but he can’t do this when you do a jab TK).
Makoto match up seems like it goes either way depending on who has momentum but overall I find the match up in Makoto’s favor due to how much she can take command in the match up in a very short amount of time. Her reversal options seem to beat a lot of Viper’s oki game as well so you usually end up doing safe jumps with OS’ but if they choose Ultra 2 certain OS’ go out the window.
I find the match up very annoying at the moment and I don’t feel I’m outplaying Makoto when I take the win. I just I happened to guess right in certain situations and win from there.
I need help with sakura’s lk. tatsu pressure. I always get trapped in it, should i backdash?
^
Sak’s Tatsu is 0 on block, but her normals up close are faster than yours. So you can backdash/block, or whatever, it’s up to you, there’s no set thing you can do really.
hpTK feint will work wonders for you after you block the tatsu.
Or just hpTK if you have the balls.
But what if she grabs haha? But yeah, you have to take a chance or block.
I’ll come back with the Oni match-up later on, need to confirm a few things first but basically, Viper has the edge on this guy for several reasons IMO. But if he touches Viper, especially with a FADC combo, she goes down hard. Much more on this later.
Heads up, Yang has an unblockable vs Viper apparently: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TqhdDjlHvw&feature=player_embedded
I’ll look into ways to counter it(other than 1-frame blocking and the crouching method to make unblockables easier to 1-frame block.)
I’m pretty sure I’ve been hit by that Crossup Unblockable.At first I doubted if I blocked the right way,until I saw my replay,and saw that I did block properly.