Well someone had to create it.
So what are your thoughts? Like Bison’s changes? How are you fairing against the cast with all the changes? Any explanation of why Bison’s HK actually does a lot more damage than is listed in the change log? Does the buffs/nerfs to the other characters change Bison’s standing in the tier list?
st.hk doesn’t do more dmg than listed. Ever since AE came out if you manage to hit them with the move close enough it would do 110. Actually try and use it like I would say your supposed to AA and max range poking you only get 80 now 90.
Too early to say how he fares though I will lay bets that he’s gonna do worse overall.
Ok, can somebody help me understand WHY they keep making Bison worse and worse
Also how about a list of his latest limitations
well about bison changes:
• Double Knee Press - Changed light/medium/hard stun from 50 + 50 (100 total) to 100 + 50 (150 total). Lengthened hit stun by 1F on first hit for all versions, giving the attacker a possible +5F advantage when completing the fastest possible Double Knee Press -> EX Focus -> Dash.
i dont see much of a use for this , wasting alot of meter for little damage and stun , if anyone knows something useful please share =/
• Near Standing hard Kick/Far Standing hard Kick - Changed shallow hit damage from 80 to 90.
well just a damage increase
also there hidden nerfs to bison according to seth killian and kim1234 tweets =(
Kim1234. A well respect player in the community, he recently tweeted these thoughts after playing the latest release of the game.
*There are hidden buffs and nerfs in SSF4 AE v2012. Bison’s EX Psycho Crusher often whiffs from full screen ish distance. Headstomp trades a lot in the air.
what !!!? why they nerf the EX.psycho crasher at the end ??? head stomp nerf too ?? =/ there is no reason nerfs those moves there Not OP in any way =/
F U CrapCom
I can only hope there’s some logic involved in how they alter the game from version to version. Though, admittedly overpowering the twins would suggest that much of their approach has primarily to do with marketing.
Maybe the thinking goes like this:
X number of people complain about Bison. The number of Bison players = x/15. No matter what you do, you’re going to piss some group off, because nerfs and buffs are all part of a zero sum game (one character’s gain, is another character(s)'s loss), so better to piss off a fraction of the Bison players than the rest of the community. So, sad day for you Bison players.
Seth never said Bison specifically. Kim is clearly imagining things/placebo. There is absolutely ZERO stealth nerfs on Bison, especially in the areas he claimed. Bison works exactly the same except kicks people better with +10 and FADC frame advantage.
I told you…
there were no nerfs.
stealth nerfs were actually on other characters, NOT Bison. Some examples are Yun not being able to do ex bullshit punch to ultra anymore + about 3 other things, Makoto has added recovery off her backthrow, Dudley lost a character specific hard hitting combo (that actually worked on Bison) ect. Bison made it out without any nerfs but minor buffs, rejoice, don’t make posts saying he was nerfed when he wasn’t.
^^Agree^^
+10 dmg on roundhouse is always welcome, especially regarding AA. But ppl hating on the fadc buff - I don’t get it? I find it somewhat useful. Because sk fadc is now a 2frame into c. lp (s. lk, c. mk xx sk) it can be used consistently. So those 3/4 frame punishes (Rog/Makoto dash punch/ rekka ect.) can actually turn into 280-300 dmg. Paired with the knockback and the added stun I really like it.
He is going to remain a low tier character still.
Stop being melodramatic. Bison is not low tier. lol
Bison is top tier he just has some more even instead of winning matches now. Quit being babies
Bison has never seen the bottom in SF4 series.
I meant for no nerfs on bison, of course. I knew that report was vague.
I couldn’t say about other characters because I don’t know them. I know Bison.
the problem with bison is the lack of cheap damage.
Example Ryu “J.hk, cr.lp, Pause and DP FADC.” If ryu guesses right= big damage, if ryu guesses wrong= dash forward and apply more pressure.
This can be said for most of the non charge characters.
M bison on the other-hand does not have the luxury of cheap damage, every SK HS and PC must be meticulously spaced and accounted for.
In most fighting games each character needs a tool that will change how the opponent plays, this will result in a battle between perks.
Example (At St.Mk range.)
M.bisons mixup
Option 1
St.Mk
Win St.MK=80 90? damage Lose or “opponents options against this move.” Focus attack= Xdamage>80 90. Jumping towards bison=damage>300>80 90
Option 2
Dash and throw
Win=110 damge Lose=damage>110
Option 3
Cr.HK
Win=110+ Hard Knock-down Lose=damage>110
Option 4
L.Sk
Win=50+ Soft Knock-down Lose= Focus attack= Xdamage>50, Ne.J=Xdamage>50
Therefore M.bison<Random Play which is why he has never won a tourney
You get my point, for 50-50 situations M.bison will always be at the disadvantage due to this low damage output.
M.bison requires strategy as there’s, NO (cr.lp, cr.lp, Pause and DP.) NO (Mashing.) NO (Free wins.)
Trust me, once we get other fighters to market you will see alot of bison players excel.
I was in the lab and as expected st.hk whiffs on Giefs cr.hk.Since Giefs hurtbox got lower so he can make way through Sagats tiger shots.The good news is I can time cr.mp which if I have charge I can cancel into sk but it isn’t free you have to time it.You can also use cr.hp or st.hp but the timing isnt as brain dead as it was with st.hk in ae.Also of note might be placebo but his sweep seems shorter.
As far as FADC buff land st.cl fp xx sk FADC cr.lp st.lp st.lk cr.mk pc nets you around 320 damage.Which is around 80 damage more than st . cl fp xx pc.
Yun’s new recovery on dive kick means he eats slides.Also focus crouch tech os is so much better against him since it crumple divekicks. I think Guile is back to super so fuck guile… seriously fuck guile.It seems that seth,abel and akuma are the new top tier which Bison does decent against so we might get a pass in tourneys atleast til the copy japan mentality is over if it ever will be.
Bison still the same. No legitimate change. His normals make up for his lack of damage infliction period. No need to complain. His bad matchups might have gotten even tougher but I guess that’s Capcoms way of responding to all the Bison haters.
HURRRR DURRRRRR BROKEN CHARACTER EX PSYCHO BEATS EVERYTHING STANDING ROUNDHOUSE!..HES SO CHEAP LOL RIGHT XD
Seriously, these haters should play him and see how see if hes really easy to use.
If you want damage with Bison, go for frametraps.
Cr.MP X2 into Psycho LP leads to safe Psycho Cross.
100+80+96. Add 140 more if Psycho Cross connects. There you go. 416 damage.
Though Bison didn’t get much change, I don’t think the top tiers should have been nerfed much and I very much welcome the changes for most of the cast that people didn’t loathe fighting.
AE2012 would have been much more interesting if Fei/Yun/Yang can maul as hard as they did before with everyone buffing up. Just a small dive kick nerf like they have now would have sufficed a lot along with making their full TC’s punishable on block.
Finally got to play 2012 Bison at a local tournament today. HOLYSH!T!!! he feels so much smoother and the FADC stun combos are amazing. Anyone who says he got worst…is COMPLETELY WRONG. I love the new bison. PS: we got 4th in our 3v3 =) …about 10 teams signed up
Stealth nerfs? Interesting…btw grouchy are you grouchybusiness on live?