SRK's Bison 2017 Patch List

Street Fighter V M.Bison
1

Ok guys, we are fast approaching 2017 and [over at SF5 General](FINAL Features/Gameplay Improvements list for Capcom. *Sent to Capcom/Combofiend* they are compiling a list of suggestions to be sent to Capcom. This list may or may not impact Bison next season but we be damned if we didn’t give it a shot.

Please submit your Bison specific changes in this format:

Recommended change goes here in bold - please include what it was previously if possible. Justification goes here. Please keep this as short and concise as possible.

Order them from highest priority to lowest priority.

For the sake of simplicity please try to suggest no more than 10 Bison specific changes per post per user (these include gameplay and aesthetic suggestions).

The suggestions that appear more than twice in user’ lists will make it onto the final list for @“DevilJin 01” to send off, so pay attention to what others are suggesting.

2

Have his head stomp have different heights like in the SF2 series depending on what button you press and where the opponent is on the screen. In a nutshell make his head stomp and skull driver exactly the SF2 series

3

This is a perfect example of something that will be ignored completely.

Follow the format please.

4
  1. good AA; 8f cr.hp.

2)light normals should combo into medium; faster medium and hard buttons (no 3 frames), 8f cr hp, 5f cr.mp. 6f s.mp and cr.mk, 8f s.hk, Psycho Axe faster and plus 2.

  1. improve his special plus AND airborne Scissor Kick to pressure the opponents and moving forward (Nash’s Moonsault Slash LK version Is even on block, Mk Version Is plus +1 on block HK version Is plus +2 on bloc,k On hit: plus +3 for all versions) !!!, Inferno as an invincible reversal it should work as a DP, Blast should put juggle state EX full screen , Headpress better track, Devil Reverse faster EX Devil Reverse on hit not knock down the opponent.

  2. faster dash; 18f.

  3. more damage (like Necalli and Birdie),

  4. improve his Vskill faster; No counter hit state.

  5. improve his Vtrigger not deplete so fast, if we used a special it shouldn’t consume his VT only when we cancel special into special.

Bison should be a pressure and damage MOSTER he remains with his slow walkspeed, no 3 frame, no overhead; so he struggle to open other characters, those should be his weakness and more than justified.

5

Rework his VT so his specials only GAIN properties, but lose none. Make them have same framedata overall.
Having a stable moveset is important. When something costs a fucking lot to use, you shouldn’t have any kind of extra penalties. It just makes no sense and hurts his game overall.

Cr.LP 4f->3f.
This way, he being +1 actually means something.

Cr.HP startup 10f -> 8f. Bison needs better AA. He’s too vulnerable to jumps.
His design doesn’t work without reliable aas. Maybe it would with fast walkspeed or non-charge specials.

Dash forward duration reduced.
If input lag is reduced, it will become much more punishable and useless. Reducing its duration would make it a bit easier to Bison to get close, which he needs to deal damage. Otherwise, he’s completely vulnerable to downback.

Shadow Axe combos from S.MP naturally. +1 on hit. Meant for chargeless approaches for VTC.
This way, it will actually be useful for something without being overpowered.

Blast reworked. Frames 1-4 deals 80 damage and increased pushback, but small hitbox. Frames 5-9 deals 70 damage. Regular pushback and hitbox. Frames 10-12 deals 60 damage, has bigger hitbox, but weaker pushback.
Blast is underwhelming. Weak, vulnerable, leads into nothing and requires charge. This way, this could be a semi-zoning tool.

Scissors 150 stun. Bison’s stun output is too low because every special deals 100, which is not default.
Bison’s stun output is, for no good reason at all, weaker than average.

VT Activation 5f instead of 11.
Damage buff for vt activation. Might solve his damage issues. (he’ supposed to be a dmg dealer, but he’s quite average at hurting people).

Inferno’s active frames buffed by 6f.
Bison doesn’t lean forward during LP Inferno
Both of these changes might help Inferno become more of a neutral game tool, creating some kind of barrier for Bison. Together with Blast and AA changes, it will improve Bison’s defense, which is one of the worst and makes his stun value (950) make poor sense.

6

Give Bison a 3 frame light attack- This will effectively fix Bison’s issue with pressure against characters who can mash 3 frame lights to trade and escape pressure after a blocked Psycho axe.

Cr. Hp causes juggle state when used as an anti air attack or decrease the start up frames The risk/reward of AA’ing with a move this slow and with it’s current hitbox is not balanced.

Rework v-skill-It’s impractical to utilize in most match ups due to it’s start up and small hitbox that triggers the counter-fireball attack. This leaves him with only getting V gauge by default means. There are many ways to rework this move, but a better “counter box” is definitely needed.

**Better tracking and Hitboxes on all versions of headstomp ** This move misses too easily, even when done preemptively to counter a fire ball from Ken or Ryu, it will whiff due to them slightly moving forword during the fireball animation.

Knee press changed to be airborne state and goes over low attacks. Currently this move can be swept in the middle of the animation where his body his clearly off of the ground. The move needs more utility to Bison, right now it’s mainly just a combo ender from ranges that blast wont hit at.

** V-trigger Devil’s reverse can change to left or right sides of oppenent depending on punch button pressed or at least the attack height changes. It currently only comes from one direction and height**- Changing it this way allows the move to be used as a surprise, like I believe it was intended to be.

Specials used while in V-trigger should only drain V meter when cancelled into an ex move. Currently all specials used drain meter.- This allows Bison to stay in V-trigger longer and puts it in line with other V trigger’s like it. It takes him longer than most characters to get V trigger, yet the duration he keeps it is lower than most.

** Faster start up St. mk or cr. mk** Its very hard to contest characters within a range of about Ryu’s cr mk. Bisons medium buttons with significant range are too slow.

Increase Bison’s stun stamina to 1000-currently is 950-As a character with under average walk speed, damage output, lack of overhead, and lack of invincible reversal…I see no reason for his stun to be so low

7

Just gona add some ideas that you guys haven’t said:

Increase the range of HK and/or decrease its hurtbox - This whod give Bison better ways to counter poke.

**Increase flames range, make it safer and faster start up ** This whod help with AA and make stuff like max distance flame a thing, It whold not be safe but It whold be harder to punish at far ranges, Bison needs better ways to cheap.

Make L frames start up faster - This whod make using it against multi hit projectils better and you could combo lights into it, this way you could get something like cr LK, cr LP L Inferno into super making Bisons lights more dangerous and making empty jump low a more rewarding mix up.

8

  1. Beta 1: Dash forward 22f->17f. Too slow for a charge character. Need better movement

  2. Bison warp now with DP+3K or reverse DP+3K: moves forward or backward

  3. All VTrigger extra startup on special moves removed. Frame adv/active frames/etc kept as normal As long as his initial combos or style isn’t compromised, we shouldn’t be penalized for getting a power up.
    List of moves that startups affects bison’s combo/maneuvers:
    Knee Press->(16f/19f/22f/13f)
    EX inferno->(18f)
    Headpress->(38f)
    Other moves are not listed because they are completely different than their previous state

  4. Revamped VSkill: 3f startup/detects low attacks/free juggle/VTrigger cancelable VSkill in general bad to use. Should be reworked

  5. Add VT VSkill where it can absorb EX projectiles, faster recovery upon absorbing AND reflecting back

  6. crHP startup reduced 10f->7f need better AA options

  7. crHK startup reduced 15f->9f

  8. stHK reverted to beta 4 (8f/no hurtbox in front)

  9. Vtrigger activation decreased

  10. stLK: 4f->3f

EDIT:

  1. Reduce hitstop on 1st hit of scissor kicks/ inferno so its harder to Vreversal them
9

Give Bison a GTFO me move. AKA Bring back his Psycho Crusher. Make blast qcf+p

10

Just adding something that I don’t believe was said.

Make his EX head stomp have invincible frames on start up to release wake up pressure.

Everything else needed has been stated, lets hope for the best.

11

Guys let’s talk about Bison’s damage and what would be the most concise and straightforward change to address this.

I am referring to the fact that Bison’s ex cancels which require 2 full gauges not dealing enough damage to justify their use.

Should vex specials or vex cancels deal more damage? Should Bison’s CA deal more damage in VT? There is obviously a deficiency in Bison’s max damage output, and just saying ‘Buff Bison’s damage’ isn’t very helpful. We should come up something simple and direct to suggest and implement that addresses this problem totally.

12

Make his move commands like Claw’s in SF5. In other words, not a charge character

13
14

about the damage for the sake of comparison:

Bison CC without burn EX meter 288, Ryu can reach 332 WITHOUT meter!!! Bison CC all deal 96, Ryu´s 108; Bison hp and hk 80 counter 96. Ryu hp and hk 90!!.

in regards his Vtrigger maybe cancel special into special without being EX; or with one bar we could do 2 EX moves (this wouldn’t apply for his CA), a 3 bars Vtrigger which has more requirements apart from being activated is NOT good.

precisely for this I want improve special; that way like Ryu or Nash we wouldn’t spend his ex that much.

15

To anyone that wants motion inputs, plz kindly play another character. Bison has a bunch of issues but being charge is not one of em, especially with how short charge times are in SFV.

16

Increasing all specials damage by 20 and 50 stun (VT versions to), maybe not all specials but some like Flames, EX Flames and EX SKs. @Daemos you talked about damage but Bison also needs to do more stun.

17

I mainly havent said anything about the stun and damage because I truly believe that everyone’s stun and damage will be reduced in further down the line. But yeah, His stun and damage output is lower than most.

18

Honestly, when you are on the receiving end of a Bison CC VT combo, you can feel that damage. I’m guessing the idea is that Bison gets scary damage wise only when in V-Trigger. The problem is that his V-Trigger loses tools and doesn’t solve the problem of getting the damage in.

In my opinion, if I had to choose between more damage or stronger neutral, I’d go with stronger neutral. I want better frame data and hitboxes. Cr.HP buff is the buff we need the most but a few tweaks to all his buttons and specials will do great by him even without damage buffs. I also like the idea of a 3 frame v-skill. It could be our “wake up jab”. If V-Skill is 3f startup, recovers slightly faster and blocks low attacks, it is very meaningful for Bison. I’m also all for an 8f s.HK. So I guess I’m saying I like cerberusfx’s list.

19

Without a lot of deep thinking… and probably not the best of state of mind after taking mad L’s online… but here goes…

[list=1]
[] **Widen psycho shot hit box. **It was nerfed for good reason and it barely has any good utility outside of 1 or 2 meaty setups. The range is just plain awful.
[] **s.HK, trim 1f start up, increase 1f active. **Was nerfed. It was better and is necessary now.
[] +2 on blocked Psycho Axe. +1 is nothing when half the cast has good 3-4f attacks. This move needs to be a bit better if his game plan revolves around using it to mix up and pressure.
[] -3 on blocked s.MP~df.HP target combo. This move sucks and has no great purpose unless you’re of the 5% of players that actively use this to hit confirm. Punishing with a guaranteed counter never starts with this either. Woshige, plz.
[] Make s.MP~df.HP combo naturally without counter hit or just remove it.
[] -3 on LK Knee Press, -1 for MK, 0 for HK… Make this move great again. There isn’t enough good traps for Bison.
[] Fix headstomp tracking… good reads whiff? Come the fuck on.
[] **8f c.HP startup, **I a good reliable AA and it shouldn’t be jump back jab…
[] 3f jab. Because it’s either this or +2f Psycho Axe on block.
[] 10% to 15% more damage, stun, and meter gain across the board. Not a flat everything in crease, but I would like to see some damage trickling in on like MK, s.HP, TC, and specials. His damage is low considering it’s hard to get good footsie and shimmies due to speed. But when he lands a hit, it needs to count. And a lot of his damage does come off of 1-3EX (VTriggered) sequences. Increasing meter gain is another venue of balance that can be looked at.
[] Increase his forward movement speed. There’s no need to explain. He needs it. Can anybody even justify leaving him at being the slowest moving character???
[] Increase grey damage off V-Reversal. Make that blocked df.HP even more menacing. This character gets disrespected so much :stuck_out_tongue:
[/list]

I’m not even done yet, lemme cool off and return after I’m refreshed this week… oh boy…

20

Yesterday was the first time in almost 30 years of gaming, that I smashed a piece of hardware. In that case a controller.

Just give me a damn working AA (faster and/or more damage), Fix the Headstomp, and something to get away from the stupid constant 50/50 guessing shit on wakeup. If I want success to be dependant on luck, my hobby would be the lottery.
My first choice for this would be EX-SK. Since Bison needs his EX to deal decent damage, it is still fair to use the move to safely wakeup. Same principle as with his V-Reversal, which also takes away from him everytime you are forced to use it.
After all, it is the freaking BOSS, evil mastermind and whatever of the game. He should not be reduced to a helpless kitten, after ONE unfortunate knockdown.

And maybe remove anti-air jabs from everyone. That is so indescribably stupid stuff…