blooper = what cam?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2144/1654966696_17a3206bcb.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2075/1654963916_127a08a0fd.jpg
more
B&W print film is amazing compared to their color counterpart. B&W negatives have a better longevity than color negatives. So getting reprints of them is far more feasible over the course of time. Tri-X and T-max are brilliant, though you would most likely have to develop it yourself. There are some C-41 b&w films that you can use, but sometimes they arenāt developed perfectly by the labs, resulting in tinted prints.
B&W is good stuff and frankly, itāll never go out of style. Itās definitely worth the extra cost.
350D =D
i like tthose that you just posted. nice sense of depth and distance. great comp:wgrin:
This has been a pretty crazy weekend. I shot another show tonight. It was a backyard one, so the lighting was pretty poor, but it forced to use a flash, which is kind of good. One of the things about post production on photos from something Iām new to, you can see me becoming less and less crappy with my shots as time goes on. And for that reason, Iām only posting pictures of the last band that playedā¦
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2033/2116796783_c463102aa7.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2102/2116797335_68d038ae3a.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2090/2117577300_8464d5b34c.jpg
And MaybeMemories, I love how full of style those shots are. What are you using to shoot them?
I really want to get started on this but the month of December has been SUPER busy for me. Iām possibly in the middle of buying a place, 9 billion holiday parties to attend, shopping plus I need to pack to fly home for the holidays.
So my point is Rei - PLEASE donāt think this has been a waste of time. Iāve been reading all of this at work and itās been interesting stuff to say the least. After the holidays I think everyone will be more free to focus on it.
Derek Daniels
i think this is good stuff tooā¦
ill probably get in on this once i unpack and find my camera and gearā¦
Man, ill get on this tooā¦ IF i get a new camera.
Would this work with a Canon powershot a620
Like I said in the first post, all you need is the sun and some foil, so go for it. The photos come from the person holding the camera, not the abilities of the camera.
Good to know, as I was going to let it die and let it go. But since I see there is interest, I will post another key/fill combo for those interested.
So, here we go. This is the setup that I use most often with large groups.
The key light is a Canon 580ex fired into a silver umbrella, with a on camera 580ex in master mode giving me the fill. There is a chair at the base of the key light so that I can keep the lens on-axis with the key light.
I canāt show the portraits from the shoot, but I took some pictures of Squirtle to show you how this ends up looking.
It is important to note that there is no visible shadow behind squirtle, which is the purpose of aligning both the key and the fill in line with the lens. The shadow is still there, it just drops down and behind. If you have a bounce card and a hot shoe flash that lets you bounce light, you can get the same effect as I did with my set-up above. You bounce the majority of the light off the ceiling, and then bounce a small amount of light against a bounce card for a fill. Like soā¦
Notice, that in this view of the shot, there are shadows against the wall. Those disappear when the flash is on axis with the camera. This is why using a bounce card or a flash bracket is so common.
As a basis for comparison, where is a shot of squirtle with a standard key/fill coming from right and left.
As you can see, the two flashes create shadows on the wall, and when you have 20+ heads against the backdrop in a group photo, 40+ shadows looks terrible.
On camera flash doesnāt look much better, because most on camera flashes are not on axis with the lens, so they also create a shadow, as shown below.
So, if you want to create a key and fill, all you need is a flash with a swivel head and a bounce card. I already posted this on the photographers thread, but here is a link again to a youtube vid that shows how to make a great bounce card with a couple of bucks worth of material.
[media=youtube]RNCmuExlHvM[/media]
Now for some notes for anyone that is interested in what I have in the bag.
In the bag, at the base of the light stand, are a pair of Canon T2 (film) cameras with 28-105/F3.5-4.5, a pair of ābackupā flashes (Nikon SB-26s). The backdrop is a 24 ft wide muslin from westcott.
I have a few 28 primes, but in this instance, I opt for the zoom lens at 28. Iāve been asked why I donāt shoot with the prime indoors with low light. The simple answer is depth of field. If you are shooting three rows of people in a large group shot, the depth of field has to be at least 4 feet deep. Which means that I have to be in the ballpark of F/9-F/11 anyway. A prime does little good in that situation, and the only thing that helps keep a deep depth of field is more light. Two 580s at max power barely does the job, and I have used three in some cases.
Also, Iāve been asked why I carry two Nikon SB-26 flashes in a canon bag.
Let me first say that the Nikon SB-26 is TOP FUCKING TIER!!!
Everyone should own at least two. I own six. I mainly shoot canon, and I own six. Three things to know about the SB-26. 1. It is 100 bucks on ebay. 2. It has the same guide number as the Canon 550, which means it is more powerful than the Canon 430ex and 420ex. 3. It has both an optical slave and a PC sync jack, which means that you can optical slave it from canon flashes if you are using full manual mode (and not ttl), and you can use a PC sync on the higher end canons, or use a hotshoe PC sync adapter on any camera that has a hot shoe.
Did I mention that you can get it for 100 bucks.
If one of the 580s fail, I can just switch to manual mode, stick a SB-26 on the umbrella stand, and shoot with the optical slave mode. I also use the SB-26 as the backup system for my Alien Bees studio strobes.
If you ever shoot in manual mode with a flash, the SB-26 is something to consider.
Hmm I want to give this a try too. But I donāt have much equipment so Iāll have to do some ghetto productions on different days.
Just a quick question before I discuss my thoughts on your band photos. What equipment do you have? (As in, everything that you have available in your bag of tricks.)
^ I use a Canon 40D, a Canon 17-40F4L , a Canon 70-200 F4L, and also a Canon 50 F1.8 and 200 F2.8 which rarely ever get used. Both the L lenses have UV filters on the front for protection and I carry some neutral density filters, so I can get down to 1/15th of a second in daylight.
I also own (but donāt carry) a Canon 230EX(?) Flash. Iāve never needed a flash until that backyard show and then I just made way with my on camera flash. I discussed it with my photo teacher and he said that if I continue to shot no light situations like backyard shows I should invest in an off camera flash tether (I donāt if that whatās called, but I know what it is). It made sense to me, and Iāll probably pick one up after Christmas.
Wow, interesting green. Reminds me of Great Expectations.
First, the comment on the pictures.
They look amateur. Not trying to knock you or anything, but it is just a thing that amateur photographers end up āgoing for the unique lookā not as a matter of anything beyond the fact that they canāt get any other look from their available equipment, and they havenāt learned how to make flash photography look like there was no flash involved in the photo. So, you have several tale-tale signs of sub-optimal lighting conditions. Motion blur, slow speed flash sync, crazy color balance due to stage light gels, etc. Typically, what separates the pros from the scrubs is that the pros CHOOSE to have those effects, and arenāt forced into those effects.
So, with that said, I have to say that Iām on board with your photo teacher. He seems to be steering you in the right direction. The Canon 220ex is pretty much useless, and you wonāt get much use out of it when you are trying to do things on purpose. It only works in ttl mode, doesnāt work in ettl mode, and doesnāt work in manual mode or off camera. Plus, the guide isnāt much more than your on-camera flash, so I canāt see any good uses for it.
The best case scenario for you is to get two 580exIIās and a ST-E2. About 920.00 bucks, but if you go pro, this is easily worth it.
Of course, you can always just get two Nikon SB-26s, and set them on optical slave, and use your on camera flash w/ your camera on manual mode to trigger them off camera. That will set you back about 200 dollars on ebay, for both of them.
And, there are other options in between to suit whatever budget you have. I think the sweet spot between budget and utility is getting three 550exās. Off of ebay, that would come in at around 700 dollars. You would be able to do everything that I have ever had to do as a professional with three 550āsā¦ but I digressā¦ I can talk gear all day, and will freely give my opinions on all manner of gear if you want. Back to the band photosā¦
Here is the first thing that you have to understand, otherwise nothing Iām about to say makes sense. The distance between the flash and the thing getting photographed determines the exposure. So, if your flash is off camera, and your subject is always the same distance from the flash, no matter where the camera goes, and what the camera does, the exposure stays the same.
With that in mind, here is how most professionals shoot concerts. They set up a flash in with the stage lighting, and a rim light behind the band, both remotely triggered. If the stage lighting has gels, you put gels over the flashes to match the stage lighting, and all of a sudden, you are back at F9@1/90 with all the lighting looking like it is natural stage lighting. If you want motion blur, then you back off on the power of the flash, but the point is that you can now control IF you get those effects.
The best case scenario is that you have two 580/550s clamped to the stage lighting truss using a bogen superclamp, and either a ST-E2 or 580/550 on camera. This way, you have low light AF assist on camera, and can shoot with the remote flashes on P-mode with ettl.
The least expensive scenario is having two Nikon SB-26s clamped to the stage lighting truss using a 99 cent clamp from home depot, and use your on camera pop-up flash to remote trigger the SB-26ās optical slaves. You have to shoot manual mode, but remember when I said that if the subject and the flash donāt move, your exposure stays the same? Once you chimp your way to the correct manual exposure, since your flashes on stage donāt move, you can go where ever you want and your exposure stays the same. An added bonus is that the flash doesnāt care what your shutter speed is, and only cares what your F/stop is, so if you want more blur or background, you leave your F/stop the same and back off your shutter speed. Conversely, if you want crisp action, you can speed up your shutter (as long as you donāt exceed your x-sync) and get less blur and darker backgrounds.
Did all of that make sense, or do you need me to explain something more? Does anyone else have any questions?
Sorry this question(s) is probably going to annoy you.
I think I really enjoy backlighting. Any random words of wisdom in that department?
I have no idea what kinds of equipment are best for that, and actually even what subject matter is good for that. I know I want to avoid lens flare at all costs because I hate that with a passion, and I assume thatās something to watch out for when doing backlit shots. For subjects, so far Iāve been doing backlit plants and trees and clouds and such but I feel itās really cliche and generic, I want to move onā¦ maybe people or something.
I also enjoy high contrast. And thereās a certain indescribable feeling I get when I enter a room thatās empty and hasnāt been used in a long time but I wouldnāt even begin to know how to capture that on film. Itās kind of an āah, life was here and now itās notā or āghost townā type of feel, and Iām sort of a fan of minimalism soā¦ I was thinking like an old dusty room at sunset from an odd angle. I just donāt know how to capture that feeling of āah, momentā.
Sadly Iām on an immensely tight budget so whatever kind of equipment I get will probably be from this Holidayās gifts and such, heh. 
Errā¦ well I guess my question is a little too broad and newbish, sorry. To narrow it down, is there a first step I should be working on with blacklighting?
Damn, thanks for that description. Iāve actually been looking for someone to explain that to me, but I feel I need to clear some things.
Concert photography isnāt a serious hobby of mine. The shots from The Alpine were only the second time Iāve shot a concert and the backyard was the next day so I shot that to, because I was starting to get a vibe for it. I really just shoot shows, because it forces me to become familiar with my equipment and I enjoy the environment.
First off I know the color balance sucks. I didnāt bother messing with most of the photos, because theyāre not going to be printed, and not that many people actually see them. Also, just so you know Iām not shooting in Auto. Blurred shoots are shot at 1/15th at F4 and the flash shots are shot on bulb at F4.
When you say my shots look amateurish are you referring to all of them or just the flash shots? I know the shots from the backyard show look like crap.
I can stop action just fine as can be seen from the first set of photos from The Alpine post. The motion blur from in those photos is completely intentional. Itās something that I have been messing around for quite a while and I really enjoy it. I havenāt exactly figured how to work into concert photography, because like I previously mentioned I never bother with it.
My real interest in photography lies in photojournalism. Thatās probably hard to tell from the stuff I post in this thread, but thatās what Iāve been putting most of my thought into. All my favorite shots have been taken at 1/15th of a second, so the challenge Iāve put forth for myself for my next semester of school is to shoot hard news at that shutter speed. Iām not sure if it will, but Iām pretty sure I can make it work. Thatās why I go out and shoot things like random concerts and backyards show, because I become more consistent with slower shutter speeds.
Thats why I have no interest in flashes because except for those situations where they are absolutely necessary (See:backyard shows). I do want to become familiar with flashes so that Iām not left in the dark (huzzah) in situations where I need to get a photo, but theyāre pretty damn rare.
PS: I just turned 17, so while I am lucky to have a decent photo budget itās not that flexible.
PPS: Probably shouldnāt have written this at 4 AM, hope it makes sense.
Here is the deal, you donāt want to do backlighting. Backlighting causes exposure problems and lens flaring. Backlighting is when you are shooting INTO the key light. Basically, the key light is in the frame, or close enough to being in the frame to cause lens flaring. A lens hood will prevent a lot of lens flaring issues, but generally you donāt want to backlight because you have to make a difficult choice. That choice is either the stuff in the picture is exposed properly and all the backlighting is overexposed and blown out OR the backlighting is exposed properly and everything else is not visible because it is dark.
What you want to do, is Rim Lighting, also known as Hair Lighting. Most of the time, rim lighting is used to separate the subject from the background if both the subject and the background are the same color. So, if you have a person with black hair against a dark sky, most of the time people are only able to capture a face, and the dark hair blends into the sky, and no one can tell what the proper shape of the head is. If you add a rim light, it creates a soft āoutlineā around the black hair, and give lots of definition and depth to the photo. You see this done lots with plants because everything is green-on-green and without a rim light, the foreground plants blend into the background.
Basically, you want to do one of two things.
-
You want the most powerful flash you can find. Put the sun behind your subject, and then you will see that all of your subject is in shade, and your background is overexposed. (You can only do this in the morning or the evening, unless you find some way to move the sun) Set your exposure so the background is exposed correctly. Then hit your subject with enough flash so that your subject has the same exposure value as the background. Presto! Instant rim light. BTW, Socal peeps can go to Point Dune at sunset during the summer and see at least a half dozen pro photographers using this technique to do engagement photos.
-
Aluminum Foil. Go out during the day, and use a sheet of foil to reflect the sun towards your camera, and then put your subject between your camera and the foil, and you have a rim light.
You will notice that I recommend foil a lot. During the first two years of doing photography for a living, I was using those pop-up sun reflector things that go into the windshields of parked cars as a ghetto fill light and ghetto rim light. These days I use an Alien Bees 5-in-1 reflector kit, but a 9 dollar reflector from autozone and a 99 cent clamp from home depot works just as well. Heck, some tin foil and cardboard works just as well. Once you get good at doing either of the two methods that I explained, you will have an easy time wrapping your mind around the basics of doing three-point studio lighting, which is essentially a key, fill and rim light.
First off, Iām going to break up my responses to address individual parts of your post. Donāt take what Iām about to say as being negative. I see lots of potential in your work, but the only real way to help you improve is to address your weaknesses and learn how to step up to the next level. Essentially, I see you doing wake-up super over and over, and I would like to teach you how to do hit-confirm.
Everything. Not in a bad way, but you have to understand that I work in a photography company, and I work with lots of photographers. I get to see lots of film shot by lots of people, all of whom claim pro status. I say claim, because in general, a monkey on p-mode can make a living doing photography. However, the skilled pros do something that the scrubs and noobs donāt do consistently. All of their film is dense, and there is no work done in post. In other words, there are no blown out highlights, and all of the shadows are within a stop of the main exposure. Not only that, but if the highlights or shadows are out of range, this is done on purpose. Amateurs generally donāt have the fine-tuned control.
If you learn how to color balance in the camera, then this isnāt an issue. If you are doing things on purpose, then it is possible to get these things correct, in camera, before you press the shutter.
One of the things that you will find if you pursue photography more is that you can make more money, and be faster and more effective if you get things right before you press the shutter. You donāt need to spend tons of time in photoshop on a picture doing color balance or other similar tweaks if you had done those tweaks in camera. If you can get the final printed image, raw, from the camera, then you will be able to spend more time shooting, and using film becomes easier.
About 90 percent of what a PJ does is āmugs,ā or what you were calling āsnapshots.ā The rest is all lifestyle photography. All you need for that kind of photography is a 28-105 and a flash bracket. Put it on P-mode, and stick a fork in it.
What would help you grow as a photographer is to start doing A-roll and B-roll style submissions. Do your standard mugs for your A-roll, and then do a B-roll of the same subject with whatever experimental or new concept that you are working on.
Donāt be the guy in the arcade that refuses to learn any character but Q. No offense to Silvergear or Cigarbob (Re: Q), but if you are going to get to the top, you are going to need to learn the whole game.
If you want to get pro level shots, you are going to have to start using a flash off camera, during the day and in manual mode.
Just remember, dollar for dollar, pound for pound, flashes will consistently give you better images than better glass.
Fair enough. That (awesome) analogy tells me that you can see the problems that I have in my photos but I a) havenā really known how to deal with them and b) havenāt had anyone criticize me about them. I canāt tell you how long Iāve been waiting for someone to shoot down my work and have valid reasons for it. Trust me when I say that I want to learn what I need to, to be successful.
I hadnāt been to concerned on reaching that level of control you were talking about, because it seemed so out of reach for someone like me at this point in time. Hopefully this SRK photo thing will work out to be much more informative than I was initially expecting.
So aside from in camera corrections and shooting with an āA/B rollā mindset, what else should I be thinking about for my photos?
And most of thanks for putting so much time in to this. :tup:
PS: I canāt even begin to explain how good the timing of all this happening is. Six months ago it would have been worthless for, but right now is freakishly perfect.
That is an entirely HUGE question.
I would start with coming to terms with the idea that a camera photographs exactly what is there.
It doesnāt.
At least, it doesnāt record the same thing that you saw in the viewfinder.
You see, the human eye has more than ten stops of dynamic range, and it automatically adjusts for color temperature changes. As a result, if you want to capture the same thing that the naked eye sees in the real life, you are going to have to manipulate the light so that everything in a shadow is within a stop and a half of all the highlights.
The only way that you can make the camera see what you are seeing is to start adding scrimms, reflectors, flashes and gels into the mix.
Which means that you need to start manipulating the lightā¦ on purpose.
the T1an its a cheap wide angle camera called ultronic, i got a few more from paris developed, i dont have a neg scanner but my friend got one so i decided not to get prints and im not sure if its cause of scanin the negs or low light but batch came out crap and i had to increase some highlights etc and now it looks totally photoshopped,
as i Rei mentioned himself, i aswell stay away from changing colorbalance and any sort of fake,cheating changes, i.e photoshop [POST processing].