Read my post and figure it out.
mIRC has been pointing out that controlling space has been a diminishing strategy in past few years; even more so when it involves doing so with projectiles. All that you’ve mentioned points to him being right.
That’s what I figured he was arguing, but diminishing strategy in the past few years is wrong really. It’s been diminishing since Alpha 2. If you count other games that released around that time, games like the first Killer Instinct pretty much gave everyone a move that moved through projectiles. Older games got reduced to button based zoning at best, then SFIV tried to bring a bit of it back, but otherwise killed it with characters like Fuerte, Yun, Seth, Viper and others who just invade zoning based neutral too easily.
The top tiers in most games in general for the past 15 to 20 years have been characters that blow up the characters that are good at zoning.
I would say the answer is a resounding yes
Even with all of the tools, Vanilla had the best options for zoning and then they murdered it slowly and brutally after that. Still even USF4 had more fireball walls than SF5 has had. Still that is more or less the premise mIRC has been arguing for since before the release the SF5. If you continually weaken space control then all that you’re left is a game which all the characters are working on the same gameplan with different tools. Out of the top 7 characters in SF5, Ryu, Ken, Karin, Cammy and Necalli more or less end up playing the same game. I didn’t think much of it until I read the SF5 player’s guide where all of it discussed being all up in somebody’s ass or at the “midrange” (that poorly defined space that helps nobody and says nothing but sounds cool.
what?
I mean I think the video I posted would meet his criterion for zoning; the vast majority of the time, after a DP or any sort of KD, Axl chose to set up sparrowhawk or use a different zoning tool rather than rush in for close-range pressure
Well it seems like fighting game devs are just adapting to the taste of modern gamers. And most modern gamers are not down with the zoning playstyle. many would rather see it gone all together.
Would. Eat. Booty. Like. Grocery.
Sorry, initially thought this was about the eddie video not the Axl one. The tricky part about mIRC’s premise is that it doesn’t really define parameters for zoning being successful in a game. How much time away from the opponent, level of activity, is the use of normals to keep an opponent at bay via long reach limbs count as zoning etc. With Guilty Gear you need a certain amount of respect about your opponent’s options. Even thought matches end up upclose, it can sometimes feel a lot like a boxing match in that there is a long interplay with being in and out of the corner, fighting over the middle space and on which terms the fight will be fought. SF5 does something similar but it misses the point: in SF5 the fight is mostly over who is going to dictate the offense and that’s about it; GG feels more like a legitimate exchange in a lot of places.
Some tools are hard to answer. Millia getting in so easily, Elphelt normals making everybody else’s largely irrelevant a majority of the time can sometimes cause a drain on the experience, but this is just shit that happens in fighting games.
This discussion should really be moved to the FGD lounge or as its own thread. Right now we should be discussing why is it that Ashley Martelle is in TBAHC territory and what she can do about it.
Got a youtube link? I must watch this with sound.
It sucks
Anyone can Zone when they have the collossus assist
Eh, the lounge is good because all kinds of things pop up and because of the people here, if fighting games come up for a while I see no reason why it should not be allowed, just the same as any other topic, if this conversation was in FGD it would probably be quite different since we have different people posting there.
Personally I rather like the zoning in GG and air dashers in general, yes, you usually want to convert advantages gained through zoining into your own pressure rather than just staying back tossing stuff all game but I fail to see why this is a bad thing for zoning, if anything it allows you to reap nice payouts from zoning, similar to the ones rushdown characters get rather than just slowly chipping away for tiny amounts of damage and having your life lead squashed as soon as the opponent gets in once.
It also doesn’t hurt that since movement options are so good in the likes of GG and other air dashers they tend to give zoners more fun tools to play with than “Here is your one and only fireball, it goes forward and if we’re feeling generous we’ll let you switch up the speed a little”.
Injustice 1 had great zoning characters until they brought in the dlc characters, almost every one of them being called an “anti-zoner” by devs.
LOL the infamous legacy of Deathstroke…
Daboog’s “I like my wrasslin how I like my women: slow, boring, and white” opinion should be ignored my fellow Loungers.
The whole Venom thing started because this dumb motherfucker keep saying that there is not zoning on GG.
Venom was one of many examples that was used to point the zoning game on GG, now he is lashing on it for whatever reason to mock the notion that he is a zonner, when no one said that he was a dedicated zoner.
Keep in mind that this is a discussion that has been going for ages, between him and other posters that at the end of the day simply started ignoring him because he always moves the goalposts and ignores whatever is told to him just to keep shouting his usual buffonery. It used to be worse because he kept going to all the threads to spam, troll and insult everyone who disagreed with him until he got banned, then he retorted to create alternate accounts to pester everyone who sonned his sorry ass on this discussions.
All of this becomes hilarious because he now comes and says that he likes UNIEL when in essence the meta is pretty similar to GG. Specially on how the zoning game is played as more like an strategy tht the player use to setup their own game rather than a game end.
Seeing how most of the fanbase kept asking for nerfs for Deathstroke is no wonder that the dlc characters ended as they did.
Lucky for me, despite how they tried to nerf Aquaman it really never worked and he kept being a solid character.
He quoted like 8 more gifs after I told him.
DONT ACT LIKE I NEVER TOLDYA
We aren’t at Akuma vs Scorpion (vs Wolverine, added in the sequel) yet. But I don’t know if we have any interesting, rewarding fighting games either. Nobody is pushing the envelope, charge characters died forever because nobody knows how to make one, and maybe they can’t make something good without having to appeal to one side so much (belt fetishists).
We have had people calling you (derogatory term) for not playing the girls with skulls when they gave that up after 1 month and don’t play it either! And 14 days later trolling in SFV threads with your online only B-Tier Bison level trolling, who even has time for that?!
Maybe Capcom isn’t pushing the envelope anymore, but there are plenty of other good fighters out there as far as I’m concerned