Spies like us: The MvC3 C.Viper Team/Matchup Discussion Thread

I feel that Strider is Viper’s best assist but that his DHC synergy with her is absolutely ass, they need a buffer zone in between each other.

Having access to Vajra assist dramatically improves Viper’s zoning game, covers her blind spot, can be used for unblockables, is an excellent combo extension, and over all somehow makes her even more of a threat than she already is. However something important to note is along with being able to utilize Strider well Viper’s beam negation properties on emergency combination also make her able to protect him better than the rest of the cast.

Because of this I wanted Viper/???/Strider then went about figuring out who I wanted in that middle slot and why. I came up with some general criteria for who should go in the second position and the more criteria I added the more I narrowed it down toward Firebrand, at first I was toying between Dante, Vergil, Doom, Zero and Dormammu for the slot then found this alternate fit I enjoy more.

First things first, the reason that Viper and Strider couldn’t be adjacent to one another so I wanted good DHC synergy preferably both to/from Viper and to/from Strider. Firebrand has my two favorite kinds of DHCs for Viper, a relatively high damage combo ender in his default 236 A+B super, and the equally important state change super for the best way to convert getting Viper out into having free pressure.

Because I had a lot of people who fit the above category I did some more searching for what would optimize the team and thought that someone who could make good use of both Viper and Strider’s assist/pressence was important. Firebrand having Viper on his team switches his damage from 550 or 600 K to 970K since he has situations where if he gets a hit he can dry tag into her for the rest of the combo, this is good for both meter and damage, getting rid of one of his primary issues. Also in luminous body he’s able to set up Viper unblockables all day every day.

The character needed to have good ways of both using and gaining gauge, luckily Firebrand is pretty good at both. If I DHC out of Viper I still get to build a lot of meter with him regardless of whether he’s in a state change or not so if I used the luminous body DHC then hit with my first mix up unlike with Dante, Vergil, etc, I’d still be gaining precious meter which is a big deal!

I wanted a character who had match ups against her blind spot characters, Firebrand is one of the few characters who has fuzzy guard jump loops on Zero because of how amazing his rush tools are. Along with this he can shoot from the air, being a major pest for Zero/Trish by controling air horizontal and diagonal, only guard breaking himself if he does the flame carpet version.

I already had my primary assist that covered the vertical so I wanted a fast start up horizontal assist I can use while pressuring at medium close range for both Viper and Strider. Demon missile M has very low start up, passes through enemies to be safe on block, is a single hit for scaling purposes, does 100K, and has a ridiculously long amount of hit stun against air opponents.

These are the primary reasons I have this team, I feel it’s very strong and can get work done regardless of what character dies. Giving any of the characters access to meter and X-factor is a serious threat because they go from hard to block to near impossible, and that they all contribute things to each other.

I really adore Strider/Firebrand pressure strings with demon missile, last night I managed to chip Wesker from full life with that pressure a few games and that was pretty substantial, the fact that by the time Strider died I had 5 bars didn’t hurt either (Was running the team as Strider/Firebrand/Viper in order to practice my new characters.) Firebrand, like Viper has great ways to use Strider, including setting up his unblockable against a lot of air opponents (someone flies and prepares to plink dash, summon Strider then start to charge 623C) I really don’t like the health of either of those 2, but I feel match up wise they actually do really well against a lot of problems. At this point I feel that Strider beats Magneto, Dormammu, Doom and Wesker while losing to Viper. Firebrand beats all tall crouchers, Trish, Zero, and likely others also while losing to Viper. The main time I likely shouldn’t run this team is against a Zero point, Viper anchor or some similar thing that lets people capitalize on match ups against all of these characters, however I don’t know how lopsided they will get/stay.

@Chrisis wouldnt Iron Fist be a better choice than Strider. He has more health, a really good pressure game, and very good synergy with Viper. His Rising Fang is a really good assist for Viper as it is in the air and goes almost full screen. It also does everything you mentioned about Strider assist and he has really good DHC synergy with Viper. Iron Fist seems to be a a good choice for Viper as well.

also whats the combo with Viper/Firebrand you use if you dont mind sharing the one that does 970k. im thinking of picking Firebrand up cause he looks really cool

You left out a somewhat important aspect: how well does this team color coördinate?

I don’t play viper all that much but when I was facing RR, her st.S completely whiffs. I guess you can confirm with seismos. She still seems to have a hard time hitting RR. I just thought I throw this out.

I’m pretty new to Marvel, haven’t really played vanilla but like to start now with Ultimate.

I played a lot of Viper in SSF4 and like to play her on point in this game as she looks fun and I get she’s pretty powerful. The execution shouldn’t be a problem I already can pull of most of the technical stuff and combos after an hour of training mode.

I played around with Firebrand and really like the character and stuff he has and figured the M Demon Missile could work really well with Viper. Chrisis’ write-up confirmed that.

But I’m not too familiar with the mechanics and team synergies and I’m looking for an anchor that works well with Viper/Firebrand. Taking Chrisis’ write-up, I don’t like Strider that much. I get that you can’t just play 3 characters you like in this game, but I’m looking for alternatives. Do you have any suggestions?

I would probably go for a lockdown assist then, such as Jam Session or Cold Star as both Viper and Firebrand can capitilize heavily on these with mixups and unblockables. Jam Session has the added benefit of air control but I find Cold Star to be a bit more useful on the ground. I suppose you could also look into Sentinel Drones and Bolts of Balthakk and such but I don’t like Sentinel or Strange as third, that’s my opinion.

@The_Destroyer:
I haven’t tried enough of Rising fang to confirm this, but it doesn’t really seem to cover the options that Vajra does and it’s attached to a character that I don’t feel is as strong either. As for the combo:
Firebrand on point, Viper in second:
2B, 2C + burn kick xx 236A, 2C, S, /-, B, B, C(2 hits) xx 236S, dry tag Viper, S /-, B, B, C, 9, B, C, S -/ Vajra, 623A xx 62369A, 623A xx 214A+B

@Qareen:
Viper 1, firebrand 4, Strider 5! :smiley:

@WWMajin:
I agree with Qareen here, a strong lock down or space control assist depending on how you want to play them, if you want to get in there I could definitely see cold star or shopping cart!

Thanks for your replies. I definitely like to get in there for mixups and shenanigans. I don’t know, as an anchor I imagine a character with a good assist but also works well with XFC lvl 3 and on his own, it will definitely come down to that more than once, especially in the beginning.

I fooled around with Amaterasu in Vanilla, definitely a viable option! From watching a few Marlin Pie matches I get that Cold Star is a pretty good assist for Viper (and Anti-Phoenix Cross-Combo doesn’t hurt as well :wink: ) but I’m a little worried of the “glass-cannon” factor of this team with all 3 characters having low health. Her X-Factor lvl 3 damage output isn’t that great either.

Shopping cart looks cheap but I really don’t like the leveling up mechanics of the character.

I like Iron Fist’s mechanics, the Rising Fang assist looks really good and he deals good damage on his own, but I guess he has trouble getting in on his own? Hm, hows Ryu’s Tatsu as a lockdown assist? Or may be Shuma with Mystic Ray or Smash? Your thoughts?

For Shuma, the ray looks good but when I used it it didnt work as well as I thought it would. Ryus tatsu im not too sure about but it could be good. Akuma’s tatsu is still good just not as good as before. Also try some of the new characters. Rocket Racoon’s pendulum or Iron Fists Rising Dragon work well. Im not sure about Novas barrier but it looks decent.

Also what do you guys think about using doctor strange with Viper. I know he goes really well with doom so im wondering if I should use him as my character in the middle. I was thinking of use the daggers or bolts assist. I like the daggers cause they track you but they are really slow and I already have hidden missiles so it seems better to go with bolts. any advice?

I want to ask about Hulk here, because I think he might be a threat to Ultimate Viper.

His 5C has always been a problem as Viper doesn’t deal with Armor the best, but it was always mitigated by either a bait or just zoning him, neither of which he could do anything about.

Now however, Hulk has two amazing new tools for F’ing Viper. Armored Charge gets cuts through Seismo’s like butter as they only have one hit, and his new impact punch gives Hulk a real hitconfirm so he can mash on amor in a pretty safe way. And he still has good ol’5C which can smash Vajra as well as Viper.

I wouldn’t go as so far as to say it’s in Hulks Favor, but with the right backup, I can see this as a solid Viper counter pick.

Random not: I think Hulk is very, very solid in this game, people are just ignoring him for the time being. That new gamma charge is an amazing neutral tool against alot of the to tiers, and his up close game is terrifying. Hulk is the meat and potatoes of a fighting game. Nothing really fancy, but he has all the bases covered pretty damned well.

I agree I played a Hulk and I had no idea what to do against him. His armor is frustrating to deal with as its not like Sentinel where you can jump or punish easily. Hulk has way more options but I think Viper can zone him out well with the right assist. It seems best to bait then advance guard and punish by calling an assist. I think Strider assist is very helpful in this matchup.

Ugh, Viper optimizes low damage characters so well, why is she so godlike?

Because Capcom buffed the best character in the game.

Seriously, something is wrong here, when I made that Strider vid, I noticed for most characters after the raw tag, they barely had enough hitstun to finish a launch combo (if at all). But Viper, I can practically do a full BnB… Something is wrong here.

I’ve been in the lab…and I think i can finally say strange will be replacing magneto on my team.
Now the hard part will be finding a new anchor.

coughstridercough

Actually, don’t do that. I had the idea since before the game came out, and now everyone’s figuring out the genius of the team and doing the same. D=

I don’t think Strange is that strong personally, but he’s got tools out the wazoo, so my evaluation could be way off.

I think he is good but he needs assists as things need to cover him so that he can get his setups

But his setups aren’t that good. Assist>Teleport isn’t exactly special.

Thats true but Dr. Strange can setup up little triangle things fire a beam and launch an eye of agamotto while the assists are pinning their opponents down. And Doctor Strange can also launch his own beam, and the eye of agamatto and then call an assist and teleport. It sounds good but I guess I gotta try it in a real match.

BUt after watching Chrisis play and your vids and the other talk here im gonna go with Strider assist. its just so good

I confess. I gave in. Gave in to the dark side. :expressionless:

As much as I dislike Dante, I had to put him as anchor on my team. Spider-Viper-Dante. The reason I did that is because both characters Spider/Viper are ‘point characters’ and need a really good assist to take care of them. There are alot of good assists, but Dante Jam Session takes care of more situations better than other assists. I hate I have to learn yet another ‘lots-of-training-mode-time’ character, but (as of right now), I feel like I have a solid team for once.

As for Dr. Strange, I had him on a team for a couple of weeks and even took him to a tournament (and got, what, top 8 or something out of around 30ish. not great but then again, I was using a new-character team vs. established Wesker and Phoenix teams that placed better). He is a really good character with more potential than pretty much any other character, but MAN he has some huge holes in his game. Strange is a point character that needs a team built around him, IMO. I don’t think he’s good for Viper, personally.

Aside from teleport, his movement is easily almost as bad as nemesis, but unlike nemesis, Strange’s normals aren’t nearly as good (they’re good, but not near the range, and has horrible recovery). He is the perverbial tank incarnate. In fact, even WITH his teleport, if you’re on the run defensively from teleporting Spiral Sword vergils, you only have risky options of getting out (counter teleport—which loses to mashers since he ends up really close to their back, regular teleport—which loses to certain normals especially sword normals, turtling and pushblock—which is more like a last resort for any marvel 3 character, and meter burning Reading Rainbow Spell of Vishanti—which still might result in a trade). Unless you have the character skill to back up his mistakes, he will eventually lose to top tiers that won’t respect his game in prolonged battles.