But then so wouldn’t Iron Fist’s assist. That assist looks like its really fast. And besides Iron Fist has the best theme song in umvc3
I think his Vajra (the teleport kick) assist is going to be godlike for anyone that can OTG up into a regular combo. From what I’ve read in his thread, it’s a tracking assist with a **hard knockdown **(you think they would have learned their lesson here already).
You could do Assist Call + H Seismo and confirm it into a combo from real far away.
The angle on Iron Fists assist bothers me, it also won’t work to lock down grounded opponents. I’m also looking at the possibility of strider as an anchor. XF3 and Uroburos looks really dumb. Also, Strider is looking better every time I see him, and Iron Fist looks like trash with an assist (ala Haggar).
I still worry about vulnerability on that assist. Plus, I like the applications of a horizontal assist in Vipers neutral. My play is very focused on my Unibeam back up currently and I would like to keep that dynamic.
Yeah, I’m going to have to agree with Ve on Fist Assist coined. It looks pretty good, but it does nothing for Viper that it doesn’t do for others, and we all know how much Viper’s touch game gets from the right assists. Besides, the wall bounce is unnecessary: Viper has no problems continuing her combos from any basic assist, and manages to do quite a bit of damage in the process.
It looks like a good throw-out-randomly-during-opponent’s-rush-down-or-just-randomly-in-general assist, but like Ve said, that really just makes it a tron/haggar assist.
For the record its not the wallbounce specifically that I am attracted to, it’s the ability to confirm from a Heavy strength Seismo in neutral, that shit is dirty.
ALso, is it just me or does Iron Fist assist wall bounce wierd? Like, it wallbounces, but most bounces the character bounces back at you, his they barely bounce off at all. I’m glad they made it hard to confirm from though.
Well the theme song was what I liked best about Iron Fist. lol. Also Viper in the middle is a good idae. I kinda like it also.
ive been using Trish(Low Voltage) Viper(Thunder Knuckle), Doctor Doom(Hidden Missiles). And I like this order because most people play thier heavest rush down charcater or best one on point and Trish takes care of them for me. This makes it so much easier with Viper to deal with the other characters. Also alot of people play characters such as Magneto, Dante, Taskmaster, or Amaterasu later. And I feel Trish has a hard time with those charcaters but Viper can fight against them really well.
So, I’m a hopeless optimist who thinks he can eventually learn to do decently with Viper online. Any tips for online Vipers? Specifically against wolvies?
Abuse focus and EX Thunder Knuckle. Pray.
Anyway, not sure if RR will work for my Zero/??/Viper team. His log assist looks like it could be really good, but good enough to hold down Zero alone? Not sure.
Okay, I’m wondering something:
Is Viper’s delayed unblockable set up with Jam session guarenteed against all characters without a double jump and without an air invincible/instant projectile eating move? I was playing against F-champ and it hit all air dash attempts at the point where air dashers were still unable to block (that tiny start up period) and it only failed against double jump characters.
I think I need to revise my master match up chart one more time before Ultimate comes out, I have only one match I think got harder and everything else I interpret as pretty dramatically in Viper’s favor assuming they have their best assist and she has a horizontal assist + jam session. Will revise shortly…
Okay, here’s that update to the match ups in my opinion, I’ve played people from a much broader variety of playstyles and types now. I’m doing double values for each character. The first match up is 1v1, the second assumes Viper has either Jam session or EM disruptor depending on what’s more efficient against them, and that the enemy has their best assist for making Viper’s life difficult. I’m removing bracket ranges though if things have uncertainty I’ll put them there.
[LIST]
[]Akuma 6-4 (6.5-3.5) [I played some more Akumas like Justin’s, this match is obnoxious, Viper still wins it, but light tatsu is amazing in too many situations and non beam fireball super is really decent against Viper when done at certain positions.] +1 (+1.5)
[]Amaterasu 6.5-3.5 (7.5-2.5) [Super jumping sword stuff is the main thing Ammy has for moving forward against Viper, this is a miserable match up with the speed of Viper’s dashing 2B to punish green reflector. Jam session ruins Ammy’s only good way of dealing with Viper entirely. >.<] +1.5 (+2.5)
[]Arthur 7.5-2.5 (8-2) [Be conscious of his meter, as long as Viper has seismic hammer and all of his things have as much start up and slow travel times as they do Viper will win significantly.] +2.5 (+3)
[]C. Viper 5-5 (3.5-6.5) [I have currently played every good Viper player that I see on streams; Marlin, K-beast, DJ-Divine, etc. This match is very based on controlling the pace of the match from the beginning, if you get in a bad situation blow any meter necessary to ruin the other Viper, EX seismo has no super flash and is 6 frames, dealing with it on reaction is hard/impossible. Viper with tatsu is probably Viper without Tatsu’s most miserable assisted match up. The only match I feel when she has Jam session or EM disruptor that she’s not winning.] +/-0 (-1.5)
[]Chris 7-3 (7.5-2.5) [I played a lot of exceptional Chris players. His super jump based zoning game is nowhere near as obnoxious as I thought it would be, but being patient is huge in this match up. I used to tri-jump too much but mines and grenades are very solid. If Viper is lame this match is super free. It’s just so tempting to rush in.] +2 (+2.5)
[]Chun Li 7.5-2.5 (8-2) [Chun’s tools are all risky against Viper, she requires assists to make the match at all tolerable and even then it’s miserable. Zoning her out is much safer than rushing her down since her rush down is actually okay. She can kill you off one hit on the right team just like everyone else.] +2.5 (+3)
[]Dante 6-4 (6.5-3.5) [She’s the best character in the game at fighting Dante sans Dark Phoenix, he can be scary, but I don’t feel I lose this match if I’m playing as well as my enemy is. When he has tatsu assist it’s much more annoying but still not enough to ruin your day. If quicksilver was legal to timer scam/chip scam Viper is the thing that’s necessary for him to win this match up, if that’s legal I put it in his favor 2.5-7.5 as he needs to get gauge first.] +1 (+1.5) <<-2.5>>
[]Felicia 6.5-3.5 (7.5-2.5) [After seeing other Felicias play I realize they aren’t as good as the one I play, she really can’t get in with the lack of seismo recovery. If she is inside Viper is slightly less screwed than the rest of the cast, Viper is one of the reasons she isn’t viable in Vanilla.] +1.5 (+2.5)
[]Haggar 8.5-1.5 (9-1) [This match up should not be won by Haggar, his options don’t work correctly against her and she’s too mobile for him to pin down with assists, she can blow up any assist call he does on reaction since he can’t defend them, this is probably one of the most lopsided match ups in the game.] +3.5 (+4)
[]Hsien Ko 7.5-2.5 (8.5-2) [Hsien-Ko is not mobile, she has no good way of dealing with Viper’s zoning and even if you choose to rush her down she simply isn’t scary. This character is just miserable in general. 
] +2.5 (+3.5)
[]Jill 6.5-3.5 (7-3) [I played an exceptional Jill, she’s powerful and obnoxious if she ever gets inside, that said Viper has all the tools to keep her out. This is one of the matches where I advocate being as lame as possible for as long as necessary as her mix up is incredibly strong and makes things like Berzerker Slash seem easy to block consistently.] +1.5 (+2)
[]Morrigan 6-4 (7.5-2.5) [This is one of the match ups that Jam session is required for, morrigan being lame is infinitely easier to deal with when you have it than when you don’t. I actually like thunder knuckles in this match up much more than normal.] +1 (+2.5)
[]Ryu 6.5-3.5 (7.5-2.5) [Ryu will learn quickly that he can’t shinku to punish your assists, Viper should be very conscious of meter and never go below 1 for this reason, I am greedy sometimes and have lost assists because I didn’t make sure to keep a meter at all times.] +1.5 (+2.5)
[]Spencer 6.5-3.5 (7-3) [The Spencer match is annoying because of the height he likes to move at, be patient and be very aware of your air throw and which situations it can be used in, always blow up his assists since his punishes don’t work on Viper for that situation.] +1.5 (+3)
[]Trish 4-6 (6-4) [I have fought some of the best Trish players aside from RDK, she’s very strong and one of the only people who beat Viper in an unassisted fight, that said Viper needs to patiently move forward and safely make a path for her jam sesion assist then kill Trish.] -1 (+1)
[]Tron Bonne 6.5-3.5 (7.5-2.5) [Her normals eating projectiles are slightly obnoxious, Viper can blow up everything about her and Tron can be instant overheaded into murder quite easily.] +1.5 (+2.5)
[]Viewtiful Joe 6-4 (7.5-2.5) [Set up pressure as if he has you in block stun he’s infinitely scarier than when you have him in block stun. Remember that thunder knuckles eat projectiles too, he’s more obnoxious than he should be.] +1 (+2.5)
[]Wesker 6-4 (6-4) [This match requires a lot of patience and understanding of his spacing patterns, I really don’t enjoy playing it when the Wesker does it right. This is one of the few matches where I feel he benefits more from having an assist than Viper does since her beneficial assists don’t really change the match up as much as his do. Remember not to get hit by disruptor assist if Wesker is on point] +1 (+1)
[]Zero 3.5-6.5 (5.5-4.5)[I’ve played more really good Zeros, without assists I feel he may be one of Viper’s worst match ups. He’s scarier than Trish for too many reasons and is able to deal with a lot of things well as long as he stays lame and doesn’t take risks. His mix up is very hard to block of course if he’s inside.] -1.5 (+.5)
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]Captain America 6.5-3.5 (7-3) [More fighting Captains for me, he’s a match you need to control the space of and understand where the gaps in his space control strings with slash + assist are. Match up experience is really helpful and it’s totally possible to be very confused about how to fight him and it’s very captain specific.] +1.5 (+2)
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]Deadpool 6-4 (7.5-2.5) [Take your time, don’t take risks and don’t get chipped, remember how to move around the areas he controls and always keep in mind that happy trigger super will murder assists if you block it but unlike beams you don’t get to kill the shots with Emergency combination well.] +1 (+2.5)
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[LIST]
[][Dormammu 7-3 (7.5-2.5) [Viper is very strong in this match up, Dormammu’s tools are all slow on defense and she get to blow up all of his options. She has actual answers to ball and other things and makes his life miserable in general. Remember to respect flame carpet and keep in mind that as long as you’re on the ground in 3/4 screen or less you’re at a massive safe advantage.] +2 (+2.5)
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[LIST]
[]Dr. Doom 6.5-3.5 (7.5-2.5) [You need to understand all of his options and not take too many risks, he hits exceptionally hard and his mix up is ridiculous. Defensively without Doom time he has limited options and this is a match I recommend playing within half screen for the most part. Respect X-factor cancels and his air to air. Remember how terrible the recovery on air finger lasers is and punish accordingly.] +1.5 (+2.5)
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[LIST]
[]Hulk 6.5-3.5 (7.5-2.5) [Hulk is a very strong character, but those strengths aren’t incredibly good against Viper, his pressure is moderately scary, but EX seismic hammer ruins his day while gamma wave is actually a very strong tool against Viper but gets blown up by her movement options into either hammer or assists.] +1.5 (+2.5)
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[LIST]
[]Iron Man 7-3 (7.5-2.5) [This character lets you punish him in a lot of weird situations, respect his normals but remember your hammer destroys him, take your time there’s no need to rush this match up and get blown up by erratic point blank proton cannons while you’re in the air.] +2 (+2.5)
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[LIST]
[]Magneto 6-4 (5.5-4.5) [Magneto is the only match up that I feel assists minimally help with when both of you have them, he can halt things just as fast as you and is more mobile. Aside from Viper mirror + tatsu I feel this is likely her worst match up.] +1 (+.5)
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]MODOK 5-5 (6-4) [MODOK with things set up actually makes life hard, he should be killed quickly, keep pressure on him constantly and remember the efficacy of air throw as a punish. If he does have things fully set up and assists going he can beat you so never let that happen.] +/-0 (+1)
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]Phoenix ++8.5-1.5++ –3-7– (2.5-7.5) [There are a lot of numbers attached to this match up since it doesn’t play like the others. On snap Viper gets to kill Phoenix, so having her in her traditional spot loses to Viper and does so badly. Phoenix once she’s already out beats Viper pretty soundly by being lame with super jump salty ball shenanigans. Phoenix with assists when on point is among Viper’s worst actual matches but you will never encounter it.] Hard to diagnose values since they change so much based on situation. +1.5 the average (-2.5)
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]Sentinel 7-3 (7.5-2.5) [Since Champ has gotten better at playing a lame air game with sentinel I realize the character is slightly less free, that said respect him but blow him up with constant hammers forever. If you rush him down be aware of his options.] +2 (+2.5)
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]She Hulk 6.5-3.5 (7.5-2.5) [I choke in this match up a lot, that said Viper wins it convincingly, be incredibly aware of She-Hulk’s slide and movement, don’t get hit.] +1.5 (+2.5)
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]Spider-Man 6-4 (7-3) [Spider-Man is a strong character that is incredibly under rated, being able to control space against him is abnormal and you need to use more movement options between seismos and rushing him down is actually beneficial, I find this match up irritating when the enemy is good at movement.] +1 (+2)
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]Shuma Gorath 7-3 (7.5-2.5) [His movement options are miserable against Viper, remember to punish mystic smash with either air throw, focus, or other options, his mix up is moderately annoying but nowhere near Jill levels of scary.] +2 (+2.5)
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]Storm 6-4 (6.5-3.5) [My previous statement was stupid, fighting Justin, Fanatiq, etc reminded me that she really is an actual character and when played exceptionally lame can make the match drone on.] +1 (+1.5)
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[LIST]
[]Super-Skrull 6.5-3.5 (7.5-2.5) [I’ve fought a lot of Skrulls recently for some reason, Viper has options to entirely negate his random factors and can control his space really well, this match is dramatically in her favor.] +1.5 (+2.5)
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[LIST]
[]Taskmaster 6.5-3.5 (7-3) [Viper blows up the things that often make Taskmaster obnoxious, respecting shield skills and his air normals is incredibly important. If you respect him enough and play a game where you slowly move forward staying just outside shield skills range unless you’re mixing him up it should be just dandy.] +1.5 (+2)
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[LIST]
[]Thor 6.5-3.5 (7.5-2.5) [Be aware of his air movement options and how to punish projectile negating things, he’s definitely less of a threat than other air mobile characters and the angles he covers aren’t exceptionally good against Viper.] +1.5 (+2.5)
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[LIST]
[]Wolverine 7.5-2.5 [6.5-3.5] [i’ve fought a lot of Wolverines of various levels, he has a chance to random Viper out just by his nature, that said she beats him pretty soundly and he needs tatsu to actually fight you, I found EX thunder knuckle is under rated in this match up. o.o Tatsu makes it much less terrible for him.] +2.5 (+1.5)
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[LIST]
[]X-23 6.5-3.5 (7.5-2.5) [If Viper’s in second and your first character gets hit they can choose to kill Viper, otherwise both being on point means Viper gets to blow her up very soundly] +1.5 (+2.5)
[/LIST]
OLDEST NUMBERS:~ +39.5 (Just did +/- 1 per bracket) (All characters included)
RELATIVELY OLD NUMBERS: +47.5 (Spider-man and Phoenix NOT included)
END OF VANILLA NUMBERS: All characters included
1 versus 1: +70.5
With Jam session or EM disruptor versus Enemy with whatever assist makes the match up hardest for Viper to fight: +75.5
Assists that give Viper the hardest time:
Tatsu: This assist is Viper’s worst match up more than any character, attach it to something and it’s instantly harder to control them.
Armored Hsien-Ko: Lasts a long time, blows through too many things.
Vertical Aim Master: Controls space against Viper exceptionally well when used with Magneto or Viper, this assist if it was used more would be a serious problem.
Gustav Fire: Eats projectiles, allows enemies to slowly advance, not too bad but still obnoxious.
EM disruptor: Fast, obnoxious space control
Horizontal Aim Master: High enough durability to often shut down other assists you use to control horizontal space. Mainly an issue when paired with Viper or Magneto.
I’m of course open to listen to opinions in order to fix anything that may be inaccurate on this list. If you have any questions about what I think should be done in any specific match up in order to make it this value also feel free to ask!
That’s a very sizable chunk of the current cast and most of the new characters.
I feel totally fraudulent with my Jam Session + Viper unblockables though. Here’s my understanding of it:
[LIST=1]
[]If you think they’re likely to block the Jam Session (and spam Advancing Guard to keep their height), you want to delay the Jam Session slightly so they fall to the height of the FA attack before they can start AG’ing. The downside here is that they get a little bit of breathing room to try something before the Jam Session starts to hit.
[]If you think they’re likely to air-dash, you want the Jam Session to hit sooner so you can hit them during the vulnerable frames of their air dash.
[*]If they have a double jump, either treat them like scenario 1, or try to air throw their double jump?
[/LIST]
What would you add/correct?
It depends on timing. If you delay the jam session slightly you give them a teensy window to do something. Depending on the character, that may or may not get them out. However, if you make the snap gapless, they will be able to AG out provided they do it perfectly (it ain’t super easy).
The best assist for Snap Focus traps is the repulsor blast. It actually lowers the character because of it’s erratic hit pattern making it nigh unstopable. In many matchups where I don’t need the unibeam, I will switch Iron Man over to repulsor for that reason.
1: Jam session delayed works regardless of whether they advance guard or not, the breathing room isn’t actually there unless they have something that will either kill the jam session, or move them out of the way before it would hit. I don’t believe any have the latter without incredible invinicibility, and only a few have the former (All of which have double jumps anyways.)
2: Air dashes have hittable frames at the beginning, delayed jam session punishes the air dash in this case and viper needs to dash cancel then super jump C, S, EX burn kick or some more effective combo to follow up the jam session.
3: For double jump you need to learn their tendencies, if you’re really good you can trijump late as heck C after their double jump and summon Dante into unblockable though that shiz is really hard to time and isn’t always 100%. If you have TK feints down you can use that after air block stun to beat them down.
Thanks both of you for the pointers 
I wish more video was available showing all of these options in action - I feel like it’s such an important part of her game plan that doesn’t get enough attention. Everyone’s focused on execution stuff to improve her neutral game, when this can potentially do the job before you even get to the neutral game.
Obviously you want to master both, but time is limited and it’s nice to get big returns for small investments. And this seems relatively easy compared to her other stuff, but with the biggest pay-offs.
Hey Chrisis can I ask why you think Wesker is at a disadvantage against Viper. Because I feel he has everything needed to handle her. The gun can stop her seismo spam if she doesnt get it going. He can teleport out of the corner. Im not sure if he can get passed Jam Session, I know he can get away from Hidden Missiles. He also has a ton of health. He has way too much health in my opinion, and its almost impossible to kill him in one combo. His normals are so good. They destroy Viper’s. He has a launcher you cant punish. I would take my chances against a wolverine/akuma player than a good wesker
Wesker is way better than Wolverine, so I don’t blame you there.
I always find it to be a match of patience. The way I look at the match is that both players pull about even in neutral (Viper usually crushes in neutral so this is weird). However, I would argue that Viper’s mid-range and air game are stronger because of Seismo, EX TK and Seismo, and the fact that she can confirm from alot better heights than wesker. Chrisis would know better, but I prefer to stick to midrange and the air, play cagey and when you get that opening abuse Wesker’s weaker defensive options.
Also, Wesker abuses assist better than any character in the game. Wesker+assist is a nightmare on another level above regular Wesker terror. As such I put alot of emphasis on killing assists. Vipers Emergency combination is really good for this. It has a shit ton of invul so you can absorb whatever he used to cover the assist (usually a gunshot) and then DHC into something to hurt it. I really like Iron Mans Proton gun for DHC’s here as the huge 360 burst before the beam is great if you reactions are a bit slow and Wesker gets a teleport behind in.
Wesker needs more than 1 touch at the beginning of the game to kill Viper, Viper does not need more than 1 touch to kill Wesker. If you make sure to avoi guns he’s really not that bad and with her mobility and hurt box it’s not too bad to avoid. Once you get in he takes a huge risk by using gun while your risk from seismic hammer is minimal, I just don’t have that sense of threat from him I do from Dante since his game is so much more limited. Also Viper has EX seismo which neutralizes half of why his game is scary since most people don’t have real reversals to deal with his command grab bullshiz.
Wesker’s game is limited in that his only real mixups involve guns and teleport to get in but I think it still makes him harder to deal with than dante. I cant escape the gun lockdown. I mentioned this team before but my friend plays Wesker/Mags/Dante and it is very frustrating to deal with. I dont feel as if Viper can deal with that combination or my Viper just needs work. usually I try to advance with seismos and tri-jumps but all he does is gunshot and it stops my seismoing. Am i not timing the seismos properly. And then I get hit by magneto beam and wesker stuff and Viper dies. I ended up just not using Viper against Wesker and killing Wesker with Trish.
Ive been having serious troubles vs Trish…seriously that bitch will NOT come down, I try to use jam session more often but its still pretty hard to catch her, specially if she has good assist backing her up like disruptor. I assume in ultimate it will be a biiit easier since she can only do 1 thing in the air, and ive been wondering if dr.Strange’s assist (daggers of denak) will help her to catch annoying runaway characters, the mai issue with that assist is that its very slow, but I guess u can call him and do a seismo barrage until they start tracking and go in, just my 2 cents and pure theory here.
Trish can still do 1 of each trap. Just remember she can only do 3 trap actions per jump before coming down with either a vertical drop or a dive kick. For the traps just block the third trap and grab the bitch. She can’t do much after that. And as far as her dive kick, X-factor cancel to punish, chicken block it for better frame advantage, or ex seismo it on the way down. Even though in UMVC3 the trap limit can be seen as a nerf, if you fight a competent keepaway Trish it will only encourage more keepaway with her flight mode so you’re still screwed because they buffed it so it can actually be used now. People just need to be more patient fighting her. Its no more annoying than SF4 zoning and she dies in one combo.