I was thinking about changing from Viper/Storm/(Deadpool/Morrigan) to Viper/Storm/(Dante/Dormammu). Would that be a better option for Viper? What are some good setups I can try with these teams?
I’ve tried Dorm before and his assists don’t really help viper out much. The pillar is nice but you have many more options if you just use Dante’s Jam session. Never tried morrigan out but the only good assist i would think you’d use is the uppercut to get people off of you. The fireball is too slow to start any offense and you really dont need the meter gain assist. Deadpool seems nicer and you get unblockable set-up with those two.
I’m not familiar with Dante’s assists, but what makes it different from Dormammu’s pillar?
Dorm’s pillar is stationary and really not as effective as Dante. With Dante’s Jam session it is fast and immediate almost. It is a great assist for unblockables in corner and a bit of lockdown. It also is a good GTFO me assist if they get too close.
Dorm’s Pillar also shoots the opponent into the stratosphere and is tougher to combo off of. It’s much easier to continue a combo off of Jam Session.
Dante’s assist has longer block stun and better combo opportunity on hit and is a very solid assist for Viper. Dark hole is what I use for Dormammu with her simply because I do not want people to be where they end up if it hits them whereas with Dark hole I just have a long hit confirm even if it goes into sub-par damage for Viper.
Dormammu’s best thing for Viper is probably on a kill Stalker flare dry tag murder dat fool.
Is that an official move name? 
Official to the Viper forums as of now. 
level 3 murder dat fool is unblockable.
Ive been using Viper/Magneto lately and I think they work pretty well together, but im missing 1 last character. Who would be the best choices to complement my 2 chars.???
Dante. Gives you a good horizontal assist and an amazing vertical/lockdown assist. Plus, as I’ve said before, you really can’t play Viper without Dante.
I agree with flyingVe that Dante is likely the best to compliment that team, though alternatively a strong reversal assist like Tron helps a lot as well.
viper does good without any help but yea a lockdown and projectile assist is good. i tried doom missiles for zoning with seismos pretty funny.
dante is great for viper.
K beast uses it well in the first match vs floe. good stuff.
Learning the wolverine/akuma assist match-up for Viper. Surprisingly enough there are a lot of defensive situations you can turn into ToD combos. Wolverine’s Dive kick isn’t nearly as good as people think it is if you know how to handle it.
On a regular jump if you allow Wolverines Divekick not to put you into hit/block stun while crouched. You can punish it with a cr.L. So standing and either eating a divekick or blocking it you actually have the frame advantage to hit wolverine after. If you get hit by a regular jump divekick (non counter-hit) while standing you have about +4 on his recovery. That is insane. So you can stuff anything else if you cr.L Granted the frames will vary here and there depending on how high they hit your or put you into blockstun but its amazing how unsafe it is. If you’re unsure about whether or not you can punish with light hit you can blow wolverine up with an EX.seismo.
Wolverine can block though and keep himself safe off of a regular jump divekick. But no real wolverine player realizes how unsafe this move is.
SJ wolverine divekick is a whole different scenario. Depending on how high they are they will hit the ground faster off a dive kick and recover faster to give them more frame advantage. I was able to punish blocked SJ Divekicks about mid way up but its really risky. And if you’re unsure or uncomfortable with your EX. Seismo punish here is a fun way to deal with divekicks.
Jump right before you get put into blockstun. Once you hit the ground your hit-stun will reset and free combo. Or if you’re good with ex.seismo go ahead and blow it up and destroy that mofo.
If you see a drill claw up close you know in 99% of cases a dive-kick follows. There is a very easy way to punish this. Instead of continuing to crouch block and give Wolverine the frame advantage you can start to walk backward just a little bit and the divekick will wiff. Recovery is an issue for Wolverine so full ToD combo for free right here.
Enough about divekicks.
I still think the most horrifying thing about wolverine is his berserker slash. Now I’m not sure how these tactics will play out in matches but im trying to find different ways to blow up wolverine/akuma tandem here. If you test out anything with wolverine There is one thing you should know is the properties and scenarios with berserker slash. Anything into st.M to m.berserker slash is their best option to do an instant cross-up without akuma assist. With the assist you can do either light berserker slash or medium berserker slash from st.M. I think the only other way to get a cross-up which i believe is scarier than st.m to m.BS is cr.l cr.l L.BS. Rough because the opponent can do a few crouching light hits before trying anything. These are the only close-up block-stun cross-ups that wolverine has. Very few.
This specific punish will punish any block-stun berserker slash set-up but the one I will be describing will use akuma assist. (This punish will punish anyone trying to Berserker rage into safety off of berserker slash as well.)
It is st.M+Tatsu Assist into M.BS or L.BS.
Now this set-up lets wolverine not have to use his berserker rage hyper to make him safe and the pop on Akuma’s tatsu just gives him more time to hit-confirm. Or on block he gets a free mix-up because of Akuma hit-stun. To stuff this the easiest thing I’ve found now is a trade. And this trade works out in Vipers favor.
on the st.M and i dont know if you will be able to ever hit-confirm this but this is a common COMMON set-up for good wolverines. If you look out for it then you can probably punish it. + You see it in all the top 8 teams in most tourneys so its common :]. If you can simply do an EX.TK where Wolverine will be. He will always be behind you in this scenario so prepare for that and do an EX.TK accordingly. Very rarely do you hit the akuma assist here but sometimes you do which is okay, but 90% of the time you will hit wolverine and get hit by the akuma assist or trade with the akuma assist. This is fine because wolverine will be in so much hit-stun after the EX.TK hit that when you roll out of the trade with akuma you have ample time to do a ToD combo on wolvie. If you don’t have a ToD combo you can X.factor to destroy Wolverine. You do not want to let Wolverine out of this. You want to kill him ASAP because of his dirty dirty comeback potential. If you use X factor you can wait a bit before triggering it in the middle of your combo and destroy wolverine. That way you have a good amount of lvl 1 x-factor left on the next character for one good mix-up.
This punish can be modified if you have a wolverine trying the mid-screen Akuma Assist into H.Berserker slash mix-up. If you know its coming you can focus attack wait for the berserker slash to hit and do EX.TK in either which side wolverine lands. The best case scenario is if the do a berserker slash that lands infront of you. Then you can destroy both Wolverine and Akuma with EX.TK into Xfactor or whatever you want. :] Still havent applied these in battle but these are definitely something to practice.
:eek: Wow, very interesting work. Very recently, I’ve actually given up playing Viper against the likes of Wesker and Wolverine.
I’m not at a superior technical level yet, and mastering the art of the rapid Seismo is my current goal for Viper, as I’m able to do everything else we currently know about her. I’ve found that without the rapid Seismo, though, conditioning opponents like Wesker and Wolverine become increasingly more difficult and it sometimes seems that no matter how many times you slap them around with Seismos and chip hits, they will still keep flailing because they know that can finish off of just about any hit. I feel that once I learn rapid Seismos and anywhere-juggle combos with Viper, the matchups will be a bit more tolerable.
I will definitely try out your suggestions, though. Anything to make my opponents want to press buttons less is my goal with this character.
That…and the super sweet death combos. >_>
Wolverine is a good match up for Viper, he needs to rely on random things where she has stable tools for dealing with him, 1 hit is all it takes on either side however so be cautious about ever letting him touch you. >.<
:eek: Yeah, I’m trying. It just seems that Wolverine/[Akuma/Sentinel/Magneto]'s purpose is just to fill the screen with ludicrous amounts of bullshit.
I think the thing I need to work on is just keeping my composure and taking the matchups one Marvel second at a time. Sometimes the way I look at things, they seem unbeatable when I know damn well it’s not the case.
I don’t think learning rapid seismo will help you out much in that match-up. IMO just for the fact that you control the ground starting from anywhere from up close to you to three quarters of the screen really means nothing t Wolverine. If he happens to be in that three quarter range he can easily berserker slash you unless you get lucky on one of your seismos to hit him at the start or near end of the berserker slash. Sucks :[
I strongly disagree gottnoskill.
I got to play against Noel Brown, Daigo, and Detrimantix at NCR and seismo zoning is incredibly efficient against Wolverine and really safe, as long as you’re over 1/3 screen away it’s very good as it lets you react to berzerker slash and kill Wolverine with a DHC to Dante really easily. This match is pretty extremely in Viper’s favor to the point where I feel if the players are equal the other player should start one of their non Wolverine characters.
Because I feel like it’s time to update, Viper match ups IMO! These may obviously change, but this is where I feel she wins, loses, or goes even and by how much. These are at current level of play, in theory fighter execution goddess Viper has 10-0 match ups against the vast majority of the cast, but I won’t do this based on that. (Copy pasted character list from SRK’s wiki to make sure I don’t forget anyone nor screw up spellings.) I’m posting the general range I think of the match up and will note if I have a strong level of certainty or uncertainty. Normal notation, first number is Viper’s wins out of 10 games, second number is the opponent’s wins out of ten games. If there is a range that I’m unsure will put the extremes in brackets on either side of the primary numbers. In brackets I’m writing my changed opinions from the previous chart.
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[]Akuma [5.5-4.5] 6.5-3.5 [7-3] [I played against really good Akumas at NCR, his tools are even worse against her than I expected, his assist is incredibly good against her, him on point is not.] +1.5
[]Amaterasu 7.5-2.5 [Viper blows up this match really hard, Reflector is bad against Viper, Sword is okay and whip is terrible.] +2.5
[]Arthur 7-3 [I played Sleazoid’s Arthur, I think he took 1 set off the Noel/Justin/Floe team, Viper’s only difficulty with him is X-factor air to ground] +2
[]C. Viper 5-5 [Played DJ-Divine and some other fun Viper players, the Viper who controls space more wins, obviously one combo kills but controlling an enemy Viper will more often than not give that hit.] +/-0
[]Chris [5-5] 6-4 [8-2] [A lot of the things that I thought made this kind of even get blown up by super jump BKF strings when used right.] +1
[]Chun Li [6-4] 7-3 [8-2] [Very minimal new experience in this, didn’t play any chuns that showed me new technology, blocking her is hard if she’s x-factored, chicken blocking with BKFs is really effective against her when she anchors as solo chun has absolutely no way to do damage off of her air grab. --; ] +2
[]Dante [6-4] 6.5-3.5 [8-2] [I thought that Dante would have options to deal with Viper’s BS, his options aren’t terribly stable against her and she blows him up at every range other than his standing B/C range. Remember that his pokes beat yours and the match is pretty lopsided against him. This is after playing K-beast more, Daigo, Dacidbro more etc.] +1.5
[]Felicia 6-4 [7-3] [No new experience on this match up, though just better understanding of Viper zoning in general makes me think it may be more lopsided.] +1
[]Haggar 8-2 [When I’m not greedy against Haggar the match is incredibly free, he can’t approach with pipe or wave dash against Viper at all.] +3
[]Hsien Ko 7-3 [No new experience, no Hsien-ko players there that I fought. 
] +2
[]Jill 6-4 [7-3] [relies on the ground too much and despite her superior normals doesn’t dominate Viper at almost any range.] +1
[]Morrigan [4-6] 5.5-4.5 [6-4] [I’ve shifted my oppinion on this, Viper can get annoyed by Astral Morrigan, but her air normals are not as scary as they need to be to make this a bad match for Viper.] +.5
[]Ryu [6-4] 6.5-3.5 [No new Ryu experience. ] +1.5
[]Spencer[6-4] 7-3 [Fought some more good Spencers Detrimantix I’m just reminded never let him hit you as a competent Spencer will kill Viper off any hit regardless of gauge.] +2
[]Trish [3.5-6.5] 4.5-5.5 [I fought more Trish, Viper has some new tech for fighting her air normals and blowing up peekabos I need to go into the lab and get stable but this match is not as bad as I thought.] -.5
[]Tron Bonne [6-4] 6.5-3.5 [No change in oppinion despite increased play against Tron.] +1.5
[]Viewtiful Joe 6.5-3.5 [Very little new Joe play, fought only 2 at NCR, it was not pretty for them, dealing with Voomerang + assist can be a little obnoxious, so just understand when he can and can’t have 2 on the screen.] +1.5
[]Wesker [4.5-5.5] 6-4 [Some people have really solid Weskers, I don’t believe his tools are exceptionally effective against her and she’s one of the few members of the cast that have consistent ways of stopping his tools.] +1
[]Zero 4-6 [There were a myriad of Zero players, none of them changed my mind or even brought this match to the 4-6 where I think it should be, making this match up a little more in Zero’s favor thanks to his amazing ability to destroy Viper’s air game really safely. He can and should run all day and I now feel can do so better than Trish.] -1
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[]Captain America 6.5-3.5 [No new experience. ] +1.5
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[]Deadpool 6-4 [No new experience. ] +1
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[]Dormammu 6.5-3.5 [7-3] [Played against a few people but none of them showed me anything new to make me feel Viper wins this any less. Champ is still the best Dorm player I’ve interacted with.] +1.5
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[]Dr. Doom 6-4 [7-3] [No new experience though Honzo’s leveled up a lot.] +1
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[]Hulk 6.5-3.5 [Minimal new experience, re-evaluating tools after going into the lab with him myself makes me realize what Viper can do about a lot of options against him, his gamma wave is actually slightly obnoxious when paired with an assist but he needs to be cautious against her…] +1.5
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[]Iron Man 6.5-3.5 [No new Iron Man experience. ] +1.5
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[]Magneto 5. 5-4.5 [I lost to a Magneto at the tournament in the form of Y2J, however I was simply outplayed and mixed up, I’d like to play him again he was very good. I actually think this match is more in my favor now which makes me feel worse about losing. XD] +.5
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[]MODOK [4-6] 4.5-5.5 [Fought Hiro more, his MODOK is much better, no change in opinion however.] -.5
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[]Phoenix [2.5-7.5] [7.5-2.5] [I fought a lot of Phoenix and hold the same opinion to an even more extreme degree than before It’s really situation based, Phoenix when out there and played right is very difficult for Viper to fight, forcing her to rely on tools that aren’t that stable, however Phoenix falls in at some point and Viper has an incredibly good chance of killing her there.] ???
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[]Sentinel 7.5-3.5 [I fought a lot of Sentinel, a lot of them were good, this match is crazy free for Viper.] +2.5
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[]She Hulk 7.5-2.5 [I fought some more She-Hulks, I lost to a few of them but that’s simply from being outplayed, Viper dominates this match really hard.] +2.5
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[]Spider-Man ??? [No new experience, I don’t feel I have enough information to adequately place this after doing more research on the character. If there are any Spider-man experts in Norcal I’d love you to contact me for some long sets!] ???
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[]Shuma Gorath 6-4 [No new experience. ] +1
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[LIST]
[]Storm [5.5-4.5] 6.5-3.5 [Fought more Storm, bizzle can’t do jack against Viper + horizontal assist, if you don’t have a horizontal assist combatting her assists can become a bit more of an issue with her placement of them.] +1.5
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[LIST]
[]Super-Skrull 6-4 [7-3] [No new experience] +1
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[LIST]
[]Taskmaster 6-4 [Fought some very good Taskmasters, Norcal has the best after seeing and playing others, I took away my possible higher score thanks to some adjustment based on alternative optimizations of Task teams, if he actually has real zoning assists the match isn’t quite as dominant.] +1
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[LIST]
[]Thor 6.5-3.5 [7-3] [No new Thor experience. ] +1
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[LIST]
[]Wolverine 7-3 [8-2] [I fought some of the best Wolverines in the world, he’s entirely assist reliant in this fight and after the initial chance to kill you at start up it quickly gets really bad for him, unless his assist blows up Viper and her assist this match is in her favor. That said there is a larger random factor in this match up.] +2
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[LIST]
[]X-23 6.5-3.5 [Minimal new experience, no change in opinion.] +1.5
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OLD NUMBERS:~ +39.5 (Just did +/- 1 per bracket) (All characters included)
NEW NUMBERS: +47.5 (Spider-man and Phoenix NOT included)
Assists that give Viper the hardest time
EM disruptor
Horizontal Aim Master [potentially vertical as well, haven’t played good people who use that yet]
Gustav Fire
Tatsu that blows up hammers.
Armored Hsien-Ko
I’m going to test Viper/Dante/Assist character at some point to see how it effects her match ups when she has a character that purely exists to make her better as opposed to Task who although is amazing for her, may not be optimizing her as much as I think he is.
I don’t know if evaulating the 1 on 1 is enough though.
The assist combination can make what should be an easy fight to a much harder one. Dante, Arthur, Spencer, Wolverine, She-Hulk, etc… can become extremely difficult with the proper assist. The same goes with Viper I mean this is how Marvel is.