This is very true, her Phoenix and Dante are the trinity of busted shiz in MvC3. XD
So I have decided to finally pick up Viper. Been using Dante lately and the execution for his more advanced stuff has been a lot of fun… figure since Viper is even tougher that will be even more enjoyable. Besides, I always wanted to use Viper since she is one of my mains in SF4 (even though I really don’t play it too often at all) and the fact that Chrisis makes her sound like she destroy people anywhere on the screen like that pink haired bitch in Elfen Lied.
So first of all where should I start with her in training mode? What set ups, combo starters, enders, should I work on? I know I should try learning the seismo string but I am more worried about understanding the character as a whole before I get advanced combos. If I don’t understand the mix up games and can’t land the first hit then combos are pretty much useless.
Also what teams are good for her? I know Wesker, Trish, Thor, Dormammu pretty well… my Dante as I said before is a work in progress. I could go back in time and re learn Task, Doom, or Zero. My current team I have been toying around the most with is Chris/Dante/Deadpool.
Thanks for the help.
You seem to be fairly diverse in character selection. I’ve never used Trish as a character with Viper but I’ve done some training with the both of them and they have some very interesting setups and unblockackles with her lvl 3 focus attack.
Really one of the most amazing thing about viper is her fast zoning game so I’d put a lot of emphasis on that. It can be a real pain for slower characters to get in if you know how to use her seismo’s correctly. Faster characters and once with very decent/fast projectiles can be a problem. But if you get use to using seismo smart and frequently you can start a combo from light seismo and medium seismo. If you get them to block you can be at an advantage by getting some space to dash in. Since you’re new to the character i wouldn’t be too afraid to use her EX seismo. A lot of players who have used her a while are very very timid (me included) to using her EX tools out of combos. They’re very effective when placed in the right scenarios. Viper can get rushed down very easily with faster characters so its always good to know how to comfortably use EX seismo. She gains meter so fast in her combos its insane. I know a few combos that gain nearly 2.5 meters and sometimes a bit more.
Setups aren’t really my strong point and I’ve been working really hard to get better at them. I know most things with her combo/reset abilities.
Her ground vs ground normals are really bad compared to most of the cast. Remember that her st.L must be blocked low so I usually start combos with that. Her overhead with a delayed BK is a good crossover but its slow and you need to cover it with an assist to make it safe on block.
Her air vs ground normals are j.l and j.S Both place the hitbox infront of her and you can start a mix-up from the air. j.H is good if you know how to use it correctly but I have more success with the first stated. Especially her j.L attack. If you manage to get a tri-dash on an opponent near the ground you can combine an assist to cover and do a BK to crossover for an easy combo.
Her air vs air is pretty good. j.M is nice and j.H pretty much makes a shield in front of her from about thigh and up over her head.
I always make it a point to get a throw whenever i see the right opportunity. They can lead to 500k-700k combos.
Her box dash entries and tri-dash entries are fairly predictable because they aren’t super fast and abused so learning the ISJF BK or Viper Ball will eventually help you with almost instant overheads and they cover a decent amount of ground. To do them you do it like you’re doing an instant cammy dive kick off the ground in SF4.
Even a heavy Burning kick from the ground is -1 on block so combined with an assist you can get an okay overhead off. If you manage to get a standing heavy Burning kick you can combo from st.L into whatever when you recover.
Her medium Thunder Knuckle on block can lead to some deceptive opportunities. If you think they’ll spam cr.L you can jump back and tri-dash foward for a very easy over-head into a touch of death combo. if you think they’ll mash it is safe on block and can lead to a frame trap so you can do st.L or cr.L (cr.L is 1 frame less on start-up) If they’re scared of your medium TK and block you can do a throw. Be careful though some people realize that they can throw you on this and if you do an attack immediately after TK you can get thrown.
If you land medium TK you can go into an EX.TK or combine an assist to continue the combo on the ground.
Box dash combo is a must to learn. It’s her BnB and there are quite a few opportunities on the ground and air to do a box dash combo from specific hits. Her most damaging combos come from being in a corner obviously and her ability to cover ground in a combo is amazing so with the right combos you shouldnt have a problem hitting corners.
Combo enders usually do with something that give her the ability to use Burst Time Hyper. Since their is no techable recovery afterwards you can DHC into just about any horizontal traveling hyper and some vertical ones. Very very versatile. But the trick comes into DHC into Viper. That is much harder.
Teammates that are good for Viper that I’ve tried are task/mag/ammy/trish/Dr.Doom is pretty good. Never tried Dante too much even though I would consider those two having potential. I think Chrisis said one time Spencer or phoenix would be good with her.
I’m just rambling so hopefully this gives you an idea, if you have more questions hit me up on Live. My tag is same as user name.
My list will likely not be as lengthy or helpful as gottnoskill’s, but I’ll contribute some things that help me get in the right mindset for Viper.
Think about the risk and reward for all your options, find out what and when feels effective for you in various spaces. Figure out what things general hit boxes are on your own as people telling you ‘this works midscreen’ is very different from you getting to understand why it works midscreen and thus developing your own most efficient ways of using a tool.
Combos: I feel this is the least important part of Viper but she’s very good at them, any time you hit someone you can do massive damage. Doing the most effective combo isn’t necessarily your top priority, figuring out how to have a safe game that makes your opponent’s game unsafe is much more helpful to being good with Viper.
Space control: Viper’s greatest zone of strength is everything at normal jump height or below within 4/5 of the screen from the enemy thanks to how incredibly stupid seismic hammer’s data is. Although with monster execution it’s possible to make sure they never leave this area it’s not practical to assume this practically as a human, if you prove me wrong on that latter point I hope never to fight you as a flawless Viper is impossible to fight. Because never letting them leave that area is impractical figuring out what you can do to deal with people until they return to that area. Full screen isn’t that bad especially with a horizontal assist to help you move forward the tiny bit it takes to dominate. Mag’s disruptor can give some issues with this but using either focus or super jump and air dash down/downforward let’s you get into position while he’s recovering and or punish. When people are in super jump height making sure they land in a bad situation is the most important thing Viper can do, the fact that she blows up Dive kicks and tri-jumps is very helpful in this situation.
Normals: Get acquainted with each of her normals and find out when they are the least terrible. Air S is good, air A is good for mix up, but otherwise the hitboxes/recovery on her normals is pathetic, know what you can substitute for them and when in order to optimize your play. Often Seismic hammer.
Seismic hammer: Get very well acquainted with this and treat it as if it’s 1 button when you’re in a lot of situations seismic hammer beats out every option your opponent has when used safely and correctly, this is in my opinion the least balanced move that has existed in a game short of Ivan Ooze.
Team synergy: DHCing out of Viper is brain dead easy, but DHCing into her is situational, go into training mode and figure out what you can safely do or use to punish, how emergency combination has massive invincibility AND nullifies beams allows it to be the perfect thing to throw out then DHC, it absolutely brutalizes a lot of characters and when you have good DHCs is an excellent use of gauge. As far as partners go there are a lot of people that work very well as assists/DHCs with Viper here are a few that I find exceptionally good for her.
Taskmaster: Amazing DHCs and one of the best horizontal assists in the game, supplements damage in combos, allows safe entry into situations, makes zoning do massive damage, is overall beastly for Viper and IMO one of the best/easiest characters to synergize with in the game. He’s also above decent on point.
Phoenix: IMO the only character in the game that’s better than Viper, when Viper sets her mind to it she builds a stupid amount of gauge. Seismic zoning also builds a ridiculously high amount quickly. Excellent at using X-factor which although Viper can use mainly effects her seismic zoning and chip since she already kills in 1 combo on hit.
Dante: The other S rank character. I feel that his Jam session assist minimizes Viper’s bad match ups letting her lower characters down to the ground then murder them where she’s more comfortable. Has exceptional DHCs for safeness and combos, can get a lot out of Emergency combination start up. Good at using Burn kick unblockable set ups thanks to a few beneficial attacks.
Ammaterasu: Easy mode unblockables set up, good DHC, good pressure for controlling space and chipping, DHCs back into Viper very easily since Ammy/Viper combos push people to the corner fairly effectively.
Dr. Doom: Doom missiles when utilized correctly lead to incredibly stupid good stuff in Viper’s zoning game, also helpful in her few bad match ups.
Spencer: Has an assist which regrounds the opponent and pulls them to Viper, with good execution this makes Viper way more dangerous since it allows her to kill characters who ate a max range seismic hammer. Easy DHCs in both directions even midscreen.
Felicia: Full screen unblockables with Viper on point, half screen unblockables with Felicia on point, scary rush down team and assist with its minor start up invincibility also doubles as a ghetto get off me assist if you don’t want to burn gauge on EX seismic hammer.
Tron: Again, get off me assist that Viper can convert into big damage.
Shuma Gorath: His assist is amazing for making people fall in blockstun which makes Viper very happy as that means she gets to win.
Add for dante: million dollars dhc’s into emergency combination anywhere on the screen.
I’ve been toying with Viper (BK), Wesker, Magneto (Disruptor) for a couple of weeks now. I really like all characters but I feel like something is missing, i feel that wesker is the oddball out on this team but he’s crazy so i’d want him to stay. Anyone got tips on making this work?
one other thing, what are your tactics against x-23 & Dante? it seems i have a lot of trouble with chracters that airdash all over the place…
Hm, i think the only thing your team is missing is probably a lockdown assist like cold star or jam session, but i also think you don’t nessecarily need it. You have disruptor to clear vipers way in and you can use low shot for unblockables. Wesker doesn’t bring anything special for viper, he is just good overall and gives a dhc-glitch follower for mags plus an otg assist. I think you don’t need to make it work, it already does.
If you want a character that compliments viper more, maybe you can switch him out for one of the mentioned characters that we already know have good synergie with viper like dante, ammy, task, trish, etc.
I thought Wesker would be complimentary to Viper seeing she doesn’t have some of the very effective tools that Wesker has but in the long run I dropped him from the viper team. Just not enough going on between the two.
I guess your right, I don’t see myself switching out Wesker either so I guess i’ll stick with that team for now.
Thanks
Yeah, i think he still can make up really well for her bad matchups, so even though they do exactly have good synergy, the team in general benefits from his strenghts.
For me personally, i am thinking of switching my viper/dante/ammy team to viper/dante/trish. I played weasel shot and cold star and will obviously play jam session and low voltage with the new team. Any thoughts on this?
Nevermind, double post
The thing about Wesker is that he is just a utility character. You can stick him on any team and he is an instant steroid. He is a great point character and his OTG assist can only help every other member of the cast whether it be for continuation of combos, mixup/rest set ups, or creating unblockables.
So it isn’t like Wesker works great with Viper, he just works well with every member of the cast. So if you are looking for team synergy, Wesker would be a good choice for any team (which is why you see him so damn much now on streams and what not).
If you are going for sort of a niche/unique team synergy than there are much better options.
I’m also of the camp not super enamored with Viper/Wesker, it has great unblockable set ups, but his ability to extend combos is wasted on her since she can always hit the hit stun scaling cap. I honestly feel that neither of them fair well against Trish/Phoenix.
Fighting X-23: You’re in luck, once you have a full grasp of seismic hammer this match is free, in the air she has 4 mobility tools , angle up, straight, angle down and down, after anything other than down, down is the only one she could do to alter her trajectory and this is really bad against Viper. if they do anything but angle up near the ground punish with seismic hammer it’s decently easy on reaction. This is much better when you have a horizontal assist to limit her assist calls. If she goes up calculating her arc and making her land in either a mix up or seismo isn’t too bad, just remember that zoning her out is easy while rushing her down is riskier *Yet more fun. >.>; *
Dante: He’s definitely a harder match than X-23, you need to prevent him from setting up his good mix up/unblockables by either zoning or rushing down, once you’re inside everything you have starts faster than everything he has, outside all his attacks have more reach than all your attacks. XD A good Dante who gets you into a bad situation kills you off it, make sure you eliminate him as a problem. Remember that anything on the ground can be cancelled into EX seismo on reaction to teleport and this will get you through a lot of beam assists as well.
@don_tknow: I would run Viper Trish Dante for the order for a few reasons. Dante is IMO a better anchor than Trish and can open up people/consistently chip someone who’s trying to run away more easily, this also gives you access to the corner doom special. Viper gets a character to the corner then makes them block, immediately cancel into emergency combination immediately cancel into round harvest tag back into Viper for the unblockable, the nice thing is that you can also use this in a lot of situations where they’re out of block stun but need to land since EC has such stupid high invincibility.
Lol, i didn’t know about this setup. ^^ i only knew about the trish corner combo one, and for that it doesn’t matter in which order you play them.
I’ll try that out and see if i can get comfortable with her, because i like her as a character. Though it’s hard for me to actually give up dante as a point character, since i really love him. But you’re point definetely makes sense.
If your order benefits your playstyle more use that, I’m just saying what would work best for me. ^.^
So I really want to use Dante with Viper and I don’t really know who my 3rd should be. Granted I have only been using Viper for 2 days now (still suck but getting there) and I have thrown in Wesker on that team basically just because I didn’t know who else to do. Team has crazy unblockables with Weskers Samurai Edge and Vipers Burn kick assist… but I am having a lot or of trouble getting in and pressuring and landing that first hit with Viper, any tips on approaching with her?
Also who would fit better than Wesker with this team? I was thinking someone with a beam assist like Doom for combo coninuation and left/right mix ups? Also what Dante assist fits Viper better Weasel Shot or Jam Session?
Dante assist are both great. I’d usually suggest jam ober weasel for lockdown purposes, unless you habe another assist for that like cold star. Weasel shot is good for approaching though and you can extend combos with it, that’s what i use. My team is viper (thunder knuckle)/dante (weasel shot)/ammy (cold star), and it works great.
Must admit im not a huge fan of the Dog… lol, hater I know. So I don’t really think I will be picking up Ammy anytime soon. Eventually probably because I love this game and want to learn all the characters.
But I have experience with Dorm, Doom, Trish, Thor, and Chris. I don’t know if one of those someone could recommend.
:360: With regards to approaching with Viper:
I’m sure some of the better Viper players may have some more unique ideas, but because of her more combo-ish normals (as opposed to poke-ish), I find her “approach” game to consist of blasting your opponent in the face with very cautiously placed Seismos. Since, outside of her great overhead game, her normals tend to get overpowered, I kind of want to beat my opponents into actual submission to discourage anti-air approaches or any good pokes they may have. I think of it like a huge portion of uncooked meat–you don’t just pick it up and start cooking it. You have to tenderize it first (insert Super Skrull reference here) and then you can start cutting the way you like.
I try to inch forward with Seismos and the help of whatever appropriate assists I may be running with and, preferably, push them into a corner. The idea is that the opposing player will be blocking, but if they get tagged by a random Seismo you can go into a pickup combo from there and then move the momentum in your favor a bit. If they continue their blocking, when you get in, you can take advantage of their passive nature and, if you have a lockdown assist, begin your close range game with relative impunity. From here, you can use Thunder Knuckles and forward motion tactics like SJC Seismos to combat pushblocks and, again depending on the assists you have, can freely mix-up in the corner while catching forward ground techs with your assist.
It may be too stringent and seems kind of like a “win condition” as opposed to slapping the sh*t out of people with Magneto heavies, but regular rush doesn’t seem to work out for me with Viper and even a super jump offense has its limits with her.
For additional assists for your team, I think maybe somebody who throws something or can control an area a few character lengths away from you would probably be ideal. Since I would recommend Dante’s Jam Session as a stopper for super jumpers and a good way to close off incoming characters (snapbacks, character KOs, etc.), you’ve got the area above and directly in front of you covered; you can also approach carefully behind projectile or screen control assists and can even use some of them to cross over or mixup in the right ranges. If you are using Viper’s Seismo assist, you can use that to extend combos for that character since Viper and Dante do a pretty good job of extending their own combos. Chris (Gun Fire), Doctor Doom (Molecular Shield), Iron Man (Unibeam), Dormammu (Dark Hole), Hsien-Ko (Senpu Bu), and Akuma (Tatsumaki Zankuukyaku) are some of the characters that come immediately to mind.
Sorry if that was too long. >_>;
For approaching what you let them do is just as important as what you do. Seismic hammer is a counter zoning tool and as soon as you’re within 3/4 of the screen they shouldn’t be throwing stuff out other than disruptor/other ridiculously speedy things. Approaching characters who have godlike normals can be tough and having a horizontal assist to help can be vastly beneficial but at mid range near the ground seismic hammer is the best poke in the game. Air to ground is likely her best way of approaching safely as her normals are least terrible for that.
As for Wesker, I’d replace him with Taskmaster, one of the best horizontal assists in the game, same health as Wesker, and builds gauge or uses gauge ridiculously well. For Dante all his assists are amazing for Viper but for different reasons. Weasel shot and crystal leave her with even greater ground control while jam session covers her only weak area. Thus I think Jam session + another character with a solid horizontal assist is the best.