Spies like us: The MvC3 C.Viper Team/Matchup Discussion Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
2201

LOL don’t you play Zero? NO ONE beats Zero. Some characters can go 5-5 with him with the correct assists (Morrigan, Magneto, Trish, and MAYBE Taskmaster) and Vergil can fraud him out in XF3. But Viper most certainly does not beat him. I think some of the Viper experts in this thread have called it one of her worst matchups.

Me personally I think the bolded team is not a great Viper team; it’s just a good team because you may put in work with Viper/vajra and any team with Vergil + vajra on it is going to allow fraudulent wins. From everything I’ve seen Viper NEEDS a lockdown assist (jam session or cold star preferably).

2202

Yeah I have mained Zero since vanilla, but to be honest, the Viper matchup is something I very rarely come across offline. I figured the people on these boards would know the matchup better than I, especially considering they know all the theory viper stuff, wheras I only know a portion of it.

2203

I don’t think there is a uniquely optimal viper team - there are multiple optimal teams depending on which broken aspect of viper you want to exploit at the expense of another (e.g. morri gives you exseismo but you lose the utility of vajra, ammy exploits her broken high-low game at the expense of a much needed anti-air). This is why I feel I’m in a constant state of team-crisis with viper.

One team-type you didn’t mention that is very strong is viper/doom (or strange)/dante (or strider or ammy).

edit Also, viper/trish/dante is pretty good.

How do people feel about viper/dante/ammy though? It’s a team I have success with when I try it (sooo much lockdown and a good anti-air)

2204

Still trying to figure out what I like the most. Viper / Dante shell is for sure.

My options for the third character (who may or may not be anchor) are:

Raccoon (Spitfire) - a “better” version of drones IMO since raccoon essentially covers himself. The problem is, I dont like running Raccoon on anchor, and Raccoon in general has damage output issues, even with max rep boulder loops.

Strider (Vajra) - I dont really want to use this though as I feel like there is very little horizontal control for Viper with Dante / Strider.

Akuma (Tatsu) - I like it, but it doesnt give me anything to help out at long range. I really like tatsu though. Also, a few pages back someone was kinda talking about how Viper / Tatsu is bad because it scales damage and viper has hard pickups off of it. Idk. Still going to keep it in contention.

Iron Man (Uni) / Doom (Beam) - Both provide the same thing assist wise essentialy, as well as providing tac infinites and very high damage DHCs. Doom has the added benefit of providing relatively safe DHCs. All of that being said, I dont really like using either character at all.

Magneto (Disruptor) - I would love using Mags since I have a lot of Mags experience, but his assist just feels…too…fast? for viper. Kinda hard to explain it I guess. It doesnt give her a lot of time to get in and its hard to combo off of it.

Sentinel (Drones) - Amazing assist, terrible character.

Could anyone suggest some other characters or options? The obvious ones at first are Hawkeye(Greyhound) and Strange(Bolts).

2205

I’m in the same boat man, I love the Viper/Dante duo but have tried so many 3rd characters (Ironman, Morrigan, Strange, Arthur, Felicia, MODOK, Strider, Dormammu, Doom, Chun, Magneto)

If you’re concerned about horizontal control with Dante/Strider (which I wouldn’t be as a Viper player, personally) you can run weasel shot – see Crazy Joe matches for reference. Excellent team and construct, imo.

For Viper/Dante/Akuma – sure, Viper doesn’t get much out of Akuma, but Dante does! See SumBrwnKid matches for reference. I believe Viper can still function with just Jam Session as a neutral assist so just don’t use tatsu unless it’s purely for specific situations (projectile sniping, etc). If you like this team, I’d say use it.

…this transitions to the next team – Team Chrisis – this team utilizes jam session as its only neutral assist but it is one of Viper’s strongest team constructions imo. (Viper/Morrigan-Harmonizer-/Dante) Sick, sick, sick team. Viper gains access to jam session, practically unlimited meter for EX, TAC infinites, killer secondary shell, decent DHCs – this team blows my mind, haha, I love it.

I think Unibeam, Plasma Beam and Disruptor all have very different utility for viper even though they are all beam assists – I think this is one of the more interesting topics in Mahvel. Unibeam is excellent for neutral dominance and combo extension (strong lockdown on block and you know exactly where they will be standing on hit to maintain that neutral dominance). Plasma beam is good for clearing the horizontal and combo extension, but not so much for neutral dominance (if that makes sense, hahaha) imo because it soft knock downs, leaving your opponent many options to wake up with that you cannot react to as easily (roll forward, backward, neutral – call assist while doing this or not). Disruptor is an excellent counter call assist, say, if you want to clear a drone or missile call from the opponent or something, etc (like if you’re neutral jumping and burn kick cancelling/double jumping, opponents typically like to call assist at this point, disruptor is perfect here).

Each beam has excellent documented examples of how to use them with viper: Kbeast uses disruptor (also excellent assist for Dante himself), Marlin Pie uses plasma beam, not many viper players use unibeam (I do, haha) but check out DapVip for how well unibeam can work with Dante I love watching his Dante/Unibeam.

I’d say you’re on the right track to making an optimal Viper team with these characters alone.

Viper/Morrigan/Dante
Viper/Dante/Magneto
Viper/Magneto/Dante
Viper/Dante/Akuma
Viper/Dante/Strider
Viper/Strider/Akuma even? Never thought about this until now.
Viper/Doom/Dante
Viper/Ironman/Dante

Hawkeye might be a good fit like Viper/Dante/Hawkeye but I’m not familiar with Hawkeye really and can’t think of any Dante/Hawkeye streamed players off the top of my head. Hawkeye’s horizontal assist seems like it’d be similar to unibeam in terms of utility, right?

2206

Ive been playing a lot recently and ive come to the conclusion that Im going to just play my two favorite viper teams, but use them for specific matchups.

against heavy rushdown teams (wolverine, etc), Im going to use Viper / Dante / Akuma. I feel like Tatsu is better than most other assists in the game (aside from stuff like Shadow Blade or Ryuenjin) when combating rushdown teams.

Against everything else, but more specifically, against missiles and drones, im definitely going to be using Viper / Dante / Mags. Disruptor is probably the best countercall assist in the game. Maybe second to plasma beam, idk.

The only thing thats still throwing a wrench in everything is the possibilities of Viper / Zero (in whatever order). Zero is tied with two others for my favorite characters in the game (Zero, Viper, and Jill…but Jill gets her own team.) Also, if I DID run V/Z, what order would be best? Im assuming Zero on point since he ToDs and has arguably a better overall neutral than Viper. Idk.

Input, anyone?

2207

Hello guys. I have a question.
Which Viper team is better: Viper/Doom/Ammy or Viper/Magneto/Dante?
I wanna play Viper/Magneto but I don’t like Dante too much, is he the best anchor for Viper/Mag?
I do like Marlin’s team too, but I don’t know if this team is still strong.
I don’t know what to do, the only thing I know is that I don’t wanna give up Viper. So, Marlin’s team, a anchor for Viper/Mag or a new team? xD
Thanks guys.

2208

First, if you drop Viper, with that screenname, I would disown you, as a complete stranger. Jk jk
Second, I’ve had a similar issue lately. IMO plasma seems better for Viper than disruptor. Magneto is a stronger character but you’re making a Viper-centric team so go for utility. Doom/Dante is VERY good and Jam is just better for her overall than Cold Star. I think it’s slightly better than MP’s team and what I’ll be going with. Good middle ground if you have to choose between the two teams you mentioned.

2209

Yeah, I agree, it would be strange. xD
Well, I still playing Viper/Doom/Ammy and training Viper/Morrigan/Dante.
I think Viper/Morrigan/Dante is a very strong team and has few bad match ups.
Maybe I’ll try Viper/Strider too…

2210

Hello, is there room for one more around here?

I’m trying to pick up the game to give the community a boost in my country, and really liked Viper. I’ve played around some with Chrisis’ team (Viper/Morrigan/Dante) and was wondering if it’d be viable to substitute Dante for Ammy there. Cold Star doesn’t quite have the vertical reach of Jam Session, which I understand is important to Morrigan, but it certainly serves as a lockdown as well, no? I’ve liked how Harmonizer enables Viper to ease up on meter conservation and use more EX moves, but greatly prefer Ammy to Dante as a character and anchor. Is it worth learning her, or am I just better off sticking to the tried-and-true team in this case?

2211

I really like morri/ammy. There is some fun synergy between morrigan and ammy and ammy is hella fun. However, it is much weaker than morri/dante because now you have absolutely no neutral assist and must completely rely on how good you are at “theory viper”.

In my opinion, the only way to make that team work (despite really bad matchups) is be incredibly proficient with each of those characters, especially viper and morrigan. That means all of viper’s insanely hard neutral and optimal combos and morrigan’s TAC infinite and her rushdown game.

So, if you don’t have viper’s neutral down, which 95% of vipers don’t, viper/morri/ammy is not so strong. If, however, your solo viper is godlike and 100% safe like “theory viper” is supposed to be, the team can be good with some bad matchups.

In the end, play what’s fun. Just realize that viper without jam session or some other neutral assist is really hard to win with.

2212

Alright, thanks for the insight! I’ll reconsider, then, and stick with Dante in the meantime. Have a good one!

2213

Hi people… Hopefully there is someone out there to think about this question!

I’ve been switching viper point teams a lot in last 6 months and have become competent with the key viper bffs (imo ammy, dante, vergil, morrigan, strider). I’ve decided that the BEST viper team (for me anyway) is definitely viper/x/strider, where x can be just about anybody, but optimally is either dante, morrigan, doom or vergil.

My question: Given that I’m running anchor strider, are there matchups where it would be more beneficial to run vergil, morrigan or dante in the middle? I want to get to the point where I can counter pick my middle character and end up having a more robust viper.

I was thinking:

  • against a rushdown big body team, keep away with morrigan assist is best
  • against a flight heavy magneto team dante is the best
  • against a team like morrigan or zero where it is imperative to kill the point character vergil is the best

Do you guys have any matchup advice for the middle assist/character?

2214

Doom beam is good, better for morrigan/zero matchups than vergil, I think you should count him as bff if you’re considering ammy and vergil as bff

Doom and dante are probably gonna be your best all-around 2nds for viper/strider, you can probably just pick morrigan or vergil if you have solid advantage in the matchup so you tilt it more in your favor

2215

That’s why I put him among the four who optimally round out viper/strider - not sure if he qualifies as a bff though.

I think you’re 100% right about doom and dante being sufficient for all matchups. But sadly I don’t play doom. However… that beam would be great against zero sougenmu fireballs…

2216

Dante is the worst for Viper, too much scaling. Her best quality is her lack of scaling so why willfully add it? Strider is her best assist, followed closely by beam.

2217

I was thinking:

  • against a rushdown big body team, keep away with morrigan assist is best

  • Unless you have a quality Morri I would say no to this idea, most big bodies are free to snapback unblockable and if you are doing it right you’ll always gain a meter to continue doing it. You’ll also need dominance in the neutral to ensure you get first hit. I’d go with beam here. And if you’re competent with your eye laser + seismo game you don’t even need beam, if this is the case use Vergil.(just don’t call the assist, big bodies will rape him)

  • against a flight heavy magneto team dante is the best

  • No go on Dante here, you’re wasting a Character slot to punish bad players. A good Mags isn’t going to run into your Dante Assist. If you feel like they’re just gonna fly around use morri to build meter. But I’d just stick to Vergil and pick your spots right.

  • against a team like morrigan or zero where it is imperative to kill the point character vergil is the best

  • Disagree again, you should use beam here. Against these guys you need the first hit and neutral control, Vergil assist doesn’t help you get a turn to play. It just helps kill when it is your turn. This comment should have been against rushdown big bodies. It is imperative to kill them but first you have to hit them.

Apollunai

2218

As far as Viper teams go, I have two. I normally play Viper/Vergil/Strider, but I severe issue’s against Morri/Doom unless I switch my Vergil to Doom plasma beam.

2219

Thanks for your thoughts. The more and more I play viper/morri/strider or viper/vergil/strider the more I feel like viper/dante/strider is just too much work to win with (even though I think it’s viper’s best team). Since I don’t play doom (and never will) I’ll probably just stick to morrigan with the occasional vergil.

Are there any cases where you think dante/strider is a better counterpick?

2220

Dante Strider is a better team than Viper/Vergil/Strider period. The latter isn’t even really a great team because Viper’s only neutral assist is vajra, which isn’t really useful against ground based teams and is actually really easily punished by air based characters like Magneto( and it’s neutralized by missiles). The only reason it’s “easier” to win with is because Vergil in XF is fraudulent. But as far as Viper goes it hinders her. Vajra works best as a secondary neutral assist.