Spider-Man, The Amazing Thread

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Was just curious on you guys thoughts on the villians Venom and Carnage. Do you love them or hate them and if so, why? I liked Venom before they overexposed him with all the freakin’ mini series. And we really didn’t need a 14 part Carnage story in which the story goes in circles. The only problem I really have with Carnage is that he’s a one trick pony. And now that Marvel effed up the continuity, is Gargan still Venom? Norman still leading the Thunderbolts?

Oh and Menace is a poor man’s Green Goblin. Such an unfunny joke. :rolleyes:

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I am no comic book fan. But I started reading Spiderman because of BND. I always liked him in the cartoons and the movies, but I just dont like married superheroes (the worst’s epsodes on the 90’s cartoon are after he gets married, ugh).

I mean, I actually tried to get into spiderman comics (and comics in general) a few years back, but I cant stand the marriage. I aspire to get married someday, but I still couldn`t stand the “oh peter I am your wife, mumumukisssmuuumkiss” and stopped.

I also like that Amazing is now three times a month. I always considered it odd to have three different books telling three different storylines. Now instead of waiting a month, I just have to wait for next week.

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I think Venom would be great in someone else’s universe, but he doesn’t fit as a Spider-Man villain. Most of Spidey’s villains have a touch of sci-fi, but it’s always in the circus sideshow freak sensibility. Venom is too sci-fi and not enough circus sideshow. He’s just a vicious psycho.

I think a lot of people start liking him when they’re kids and don’t think any more deeply about him when they’re adults. When you’re a kid, it seems like the ultimate villain for any hero is a mirror match: a bad guy who has all the hero’s powers but none of his goodness. Upon closer examination, this is plainly untrue in most cases, but for kids, it’s hella cool.

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Well I was at my comic shop today and I read ASM #551. The issue was actually gasp not bad! Although they need to stop constantly reminding us that Spidey is out of fluid and is too broke to buy the stuff. OK, we get it. Now shut up about it. Menace is still a loser, though. He’s just an uglier goblin on a glider. Already two goblins in Spidey’s world. We don’t need another one.

Jackpot really screwed up. Spidey told her not to help him against Menace but she left the lady’s side she should have stayed with. What happens? Norman’s death recreated in the streets! I actually felt for Jackpot because she was really torn after words (duh!). Doesn’t look good for the Pro-reg side when licensed heroes screw up.

Don’t worry, Sano, I haven’t joined the dark side or anything. :rofl: I just thought ASM #551 was good. I still refuse to pay money off of something that was built on sin, and by “sin” I’m reffering to you-know-what. :mad:

I picked the following comics up for a dollar:

Spider-Man Blue #6
Untold Tales of Spider-Man #4
Spider-Man/Human Torch #1
Spider-Man/Human Torch #3

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On the topic of OMD/BND, I don’t see why they needed to get rid of MJ. I understand wanting a better supporting cast, but if you checked out PADS FNSM you’d see he was doing this sort of thing already, and much much better.

He brought back Betty Brant, Flash, Deb Whitman, and marriage didn’t get in the way of Pete interacting with them whatsoever. And we didn’t have to put up with him running out of webbing, or being told to put our Xboxs down.

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I dig both Venom and Carnage but when I hear their names together I think of all the symbiotes we had running loose in the 90s. Two was enough! Well we only have 2 right now, Venom and Toxin who is resting. Three if you count Eddie Brock who thinks he’s still Venom. :rofl:

Like New Avengers, Thunderbolts isn’t going to touch BND for a while. Gargan Venom is easy, the symbiote just forgot who Spidey was via magic spell, and before when Eddie Brock attacked MJ (ASM 300) Petey and her were living together, not married. I guess. Norman Osborn is a lot tougher to explain. The reason he came back to America (life…) was because Harry died and the reason he left was because of his kids with Gwen, who just don’t magically exist anymore because getting rid of the marriage erases them, how? Shrug don’t think too much about it. :rofl:

LOL read in store all you want, or even those who support - doesn’t bug me since you’re not spending my money or making me read it lol! I stopped reading in store when I saw Peter CPR kissing JJJ. Offices have CPR masks for that kind of thing you know… Cursing, making out with Girls Gone Wild hoes, living with gradma, Betty’s a secretary again for no reason at all, this is clearly not a book for me. It’s funny that you can read in store because it’s not flying off the shelves. Hmm wonder why. :rofl: BND is a lot better than OMD, but it is forever going to live in its shadow. Eh I don’t think JQ wants money from continuity minded folks like myself anyway with regards to Spidey…

Cosign everything Cocoj said. Though Marvel purposely didn’t want a supporting cast in ASM during JMS’ run. They felt that Spidey had become a supporting character in his own book. BND just fixes the mistake Marvel made with that decision. LOL the way they spin things. It’s no wonder why JMS is no longer Marvel exclusive…

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You were the type of reader they wanted to draw in with BND and that’s fine. I’m not gonna knock you if you like it. The more people that read Spidey, the better IMO. But Marvel was only thinking about bringing in new people and basically said the existing fans can go eff off.

You said it. Peter David is the man. He was married in FNSM AND with the supporting cast. No retarded retcon required.

My gripe with BND, and I’m finding out that others have the same gripe as me via forums, is that BND feels very much like basic, barebones Spider-Man. It feels like I’m reading stories from the '70s era and while that was fine back then, it ain’t what I want out of ASM today.

And what the heck is up with people dropping the F bomb in ASM? Yeah, it’s blurred out with stuff like @#$! but you still know it’s the F word. The F word was used seven times in the first issue of BND alone. Almost felt like I was reading a freaking issue of Powers. I’ve never been comfortable with the F bomb showing up in a Spidey book. It’s even more messed up when Peter said it, as he did in #551. Yeah, Joe Q, let’s bring in the kids so they can learn all about $#@! and $#@! and more #@!#. The %$@! is he thinking?

Speaking of JMS, I don’t blame him for not just sticking with Marvel. If Joe Q pulled that crap in his run of ASM, who’s to say he won’t screw with another writer’s work?

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I am so sick of seeing this…

JMS is still with Marvel, just not exclusively.
He’s still writing Thor and the Twelve.

Editorial sticks it nose into everything, and I mean everything in comics.
That’s why we have editors. It’s their job to keep the books going and make sure stuff doesn’t get completely cracked out.

JMS’ run on ASM was riddled with negativity before OMD and JQ had nothing to do with it.

For example: A lot of people talk about "Gwen’s kids"and how it was “editorially mandated”, but remember; JMS wanted them to be Peter’s, not Norman’s.
It was his story. He wrote it.
Clearly Editorial is going to have to weigh in on something like that, just like it would on any major change to a staple character like Spider-man.
JQ said (and I’m just summing up) "Change it or lose it, how about___?"
That’s his job.

JMS ultimately made the decision to not scrap it and go with something slightly different from what he originally wrote.
It’s nothing new, it’s part of the job at all levels.
From the writer to the letterer to the guy who decides where the ads are gonna be.
He knows that.

Marvel’s not nearly as bad about it as DC is, btw.
Batman can’t blow his nose without 4 editor’s signing off on it.

369

I just read a few hours ago that he’s still with Marvel, but not exclusively, so that’s my bad for not doing my homework.

EDIT: Actually, I DID do my homework. I said “I don’t blame him for not sticking with just Marvel.” So I guess I didn’t need to type that my bad thing. =)

As for JMS, I really enjoyed it, Sins Past included. Gwen started out as a nice character but Stan wrote her into the ground IMO. She cried every few panels and other writers had her do the same thing. If fans think JMS, ruined Gwen by having her do the nasty with Norman, fine. But for me, she was “ruined” long before Sins Past.

I know full well that EIC has to step in and do it’s thing in comics. My problem is Joe Q took it way too far with OMD. Sales for ASM actually tripled when JMS was on the book. Say what you want about his run but for me it was original and entertaining. With BND we’re getting the same rehashed stories from decades gone by. Apathy, I don’t mean to come off rude or start an e-argument, just saying what I think is all.

370

Well then my bad for reading that wrong.
I was just kinda ranting at the internet in general. :wgrin:

OMD was JMS’ thing too. People seem to just gloss over that fact.
He still wanted the marriage gone, they just argued over the exact science of it and how continuity would be affected.
That was all.

Has anyone considered that some of the good things that came out of his run were also due to some editorial decisions?
Probably not, because I doubt JMS is gonna post about that kinda stuff online. :rolleyes:

Personally, I never read those old SM stories that are supposedly being “re-hashed”, so it reads more like the cartoons/movies/etc to me. Which I love! (Not SM 3…so much potential…so much suck.)

Anyways, BND is now selling better than all 3 Spider-man titles combined, so (at least for the time being), they did something right.

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Apathy, no prob man. No harm, no foul, I say. :wgrin:

I actually thought OMD was good until I realized part 4 was complete and utter cow dung. I actually had some respect for Joe Q. I liked how he gave the comics their original numbers (Bob Harass was on some crack) and the other stuff he did for Marvel. I think JQ is a pretty sweet artist as well. But man, his input on OMD was not good editorial decisions, at least not in my book. JMS was gonna end the marriage as well but it probably would have ended in a much more logical and not have made Peter look like he had no balls. But hey, that’s just me. :rofl:

372

Carnage is a one-trick pony that was tricked out by his second or third issue. Personally, I think he’s an even more disgusting symbol of '90s excess than Cable.

Venom… Well, I suppose every superhero needs to have an evil doppleganger of himself. I don’t mind Venom so much, but his '90s comics really hurt his rep. Also, didn’t Daniel Way write the Venom ongoing series from a couple years ago? That wasn’t good for Venom, too. Either someone smart should write Venom, or writers should just leave him alone.

So JMS isn’t Marvel exclusive any more. Rucka’s no longer DC exclusive, so I guess it all evens out in the end.

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I’m sure you know as well as I do how this works, which is why you said ‘at least for the time being’ I’m guessing. Those sold out numbers are based on pre-orders made months in advance and copies that comic book shops themselves bought. We won’t know the full effect of how well BND Spidey’s doing until after six months. That is when we will see if pre-orders drop off and if stores order less copies.

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That is just another excuse to continue to make the story of him “struggling” what is so exciting about seeing a broke man? It is almost as if the writers doesnt want to use him his “genius” or place any ambition on him so he can make some moves to get ahead. All it is about him crying and whining why things are hard for him. Im sorry that isnt going to fly for me. I wanted to give spiderman a chance after civil war but i just cant do it.

375

Thing is, even if it only pulls in a 100k per issue it’s still doing better than FNHS and Sensational did combined.

The stores are really hit or miss anyways.
I see online that people say there’s tons of copies left, but at my local shop they only have about 20 of the second printing left in stock.
Not to mention he’s told me that he’s had other stores in the area buy copies off him to meet demand.
Same with Ultimates 3.

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That’s because a lot of people only read Amazing, still do. It’s sad though, IMHO FNSM was the book to read.

377

FNSM was a great book that unfortunately got canned for “the new status quo.” The messed up thing about it is, as someone already said on other boards, FNSM was doing everything BND is trying to do without a magic retcon.

Sano, I never noticed it until you said something, but Betty Brant is a secretary AGAIN? Dang, Peter and MJ screwed that poor woman. From Top reporter to secretary. Ouch. :rofl:

Some other things I didn’t notice until someone pointed them out:

Peter letting the mugger get away with his web-shooter. Hey, Pete, you remember what happened the last time you purposely let a crook escape? Way to live up to your responsibilities, Pete.

DCompose on YouTube brought this one up. The mugger took Peter’s wallet, therefore he could look in the wallet, see Peter’s ID and know where he lives. And upon finding out the “watch” he lifted was a web-shooter. Dawns on the criminal the dude he just robbed was Spider-Man. Aunt May gets killed.

Ghost of Uncle Ben: PETER!

Peter: Uncle Ben! Is that really you?

Ghost of Uncle Ben: Of course it’s me, you dumb $#@!

Peter: Uncle Ben, why are you being so mean to me?

Uncle Ben: Shut up, and listen to me you little #@!@. Your Aunt May is dead!

Peter: What?! But how?!

Ghost of Uncle Ben: You know that mugger you let get away a while ago? Well, he caped your Aunt May! And it’s all your fault you dumber mother$#@!$#

Peter: NOOOOOOOOO! Cue some emo music I screwed up again and Aunt May is dead because of me!!

Ghost of Uncle Ben: That’s right she’s dead because of you. I thought I told you that with great power comes great responsibility! While you’ve been living with your aunt and mooching off your zombie friend, you’ve forgotten my words. You rotten little $#@!

Peter: Mephisto, you screwed meeeeeeeeee!!!

378

Any of you guys ever read that Spider-Man/Kingpin: To the Death one-shot from the mid '90s? I saw a copy at my comic shop but didn’t pick it up because I wasn’t sure if it was worth it. Then again, the book does have art by John Romita. Spidey art from JR SR is near instant win for me.

Another one-shot I wasn’t sure about was called Gen 13/Spider-Man or something like that. Peter David wrote it. I saw several copies of it in the bargain box but I also didn’t pick it up because I wasn’t sure about it.

I need to get the entire Mary Jane books. First there’s Mary Jane, then MJ: Homecoming, then there’s Spider-Man Loves MJ. That’s a lot of MJ. How come Gwen never got her own series?

What’d you guys think of the first 12 issues of Marvel Knights Spider-Man? This was the one done by Millar. Regardless of how you feel about Mac Gargan becoming Venom in that series, you gotta love how Norman Osborn was just screwing up Peter’s life again. I’ve got the first two issues of the series and I can get the rest for a $1 in the bargain box. So I’ll be saving money but not picking up the trade.

March 8th, 10AM, two, TWO back-to-back eps of the Spectacular Spider-Man on Kids WB. Make sure you don’t miss it, true believer!

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You should get the Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane hardcover. It’s nice. The first hardcover came out almost a year ago, so hopefully the next one will come out soon.

I was just flipping through my Millar MK Spidey comics today. I got them when they first came out. If you can get them for a buck per issue, that’s probably worth it. It definitely isn’t one of Millar’s finest works, but it’s above average for Spidey. I’ve read the whole thing straight through twice. It’s got plenty of interesting moments and some funny stuff, and there’s at least one or two scenes that are particularly insightful, but the plot is kind of pushing it, even for Spidey.

Seriously, I have an easier time accepting, “No more mutants” or “I want your marriage” than the main plot of MK Spidey. How many times must Aunt May be kidnapped? I won’t spoil anything more for you, but wait until you read issue 12. You will laugh when he finds Aunt May. I don’t think it’s much of a spoiler to tell you that he will find her alive. But it is laughable, even moreso in retrospect, that a big focal point of the series is Peter being scared out of his mind and wondering if Aunt May’s still alive or not.

I do remember, though, in interviews back when this was first starting out, how Millar was basically saying he wanted to model his run on Hush. You know, just have the hero run the gauntlet of villains with an overarching mystery thread to string along readers. Ah… Those were the days… Every one was trying to out-Hush Hush. Remember when Kirkman took over MK Captain America for those last four issues during Avengers Disassembled? He said he wanted his four issues to be a supercompressed Cap story that would out-Hush Hush. Man, that really sucked.

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One of my co-workers was talking out loud and said “one more day” and I imideatly thought of THAT Spider-Man story. :rofl: