I think sc3 is a pile of garbage and anyone who likes it better than sc4 is so black, no one can see where their hair starts.
SC3 US console is pretty much cancer.
Euro/Jap versions are only “better” because, I mean, really, there was nowhere else to go but up.
Hey, whatever you like is cool, that’s fine. However, think of SC3 like a big pile of shit. Let’s say you are too lazy to clean it (which is namco) and instead, you go by and use about half a bottle of febreeze until the smell (almost) goes away. In the end, no matter what, it’s still a pile of shit. Hence, SC3 AE.
SC2
SC4
SC1 (absolute classic)
SC3 (SC3 is the fat chick at a club nobody wants to talk to, and you only talk to her at 5 minutes until closing time and assuming you are COMPLETELY DRUNK and need to get laid. This is SC3)
I would say if you have to play this game, SC3 Jap version would be best.
I was never a big fan of SC2 when it first came out and even in the prime of it’s life, however once SC3 came out…it actually made me love SC2. Soul Calibur 1 will always be the SC game for me, that game was super solid and didn’t have a ton of gimmicky bullshit in that game.
What amazes me the most is the fact that it took Namco until SC4 to finally realize that X was stupid 
. I swear she is the “Tekken Jin” of SC.
Hard to say what they thought unless there’s some official quote from them. But I think it’s possible they wanted her to be stupid, kind of like how Capcom ends up with stupid-good Sagat and Chun in almost every game. It’s possible they thought it was a good idea to have an easy-mode chick character. But yeah, who knows.
just sc3:ae
the end
True Sephiroth, me and you just hit it off.
SC >>>>>>>> SC2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SCIV >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SCIII
FYI, SC1 had a ton of absolutely retarded shit in it. Cervy iGDR, Kilik MO Glich, Lizzy forever RO, lots of weird RO floaty glitches, some pretty sloppy hitboxes all around, etc…
It just never got big enough in America for knowledge to out shadow nostalgia.
SC2 forever. <3
And despite all that, its still balanced, still tourney viable. I remember SCII having a lot bullshit as well, but my main beef with it was they dumbed it down, made parrying times too forgiving, neutered/removed too much shit and most of all made it much more linear.
Cervantes is bullshit in SCI, but Xianghua is fucking god in SCII. And if you keep getting ringed out by Lizzy in SCI as an experienced player, than its your own damn fault.
I don’t really think wether SC1 was ‘more balanced’ can ever definitivly be argued because the scene for it in America was damn near non-existant. I can count the pros that I know from it on one hand. ChaCha, DTN, WCM, FloE, Kayane… and I’m done. I’ve exhausted my knowledge of players that took that game seriously, haha.
SC2 X wasn’t ‘god’, she was just easy mode/didn’t have any bad matchups. SC3 X was god. Biiig difference between a character with a strong turtle game and a character with a move that teleports 180 degrees around your body with no recovery.
Whiffing a parry hurt a LOT more in SC2 then it does in SC4, also. You were vulnerable for a lot longer in that game.
And I don’t get the neutered/removed complaint because SC2 is the ONLY SC game in the series to get +5 versions, each version significantly re balancing the cast each time. By the time console came out, every damn character had something really good to compete with. You pit any SC2 incarnation versus a SC4 equivalent and the SC2 character looks brokesauce in comparison. Lows that are worth using for everyone? Frame traps for everyone? Viable safe mid/low mixups for nearly everyone? (Sorry, Yun, lol) Step killers for everyone?
Even SC2/3 Yun would make most of the SC4 cast look weak. SC2 Yun had a cancelable 44B, 33AB GC gimmicks, mega high damage BB, 11K (practically the blueprint low for all lows in SC4, lol), and f’n mid tier Yun in SC3 had a safe i15 mid kick launcher that lead to 25%. Shame that he was a good character in a game that only rewarded god characters. Everyone but Hilde players would think Yun was the best in SC4- actually, scratch that, they’d hate Yun too because 3K would be considered a body attack and it’d beat their auto-GIs, haha.
As a Rock player, I can easily tell you which incarination of a character seems strong and well thought out without ever leaving the mid-tier. And it’s not SC1’s.
X didn’t even win Cannes, by far the biggest SC tourney held. Mid/low Voldo did. Either Kayane or RTD were the highest placing X at that, and neither of them got top 3. I also can’t help but mention Hayate’s Yun’s OCVing all of team Belgium’s X’s/Ivy’s.
I’m not arguing there. SCIII sucks, that’s a fact. I also listed SCIV higher than SCIII, but its irrelevant because I hate them both.
You make compelling arguments for SCII, SCIV, and SCIII balance-wise, but it really doesn’t matter because that’s not my beef with them, the battle system is. When SCII was released the sidestep system, the parrying systems and many of the moves with variable properties in SC were toned down or removed altogether. An example is with Lizardman and his appearance in later titles (forget for a second his unlockable status in SCII).The systems in later “SC” titles are not identical at all - I found it to be the mirror opposite, they’re very stiff and regimented and they’ve actively gone very far in making the characters as linear as possible. Any attack which had tricky properties or a very marked risk/reward element has been either changed or removed in order to remove those elements. Even the most straightforward characters such as Mitsurugi suffer due to this approach.
They’ve also broken the parry system in that you can remove any delay frames which occur, meaning that if you parry YOU are the one at a disadvantage. They reduced the command buffer window a lot aswell, this removes the excellent parry-game we had in the original - from SC2 onwards it’s been all about reaction rather than planning ahead.
I could go on all day about how much I hate those games, but they really do not deserve that much respect.
It is debateable on the tiers in SC, at least in American community, but its generally accepted Hwang, Cerves, Xianghua are tops. And I am certain Rock is mid-tier, so I have no idea what you mean there. Seung Mina is bottom, and she can stand also. I recall someone telling me awhile ago in a discussion, even the worst match-ups in that title are 6:4, and I stand by that.
Liz is a main of mine in 2 and 4 so… I don’t have any idea what you’re talking about. :X Liz has one of the best step killers in ANY SC game- 66A. And it’s only actively gotten better in every game he’s been in, particularly now in 4 that it causes DOS. SC2 is full of ‘tricky properties’, Liz had a REALLY crazy lockdown with 4B/2K/2A/Wave Dash/Grab mixups once he got in, and patience/66A was all he really needed to get in. Unless you’re referring to the ability to step SOME horizontals, or the avoid systems, to which I say:
A) Yes, Avoid was dumb and really only one of two things I’d change about SC2. (the other being G2 glitches outside of GI) But it was hardly insurmontable for anyone.
B) The ability to step horizontals is in EVERY SC game because Namco keeps making different step rates for reasons I still don’t understand. It’s in SC1 as well, and it’s actually MUCH much worse, frustratingly so.
And while I frequently argue that SC3/4 have been dumbed down (from 2, mind you) Lizardman is an example of a character that’s definitely been given waay more tricks then he ever had before, with his new Crawl gimmicks. If every character in 4 were made with the same care Liz and a few of the other mid tiers were, I might actually like the game.
That’s not even touching things like SCC in SC2, where, for example with Raph, you could do Launcher->6BB:SCC and have lvl 1 GC mixups on wakeup. Every character had tons of stuff like that. Or iBT mixups if you tried to step Raph Prep. Or Raph auto-evade awesomeness on anything -10 or better. In fact, SC2 had MORE character specific little gimmicks like that then any SC game I’ve played over the years.
I do agree that in 3 and 4 they’ve removed a ton of the things that I like about SC, all of which were things that made SC2 so fun- SCC, unique Oki (Oki now is all tech traps and it’s boring as shit. I don’t want to play Tekken.), WL mixups, GI G2 (I still say that G2 made GI in SC2 more interesting and fun then any other GI system. Please G2 after I GI you, and thank you for the free command grab/low!), MUCH faster speeds (I cannot tell you how big of a mindfuck it was first playing SC4 an realizing how much they had slowed down As and Bs.), Wall Moves (pointless for most, but I still won a tourney with lizzy wall run lol) and perhaps the biggest thing, lows that were /worth doing/. I can’t tell you how often I play SC4 competitively and pined for 2s lows.
I don’t get this at all. With the exception of the G22 in SC3, you are always at disadvantage if you get parried. Always. In fact, no re-GI = guaranteed damage for the attacker, although in 4 they’ve greatly reduced that window from other games, which I find kind of silly.
However, to make up for it, you can do awesome things with parries now in SC4 like 4Ging people into a wall and getting guaranteed damage, which I did [media=youtube]5j4RdsJtmSk#t=3m41s"[/media] in tourney.
As far as inputs, in SC3/4 they returned to the SC1 inputs, as well, which I thought were kind of needlessly complex at first until I realized that the different GIs have different effects on the SG. (that and the aforementioned wall-pull of 4/1G). One of the very few things I actually like about SC4.
What… game are we talking about? Unless you’re referring to SC1, which, well, here.
Play Liz in SCI. His 22/88 A was one of his most viable tools. In SC2 it is useless, the evasive properties have been removed…it no longer causes crumple stun on CH, that sort of thing. I really can’t explain it to you if all you have to go on is SCII Liz, which is pretty much raped in comparison to his SCI. Yes, he got some “new moves”, but none that really do much save for that low-mid (forget the notation) from Cassandra (that one that hits twice). In addition, his sword length has been shortened to a noticeable amount where its clearly negative to his zoning gameplay. He was always a close range fighter, but now…
Some other stupid stuff, like his qcb command throw actually being weaker than his normal throws are ridiculous as well, although I think there’s actually a glitch that makes it do crazy damage, so maybe that’s irrelevant. But that would probably warrant a ban…
More stuff, like WS A+B no longer being effective on CH, or the earthquake move (8+A+B) no longer having a AOE and that stun property I love so much. And they actually took AWAY moves from his incarnation in SCI as well.
Liz in 3 and 4 is just bullshit to me, and I mean the gameplay, the character design, everything. I really don’t give a damn about the new “crawling” stance, nor do I care that Liz was a take on sophitia’s movelist in the original SC, I liked that about him.
As for the ranking project link, I’ll check it out and come back later…
Also, I’d like to know, where exactly you get this, “The ability to step horizontals is in EVERY SC game because Namco keeps making different step rates for reasons I still don’t understand. It’s in SC1 as well, and it’s actually MUCH much worse, frustratingly so.”
In SCI? Since when?
EDIT: Okay, I just looked at that link you gave me. Umm. I’m not getting it. Its a ranking project, which is interesting on match-ups and the like, but its not what I’m talking about; I was referring to a tier list, which is not the same.
In fact, i believe in the SC thread in this very forum, someone posted that (sans the link) and someone pointed this same point out. It had Cervantes at the bottom for one thing, which…is totally not true in terms of a tier list.
I’m not sure if one move from one lil lizzy guy is enough to deride an entire game.
SC2 Liz was super strong and I’ve won a fair bit of money with him, so I mean, you can call him weak all you want, I’ll happily take him back any day.
He had buffer glitches which were easily banned that allowed you to cancel the grab into SCCs. But his command grab is BETTER IN SC2 then it is in SC1 for one very important reason: it’s unbreakable. 
If it makes you feel any better, in SC4 it’s back to being breakable and dealing tons o’ fun damage.
8A+B now has the AOE aspect back in SC4 and it’s MEGA RIDICULOUS good for oki. I think it may have been in 3 too, but I dunno, I was too busy being a theoretical low tier hero with Rock. Never again. Either way, the AOE stun garauntees a free K now, lol.
So, outside of 22A, and WS A+B (which isn’t even important to liz player) I don’t really get complaints when he still has a reasonable mid/lowmixup, strong pokes, good launchers, decently fast knockdown low, INSANE oki, and now he comes packed with a brand new set of gimmicks that are fun and practical versus a large array of the cast.
That’s a little silly and non-commital. It’s more and more sounding like you got upset over your character being changed, REGARDLESS of wether or not it was for the better. And you blamed it on the whole game instead of moving on.
And I mean, I could even understand THAT if your character was raped. Rock was my main character for god’s sake, lol. And I sucked it up and moved on when he went from garbage tier in 3 to garbagest tier in 4. 
Well, I’ve been doing step studies for a few years now. I can give you a million tests for 3 and 4 if you’d like. Particularly 4, which was my most recent, and by far has the most ridiculous gap between top tier and ass tier step in any calibur game.
And well, here, here’s a nice little test I did just now in SC1. Took me just a few minutes to find this, and gave me an excuse to fire up the ol’ xbrick.
Sophie v. Hwang. Sophie hits Hwang with B, then does 2A. Hwang tries to step right between the B and 2A, but gets hit, understandably so since, you know, it’s a horizontal and all.
But then you do Sophie v. Rock. Rock’s a big guy, he should get hit, right? Nope, same test, but Rock is able to avoid the 2A everywhere Hwang couldn’t except when Sophie has him pinned against a wall.
You can also see this at work in another way- align with Sophie, and see how many single steps it takes to get a backgrab. 3 for Hwang, 2 for Rock.
Like, yeah, I didn’t play SC1 competitively, but I have played it with good players and, more importantly, it’s a calibur game. It wouldn’t be a calibur game if everyone didn’t step at different speeds/rates for no damn reason, lol.
And it’s also addressed by Fhong, one of the contributors to that project along with WCMaxi, the creator, that he’s ranked really low because of how linear he is in a game where movement is HIGHLY abusive. Which kind of goes back to point number one I made= that horziontals and verticals get stepped all the time for fun in SC1.
It is true that that list is hella old. Funny note: Mitsu kB2 is in SC1, but it wasn’t discovered until SC2. I wonder how that would effect tiers?
Who said one move? I merely provided a few for the sake of argument. Yes, he’s strong, he’s pretty much a CPU character mapped out with commands to make him playable. But he has lost the shield games and stuff that made him appeal to me in that title. I don’t hate SC2, but its more linear, more forgiving and less fun to me than the fluidity of SC1. That’s my opinion, but the fact the game was dumbed down starting from that title is why I start to take issue. I suppose its good for casuals.
Did you not hear how you can use a glitch in SC2 to make the throw broken? Like I said, a CPU character mapped out with commands to make him playable.
I don’t care for the systems of 3 and 4, and i already explained why. Its nice to see some of that stuff back, but not enough to make me forgive the rest of the system changes. Those beefs were mainly my issue with Lizzy in SC2, since he still played similarly to his SC1 incarnation.
Yes it is. At least in SC1.
Not at all , my main beef was the system changes. The fact lizzy got changed and lost things I considered great only placed nails in the coffin. Dunno why you bring Rock’s status in 3 and 4 up. Because I don’t care about Rock, and I don’t care for 3 and 4.
I still don’t care about those games…
And now you’ve sparked my interest again…
Wait a minute. There are no walls in SC1
So what are you talking about? And the problem with Rock seems a hitbox issue more than anything else, but eh. I can look into some more tomorrow , since 1) I’ll probably record matches this week, 2) because I’m heading to bed right now. :shy:
And You’re damn right its a calibur game, which is more than what I can say for III and IV.
I don’t mind it being old; my thing is he’s ranked low on the ranking project, but it still does not give me a tier list. Mitsu is also linear, but I would still rank him higher mid.
(Yawns) heading off to the sack right now. I will converse more tomorrow, but my main point is that the original SC has a variety of options, more fluidity in its movements, every character is viable, you can’t truly rely on gimmicks, etc. And the design of the game is the best in the series IMO. I will be glad to elaborate later.
I mean ring edge. Wall. Same idea.
Also, it dosen’t work on Cervy, too. I tested the whole top row, the only two characters that avoid the 2A to the right are Cervy and Rock, who both get backgrabs on sophie to the right in 2 steps.
Also, everyone can step it to the left post B hit. Hooray for Namco!
There were two characters that got backgrabs on sophie in 2 to the right that couldn’t avoid the 2A- Believe it was Sieg and Yoshi. Based on my experience from testing step in 3/4, I can pretty confidently say the culprit is probably their step speed as opposed to the distance.
Perhaps the biggest evidence lies in Edge Master, though. If you get Sophie v. EdgeSophie, it takes EdgeSophie 3 steps to the right to get a backgrab on sophie. However, Sophie v. EdgeCervy, it only takes 2. I think that’s pretty conclusive that step is a programmed variable that differs between characters, eh?
And yeah, 3 and 4 aren’t really calibur, we can agree on that. It’s tekken with swords now. 4 is a step up from 3 and I’ll keep supporting it (and hoping that it gets patched and everyone gets a f’n low, lol) because, well, it’s the series I’m best at.
But your original point is EXACTLY everything I’ve been saying about SC2, and I’m pretty anxious to hear what you think made SC1, system wise only, far superior to SC2. If it’s GI, then SC4’s GI is SC1 GI, and aside from GIs being easier to perform and the G2 glitch, which INCREASED the mind game for the GIer, not really that different. If it’s movement, well, SC2 movement is almost as abuseable as SC1’s, haha. I can’t really sit and hear SC2 derided for not having options when it’s exactly it’s plethora of options that made me interested in the series, and fighting games at large, in the first place.
[media=youtube]PM0m9d6QVcM"]Echeesekid is a local so [URL=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsHy0mMVbk4#t=3m15s”[/media].
Alrighty, I’m back. Whatcha’ have for me, tl_crow? Let’s see…
Alrighty then.
That’s very interesting. But this sounds character specific as well, as opposed to something massively system wise that could be considered wrong with the system. You made it sound originally like all horizontals could be sidestepped, defeating their purpose as horizontals, which isn’t true.
It’s awesome to hear you think that much of SC2, and I can’t really blame you as I use to think that game was the truth after I had when its release came out. But when I went back and played SC1 in comparison to SCII (now I own both titles at the same time, before I did not) its weaknesses became more and more apparent. Its not so much I’m deriding it, as I know SC trumps it.
There are so many unbelievably cool little touches each character has in the original. For example you know the evade properties on the hook shield I mentioned before? You can get the most insane wavedash/evade stuff going on by mixing his sneak (qct), buffer in two opposing dodges (up/down) then tag the hook onto the end. So that’s crouch condition + forward motion into 2 dodges into 3rd dodge which strikes - plus you’ve got like 4 or 5 variations on the order without even taking into consideration replacing the finish.
Every single character is like this - you REALLY can make the game and it’s mechanics completely your own. The sequels instead insist that you make use of what you are specifically given, it’s as if all the characters suffer from severe memory-loss and forget large chunks of their own command list.
I really hate the SC sequels, while they are still under the umbrella of “Namco” it’s a completely different staff behind the project and their focus has shifted completely away from the core audience of the original.
"…I don’t really get complaints when he still has a reasonable mid/lowmixup, strong pokes, good launchers, decently fast knockdown low, INSANE oki, and now he comes packed with a brand new set of gimmicks that are fun and practical versus a large array of the cast… "
The problem here is that while he may have the animations of certain attacks intact, the actual properties of the attack have been removed. The stun and knock-down effects I spoke about are gone, also the move can no longer be used as an evade - it’s useless. It’s just another example of how the game now is all “glamour”, all the “Substance” has been ripped out of it or simply missed because they know their audience now doesn’t give a damn about such things.
“Ranting Kick” has also been removed (in SC2 at least), also they’ve removed the Stun property on his ‘while-rising A+B’ attack. Everything he has which was useful in mindgames and dictating pace has been removed, now he’s just a linear striking character who only has a chance because the game system in general now is such a joke.
I HATE his character design now as well. What I loved about the designs is the original was the subtle and understated touches. Now they’re over-the-top to the extent that they look bland and unlikeable.
I have a friend who played SCIV at beta stage and thought it was dire, and was going to be comissioned to help write the “official” game guide but in the end the publisher didn’t even think it was worth their time. In the end what they got was a “Prima” guide which is nothing but a glossy version of the in-game movelists… I later tried the game myself and it was no better.
The guys who did the SCIII official guide were fantastic players. My friend hooked up with them for a session on SC and they told him how for months and months while playing the SCIII beta they would report faults and suggestions back to Namco daily. Namco ignored everything they suggested. It was exactly the same when he was doing the DMC4 guide - every single day he would report major problems with the game to them and they would either brush them off ( or tell him it’s been sorted when infact they haven’t).
It’s all about the audience shift and clueless people they use for “focus testing” - ignorant, childish people who keep saying “wouldn’t it be cool if…” rather than gamers who want to concentrate on the core mechanics.
Seriously EVERYTHING in SC3 and 4 is purely face value. The beauty of the original is finding out all the little tricks and nuances each and every attack and character using them has. Now it’s all purely animation - there’s nothing beneath the surface and the only “nuances” you’ll likely find are bugs rather than intentional clever effects. SC2 may have many “options” but taken as a whole they amount to very little in comparison what you could do with the original. Its more linear, more accessible and the overall freedom that the original gives me is mostly gone. I really think you should play more of the game before you come clamoring to me that SC2 is much better, when the best you can give me is merely tests on horizontal attacks on hitboxes and walkspeed.
There’s not really much I can say to change your opinion on the subject, as it seems your mind is made up. I love SC1 more than the second for the reasons stated above. SC2 overall is more linear, accessible and “confined” title than SC1 in many areas, and that is a fact.
I’m very sorry, but I really don’t enjoy playing SC2 as much anymore. They wrecked Lizardman in that one, he was only included in the US release because of complaints of his omission. He’s not balanced or suitable for serious play - what you’ve got is pretty much a CPU character quickly kitted out with commands which enable him playable.
I never meant to imply that all horizontals forever can be stepped, but in SC, PARTICULARLY SC1 and SC2, you can get around a very large amount of movelists thanks to poor hitboxes/extremely abuseable movement. Step is much better in SC4 but some hitboxes are worse.
And honestly, that’s true of ALL the SCs, it just sounds like you never explored 2/4 enonugh to find them.
In SC2 Lizzy B+K still had side evasion. In SC4 if you’re really that hurt over it, Sophie also has the exact same move with the exact same properties. WS A+B, 22A evasion, etc. I don’t get your complaints. For a game that has ‘no substance’, it has all the things your upset about not having. I’m sorry it’s on a mid-tier character with tits as opposed to a mid-tier character with scales.
I just looked into SC4’s practice mode real quick to check out the 22A series because I was curious to see what it did, since it’s not really a core to my game. Hey guess what? 22A evades to his right, and both knock down on counterhit. And give guaranteed OTG combos. And are safe on block versus 90% of the cast. And give really strong 8A+B AOE mixups. SUBSTANCE :B
For a game with ‘no substance’, now he has new stuns and effects on moves that he didn’t have before. 66A DOS mixups. Crawl mid-string to evade certain enemy attacks. 1K->Crawl mixups. 4[B+K]->Crawl Frame Trap. Crawl B buffer traps to bait 2Ks that normally beat Crawl As, Crawl Auto-GI to bait OTG Verticals that beat Crawl B Buffer traps while maintain Crawl pressure. B+K Frame Trap. Crazy BT B+K/BT B mixups on jumped over downed opponents. You say the “substance” is removed… that’s not true at all. It’s just different, and you didn’t want to learn something new. That’s what playing a new game entails. 
I’m sorry, but this REALLY sounds like you have no idea how to play Lizardman at all, and gave up hella early. Lizardman dominated and dictated matches when he got in range in SC2, his big failing point was mostly being unsafe (but he hit like a truck, 2nd strongest BB in the game and all) and how patient you could be on actually getting in.
That’s total opinion, and FYI, bland and over-the-top are antonyms. You’re playing an alternate history fantasy based game with sword wielding lizards. There’s absolutely nothing ‘subtle’ or ‘understated’ about that. Also, since we’re on the subject of subjectivity, Frilly Faced Lizard > You.
Aris worked on the SC3 guide. He is, in fact, the Voldo player that won Cannes in SC2, and single handedly proved the depth and balance and trickery that was inherently that game.
While this is mostly true, it doesn’t hurt to point out that X now plays like freaking Shun Di after Namco decieded they had had enough of people saying X was easy mode. Drinks = Stance Charges. Also, SC4 had a game balance patch. So I mean, SOMEONE at Namco cares. Somewhere. We just need to find that poor lost soul and give them a game of thier own.
It’s not a “fact”, it’s starting to sound like fanboy opinion. I’m actually giving you specific examples spanning about four different games, backed by about 8 years of tourney experience. You’re just plugging your ears and going “LALALA SC2 HAS NO OPTIONS” without even being able to prove you had any idea how to play SC2 Liz at a high level in the first place.
Edit: And holy shit. Just out of curiosity, I popped in SC2 and did 22A/88A. 22A knocks down on NORMAL HIT. NORMAL HIT. IT STILL EVADES EXACTLY LIKE IN SC1. Same damage, same OTG 3B combo. Literately the only difference is the 88AA series not comboing on CH, which, whatever, 22A is better anyways since it evades… Outside of Lizardman coming out of the screen and giving you a blowjob, I have no idea what more you can ask of him in SC2.
Now you just look silly, and nothing personal, I don’t think it’s worth trying to even talk SC with someone that hasn’t played their own supposed ‘main character’ seriously.
I play SC2 even to this day, although sparingly. I spent about a month with SCIV before I got tired of its similarities to SCIII and left it alone. Its more polished, its more balanced, but that’s the only good things i can really say about it.
You seem to think because a game engine is ‘technically’ competent, that makes it ‘good’. Uhh, no. If that were true, games like MvC2 would not be appreciated. If it were true, people would still thrive on CFJ.
But I wasn’t’ talking about B+K, now was I? In anycase, I’m sorry you think that Lizardman’s changes alone were my problem with these titles, but since you like to pick and choose what arguments to respond to, I suppose you can color me as you like.
…That’s it?
…In SC1, they didn’t knock down on counterhit, they caused crumple, forcing a guessing game between combo/high or low games or a throw. There is plenty of stuff he has that gives guaranteed OTGs and are safe on block; the properties the shield swing had made it interesting because of how open ended you could make the flowcharts.
Substance? I guess, but when I’ve seen more, it fails to impress.
You know nothing about me, and this post borders on rude. I play stuff from MvC2, to MB, to VF, to VS, a variety of SNK games and BR. “But I don’t want to learn something new.”
Okay. 
Additionally, he had moves that did similar things in the first title, that you improvise and create blockstrings with, but were removed. So, what, he got some new stuff back which fuctions similarly? whoop-de-doo.
Umm, yeah. I didn’t say he was weak, I said he was broke, changed in ways that made him more linear and many of his interesting properties were removed. Its not fun playing him anymore to me.
Its not about the character winning matches to me. Its about me enjoying the intricacies of the character. Which is why I don’t mind Seung Mina in SC1.
How silly can you get? I just told you it was my opinion. Of course how people perceive style is their own opinion, if people don’t like a design, how else can be, if not subjective? I liked his old design. I think his new one looks stupid. You can’t argue or criticize me on that. At all.
Indeed. I just want a throw-back to the first game’s system. I found it interesting, but that’s just me. You say the characters have gotten more to work with? Awesome, I just want the subtle character designs back, the memorable music, the more fluid system from the first.
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Which is not the problem. It knocks down on normal hit in SC1 as well. The cool thing is it gets interesting when it hits on CH…
IT DOES NOT EVADE LIKE IN SC1. NOT EVEN CLOSE
Are you just playing SCII Lizzy and just assuming what remains with him in that title works like it did in the last? I don’t know what to say; because that is completely, utterly wrong.
You can think what you want, but I know i have done a competent and informed discussion on my preferences, none of which i believe you have refuted. In addition you have just plain gotten some of your facts wrong about the shield swing, which makes me wonder how experienced you are on SC1.
This is my last response, considering how you’ve pretty much descended to insults in a few of your points, so have the last word, but I really think its a shame how this series has degraded. Its not fanboyism, nor do I have any reason to hate because something is new. I would love to support these new titles, not only would I have competition, but I wouldn’t have to expect strange stares whenever I say, “I like SC”, but I won’t enter the tourneys.
SC2 is godlike, SC1 is demi-godlike, SC4 is maybe godlike someday if Namco gets off their fat asses and finishes it, SC3 has a godlike sophie 2p costume, SC3AE is so godlike nobody can play it, and GOD DAMMIT CROW YOU CAN’T REMOVE 2G FROM SC2 OUTSIDE OF GI’S! NIGHTMARE NEEDED THAT SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT
In conclusion, there should be an SC2 side tourney at Evo. 