Jizzon - How many HDR majors were there? Not very many so well never know on the Gief front due to the lack of exposure but its like i said, i noticed a huge difference right away along with alot of other players whom i mentioned earlier.
As for Gat, the knee was already a good tool as it was but what real purpose does the three hits serve? Its a real head scratcher for me. A fast but cheap fix to get someone cornered? As for his FB game, its a good mix between O/N.Sag so that was a good change overall since he can still space well. As for Chun, of course her old SBK wouldve been perfect along with her toned down super damage. Asking for O.Chuns jp. mk wouldve been great too but coupled with her old O.SBK and keep charge super, that probably wouldve been toooooooo much. In anycase, i would rather have the ability to escape rather than damage options since Chuns wakeup is already really shitty.
All in all, i would still be playing HDR if the connections were more reliable (not to mention the comp) but as time went on, it just got worse which is why i stopped playing completely.
'Gief is certainly a great character with some AWESOME pokes (sweep, cr. jab, etc…). However, how can he be “OP” when he loses to Honda, Dee-Jay, Guile, Sagat, Dhalsim, Vega, Cammy, and Chun-Li? Of course, if he gets in then he can WRECK with his splash and SPD setups. But still, those characters have the tools to play keep-out regardless of the fact that room for error is VERY low.
I myself havent jumped on in forever. Now i just stick to GGPO. My bother on the other hand still plays occassionally. He uses all sorts of chars for BS but mains Hawk and Claw. I took the stick so he plays on the 360 pad which is kinda gross IMO lol.
Cause i used to have my own handle and then my Gold expired so its like, why buy another year when i could use my brothers for free? And use T0. Youll feel better about the speed on GGPO.
And my brother told me he was playing Voltech last night and he mentioned Chun. When he told Voltech that we are 2 different people he said something like, “oh that makes sense”. The playstyles do give it away. That and i only use Chun. My brother throws out any char, but mains Hawk and Claw.
Not to mention, its funny the only people who complain about Gief are people who dont play or no longer plays HDR…Yet the regulars who learn to play against him still dont rank him Top tier or even close to broken.
Players evolve when you play each other long enough…Look at ST, Hawk is no longer bottom tier…You guys didn’t give HDR enough time to evolve…
If the connections were stable, yes i would still be playing but it wouldnt be for long since there is a steady decline for HDR. Diehards will still play it no doubt but its not what it used to be. GGPOs activity on the weekdays have declined yes, but on the weekends its full of high level comp which is what entices me to go there.
That and the funny ass conversations that take place there…
Only Americans thought hawk was low tier, the Japanese always felt he was upper tier. Now that people are actually able to execute the death loop in the US, people are beginning to realize how good he is.
Since HDR has been out it’s been said over various stages of the game’s (all too short) life span that Ryu is OP, Honda is OP, Zangief is OP, etc. It’s like any other fighting game with decent balance, tiers and opinions change over time as things are found and then adapted to. The only thing everyone still agrees on is Akuma is still broken and not tournament worthy.
I think most people who stuck with HDR have adapted to Giefs buffs. Yes he’s much harder to beat in HDR than ST, but that was kinda the point since he’s nowhere near the top in ST. Broken? I don’t think broken. Still mid/low tier? I think he’s closer to high mid now, but his worst match-ups are still hard match-ups for him.
IMO Honda is wayyy up there… More so than he is in ST anyway. I don’t really remember people getting in on fireball characters as easily as they do with Honda in HDR. It might be because I’m bad at this new matchup. (ST player here). I’ve had hondas destroy me in ST too but they had to find ways around fireballs.
Giving hawk a whiff is weird. He’s still good but he isn’t (Cue Alex) YOU CAN’T ESCAPE good.
I don’t have personal exp with a super good Gief in HDR. Tons of Hondas and kens mostly with a few chuns and 2 or 3 amazing ryus and feis. However, the buffs are extensive.
I kind of like and don’t like what they did to ken. On one hand, it’s nice that the shoryus work. On another, the consistency in which they work guarantees a ton of damage for simple reactions. A patch up for this would be having it be more range specific, but not as strictly specific as in ST.
The extent to which kneebash was nerfed isn’t really THAT necessary.
The lk tatsu buff is kinda meh.
Chun got a whole bunch of weird changes that weren’t really needed.
She has her HF air sbk. Um… why… Seriously, now she can FLY. Plus this takes away her air old tatsu meter building. However the new meter building can be instant aired backwards, so it can be safer. Looks weird though.
The new overhead sbk thing…I think they expected her to have more fireball trouble than she actually does. I appreciate them trying to make ground sbk useful again but still… All you need for a similar effect is to give her the super sf2 air sbk motion. That move is good.
Not having followups connect after super is kind of a bummer.
Did sagat really need much besides his frieballs/shoryu being a bit better? N Gat is “smart” Sagat. You have to be smart when you play him. You have to know when to throw fireballs and when not to. And in the right hands he’s still good.
Honda moved up on the list, due to the ease of which his hands come out, and his new jab headbutt helps a little bit, but he’s not THAT much better. He’s still fairly easy to zone, and the loss of his damage/stun on his ochio and its positional advantage, and reduction of chip damage on hands, has really changed how he plays.
Hawk is worse, and I don’t know of any ST hawk players that like him at all in HDR. Giving him a whiff animation, while a smart change made in HDR, doesn’t give that ‘insta-win on knockdown’ factor anymore. He has to work harder to get the wins.
Gief got a lot of buffs, and there’s no doubt that he’s been made incredibly strong in this game. Potential range on his SPD is insane…SF4-level insane. Little wonder that SnakeEyes did so well with him. He’s already an incredibly strong and talented player, AND you give him one of the best versions of Gief in recent times? Ridic.
Ken got buffed, that O.Ken uppercut is way too good, combined with knee-bash. Even though the damage was reduced, it doesn’t change the ease of which he can land it.
Chun got some more fun tools to play with, but she really didn’t need anymore. The SBK decision is odd, and thrown in there for fun, when it’s not really fun. Ultimately what hurts her is the loss of the INSANE damage she gets off of a super.
I actually like Sagat’s design. I’m irritated at his cross-up tiger knee, but overall, he’s a pretty character than n.sagat, and not the ridiculous shit that was o.gat.
SFIV gioef whishes he could be hdr zangief, wishes with all his might. Also yeah gief got a lot of buffs, but he still loses to vega, honda, blanka (probably loses worse to blanka now), etc. Zangief doesn’t beat anyone that he didn’t beat before, he just loses less hard
What gief has going for him is that he is an excellent meta game pick in north america, since many top players play ryu and balrog, and zangief does well against ryu and does better than most against balrog, which is pretty important
I believe he has the ability to kara-normals into his SPD. I’m not 100% sure of this, but I know the ease of input for his SPD made it a WHOLE lot easier to just walk up and command grab. That shit took some serious skill in ST.
He is very strong in HDR though, but tbh, SnakeEyes is a great player that took him to the highest level, and dominated. Maybe it’s the lack of top-level Gief talent here in the US.
Overall, it was just a bunch of series of small buffs here and there that made him pretty damn strong. I believe Damdai would call HDR Gief “like playing baseball with a rocket-powered aluminum bat.”
I don’t think it’s as simple as “oh he counters all top players in the game”. Not true at all, Gief has a lot of tough matchups, and undoubtedly there are a lot of good players that counter him just fine. Plenty of good Deejays, Guiles, Hondas, and O.Sagats, just to name a few.
Actually damdai said that gief loses to everyone 3-7, if you don’t remember.
In st there are many top players, like valle, choi, and justin wong who play old sagat, and it is incredibly tough for gief to win that in super turbo.
It really is that simple imo. Just because he has many small buffs, you can’t just think “Well look, he has the most number of buffs! He must be the most improved!” What is really important is taking the SIGNIFICANCE of the buffs. Slightly better jump mp doesn’t change much, slightly better cr fierce doesn’t change anything really. Green hand generally helps vs some characters, but it is still pretty slow. Better hop is always nice, but how much mileage can you really get out of it? Is the slightly easier spd and running bear grab that game changing?
Compare all his changes to the amount of complaining that goes on about ryu, who has one change. Or even to the change on fei long’s rekkas and super. Or cammy having a safe drill.
Those changes affected their character way more than any of zangief changes affected him
