So Soul Calibur II's not cool to play anymore?

Current Fighting Games Fighting Game Discussion
41

SC3 is reportedly set for a Fall arcade release, lol.

Anywho, SC2 is beyond dead. Nobody cares about the game anymore, end of story.

-There are two, maybe 3 good unblockables in the entire game off the top of my head.

-Mid/low mixups aren’t that good compared to most other games 'cause sidestep often beats them for free. If there were more good lows things would work well, but very few track step.

-Throws aren’t very strong. The average throw speed is 16 frames (Tekken’s is 12; VF’s is 8) and the break window is quite large. Plus they don’t track step worth shit.

-All guard crush moves are linear. They’re generally more useful than unblockables but that doesn’t say much.

42

SC2 was the shit for it’s time but for some onlin DOA i would’ve sold that shit too do we’ll get flamed together…but i stil like SC more that DOA because DOA seems more cheesy if that exist anymore in my universe (i play MvC2) :pleased:

43

For the unblockable… You mean Ultimates right? I hope you are referring to the Soul Charge ultimates, otherwise that’s a waist of time. The start-up is a dead give away to get the fuck out of the way.

High/low mixups… Maybe, but those can still be blocked if not predicted and stopped.

Throw… escapable, hell even Guard Impactible.

Guard Crush… feasible but still a little predictable and Guard Impact can stop it.

So turtling would still be rewarded.

44

I’ve never had problems turtle busting. I"ve also played decent level comp, not tournement worthy but still good

45

If it’s not tourney worthy, who cares?

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-as already stated
-The only chars that I can see having a good high-low mixup would be…oh my, is it true??? X, Yoshi, and Mitsu. X has one of the best 3B moves and can get nice damage off of it and she has the 3A,K combination. Mitsu, another good 3B, and he has the 2K, B. Yoshi, please, he has the stone fists which give him a lot of options. Although these three have the crazy stuff, keep in mind that turtling does not always mean blocking. 8WRing can make a lot of moves useless.
-already explained
-I’m just assuming that you’re kidding

Post GI moves are also some things that used to be doable in the past, but like i said, turtling just got more popular and post GIs became less effective.

BTW, i don’t remember who asked why Mitsu was great, but I can sum it up pretty quickly. He has the 2K, B which goes in a circular motion, knocks down the opponent, and it is fast, what more of a low move do you need? His mids deal a lot of damage, and they are also pretty fast. He has fast poking moves. Anything I miss?

47

I’m just being honest, I’ve faced comp that’s good locally, not nationally.

Probably still better then 80% of the players out there though.

48

What’s really fun is pissing off offensive players with Raphael. No need to GI or turtle with him, just use his auto-evades and use his speed attacks.

49

Good luck with the unblockables and guard crushes. Their start-up frames are huge, and you have plenty of time to sidestep the move and punish the hell out of it. The only way they’re going to hit is if you’re playing some newbie who is going to suffer the deer-in-headlights effect when they see it coming.

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You forgot Taki as having a good high-low game. Taki is very offensive. Taki is also definitely not high tier. Upper-mid at best, most likely dead mid. Also, there is less difference between the top and bottom tier in SC2 then most games. VF is better in this regard, but SC isn’t bad.

Let’s put it this way. I’d have about 5 times as much chance using Yunsung against Xianghua then say, Kuma against Nina, or 3 of just about anybody vs a top tier MVC2 team (well, since I don’t play that, I would have no chance).

51

Whoever says that SC2 isn’t turtle friendly. Play Tekken 4 then play SC2 and tell me that again.

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Ok . .I was throwing out the possibilities of attack against a turtle.

I got quoted by like 198 people :confused:

alright. . I’ll try to hit some key points

-A true turtle will eat a UB or a GC just because turtles tend to have “deer in headlights” syndrome. If you are getting smashed then you just need to up your game. It’s not like getting rushed is the end of the world.

-Nightmares 3B, B does not crush. A A [ B] crushes. The last B in AAB is the same as the last hit in 3B, B… but that one does NOT crush.

-Dan the Nightmare. . lol big deal? Watching tournament videos during the final brackets of ANY GAME is stupid. . because by then they want that big ass money pot so they wont try anything stupid.

-High low game consists of man made strategies. Ivy for instance . .not much of a high low game. . you have to cancel and ect. For her mixup to be used effectively(9+A+B, A. .skip the last A and 2A instead, her fastest low). . so in turn EVERYBODY has decent enough high low game to punish bulldogs. Tekken 5 is worse at punishment actually. .the low jabs STILL come out a little too quick, where as a seasoned SC2 player can guard impact and parry all day long.

-and I WAS talking about the overall speed on Tekken 5. It IS faster. I got that STRAIGHT from Tekkenzaibatsu from the Tekken 5 incomplete test versions before the game was even released.

-And running around the ring in SC2 for the most part is stupid. Especially since there is a button devoted to horizontal attacks, so stepping to the side is just crazy. I always though it was funny how a scrubby Raphael would literally try to dance around the ring on a decent Ivy or Nightmare and get DESTROYED>!!!

Raphaels fatal flaw is that his auto evades are only useful against single hit attacks.

-So you might evade the first hit of Talims 44+A, but you’re bound to get ripped by the A, 236+B

Taki?(PO rush. . baits … ect) . .Astaroth? Huh? (PT. . ?) Thats at the most.

Ivy’s throw game is much more complex. It they added another command throw to her movelist she would be a monster.

You would be suprised. Anyway . .theres still the various mixups. Unblockable cancels … quick lows. Turtles are no problem . .if the “turtles” are stopping attacks and blocking at the same time you arent dealing with a turtle, they are bulldogs using rushdown tactics. .which is completely different than turtling.

-Tekken is more about “getting the first hit in” than soulcalibur. Because Guard Impacts ARE so easy to do.

53

Basically, Astaroth should have more grapplesthen he does now.
That being said, he also has crouching grabs.

Raph’s counters should mostly be used against power attacks, GI the jabbity death stuff, or better jab, out-jabbity them- you do have some of the quickest light attacks, which mix up well (AA, AB, A, down+A do mix up fairly well)

Ivy does have more setups, she’s definitely a tourney-worthy character due to her wide variety of tactics, but she isn’t so overwhelming that she’s the best. I haven’t read too much about SC tournies, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some good character diversity with winners.

As for running, I could see a Raph running, looking for the sideswipe, cancelling to his counter, then doing a quick poke in return, but he’d be better off just poking. Raph doesn’t want to be back to ring though, his RO game is decent so he should look for a quick position reverse.

54

No, someone who’s mentally worn down or inexperienced has the “deer in headlights” syndrome. You don’t need crazy reaction time to duck, sidestep, backdash, interrupt, or GI UB/GC moves because the majority of them aren’t very good. GC moves in particular are very weak vs passive sidestep, and if you’re training them not to abuse that you might as well go for a mixup anyway once they stop moving 'cause it’d be way faster.

A,A,** is also a horrible string. Nightmare’s A,A in general is just shitty.

What about any Mick vs RTD finals where they played for real? Or X_SC2? Or Eternal Fighter? Or Aris vs DTN in France? Or Devil X vs anybody? There’s plenty of hardcore turtling to go around.

9A+B “mixups” are only good if you can quickly do SS/CS and it was only scary early on to begin with. And 2A isn’t low genius.

I thought we were discussing how to break turtles. :confused:

This statement makes no God damn sense. You don’t seem to know what punishment is.

It’s called step-guard. Hell, horizontals sucked before that was even discovered 'cause hardly any of them track. In fact, SC2 has very little tracking to begin with.

Another statement that makes no sense. Soul Calibur has much better movement, larger stages, a shorter time limit, and a rather obscene average level of safety on block. Winning via time-over is quite practical if you have the patience.

55

If a turtle gets hit by an unblockable or a guard crush chances are that turtle isn’t good at ALL.

Nightmare’s 3B certainly DOES crush. I’ve only played the game a couple times and I know that for a fact.

And as you said, in the finals of a tournament people are going to turtle. Yeah, they are, in SC2. If attacking was as good as you claim it is then turtling would be the stupid thing to do in that situation, but it isn’t, and never has been. SC2 is a turtles game.

Tracking is terrible in SC2. Just because there is a horizontal attack button doesn’t mean that they’re going to hit step. Step is god, very few moves can consistently beat it.

56

I just played SC2 yesterday for the 1st time in like 3 or 4 months. After playing so much Tekken 5 I started to see all of soul calibur’s biggesst flaws. If SC3 isnt completely different then the games gonna play like shit compared to t5. When I used to play SC2 I thought it was great. Now I cant see myself going back to it. I hope SC3 is good.

57

Nightmare’s 3B does not crush even when Soul Charged, it does have priority over most any move executed at the exact same time though so it does “crush” them :).

SC2 can be played in a variety of ways, turtling can be very effective, but by the same token you can have a heavily offensive-based X like Kayane’s(who has beaten RTD), suppression game Taki with Floe, and crazy stuff like Hayate’s Yunsung, and Spyder’s Maxi. There are a lot of ways to play successfully in SC2, turtling just happens to be one of them. Doesn’t mean that it’s always gonna win.

Not every horizontal move is designed to hit step. You learn the ones that do, and you punish people that step too much with them. Stepping is far from god-tier stuff though it is good.

And on the main topic, as people have said in this thread, the primary reason SC2 isn’t cool to play anymore is not that it’s a bad game, it’s a great game. It’s just that Tekken 5 has been around in arcades a while and is now out on PS2. It’s the new hotness, and with Soul Calibur 3 supposedly coming out in the fall, there’s not much reason to get juiced up about playing SC2 anymore since the sequel isn’t far away.

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Yeah, but it’s not to meant for multi-hit attacks. It’s best for the strong slashes that say Astaroth would have. Using an evade against characters like Talim or Maxi would be stupid anyway, there’s a different plan for that.

59

God… :rofl:

I just pissed myself again…

Do you play any REAL good players? Running around is stupid? Stepping in SC2 is fucking STRONG. Play Nori. Throw out an A, he will 95% of the time step it and launch you. A’s ARE stepable in SC2, as demonstrated by Nori. He can step A’s so well its fucking retarded. Other players can step A’s as well, but no one as good as him. A’s arent a reliable answer for step if your opponent can step well.

GI’s ARE NOT the answer for everything. “Seasoned” SC2 players RARELY use it.

Good turtles DO NOT freeze at an unblockable or GC. If they just stand there and get hit by it, holding G, THEY MUST FUCKING SUCK. You seem to lack a shit load of knowledge in what a good turtle possesses.

BTW, NMs AA** is a shitty string.

Get more knowledge, then come back here…

60

You need to take something for that incontenence problem.

Soul Calibur II is still “cool” to play, if you feel like playing it, go ahead, just don’t expect much competition now. The game’s 3 years old, I would bet quite a good bit of arcade machines holding SC2 are busted up and not that good, and you know arcade operators may not care enough to fix the machine if there’s no interest in it. The game’s just been played out. It doesn’t mean the game is now “bad”, which, if you need to play it for 2 years to somehow decide it now sucks, then go back in time and punch yourself in the eye for not deciding that when you had a legitamite chance. SC2 is a great game, still is. Though you can probably bet a bit of renewed interest when SC3 gets ready for launch, people will want to practice up on it.

And I fail to see how SC2 is considered a “turtlers” game, when you cannot logically have both players turtling at the same time, not when one has lower health than the other. The one player that’s lower on heath has to be the offensive player, and it is not that hard to knock off turtling in SC2. If you have a player that keeps guarding, mix up your weapon and kicks high and low, not just rely on your weapon. Kicks can come out much faster than weapon attacks. If you throw them, mix up the A+G and B+G, that’s what they’re there for. If they press the wrong escape button, that’s their problem. Throws DO track sidestep by the way, the character will instantly turn and do the grab. Use 6+A/B/K up close since those are the quickest up close attacks, mix those up with high and low kicks. Fake your unblockables, start them up, then cancel them, don’t actaully follow them through. Just like faking your regular attacks (pressing G right after A, B, or K), attempt to make them move. If they don’t move, look above and read again.