SO MANY scrub players

Classic Fighting Games SSF2T: HD Remix
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My friend, I was once like you. The fact of the matter is that you need to substitute your use of “casual” for “lazy” because that’s exactly what kind of thinking and playing you’re doing. I know…lazy seems like fun because it doesn’t take much effort…however, when you start thinking about how to counter stuff that you deem to be “cheap”, it’s then and only then that you realize that this game has a wonderful and enduring depth of play that has kept it going for as long as it has.

It’s called…the yomi layer…also known as “the mind game layer”. When you start developing this aspect of the game, it becomes that much more fun. After all, it’s only when you get people to let you throw them that you can say stuff like “Fooled you!”, “Gotcha!”, “Wake up!”, “Where are you going?!”, and, of course, “Psyche your mind!” :slight_smile: Aren’t many of the games that have lasted throughout time based on out-thinking your opponent?

So, in a tribute to that one-hit wonder group called “Onyx”, you can get with this (yomi) or you can get with that (lazy, mindless fighter), we’ll choose to get with this…'cause this is where it’s at…

…and there’s nothing that you can do about it…except get better.

The choice is yours. This could be your turning point, like it was mine. Think about it.

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I quoted a video the best explained what I was trying to say on this matter… where was it… oh yeah here: [media=youtube]Q_E3n0hZZug[/media]

Daigo won the match, but he was able to do the “coolest technical shit” while doing it. THIS is what I was talking about.

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I didn’t follow the link, but I can only guess that this is the infamous “The Beast Is Unleashed” full-parry of Chun Li’s SA2. Daigo’s been doing stuff like that for a while in other games, granted, and skillful finishes do tend to make for the most exciting matches, and I love me some skillful finishes…

…but you’re missing the point.

How was that skillful finish created? Off of a noticable mistake (no offense to Justin Wong, who easily has the credentials to prove he’s a great player, but…yeah…a super flash announces a super at least a second in advance) that also involves a gameplay feature that, frankly, a lot of people have called broken, myself included.

Any mistake can be capitalized upon in a variety of ways. Just because you deem that way unskillful doesn’t mean that it doesn’t earn you the ‘W’ and, in Daigo’s case, the PRIZE MONEY!!!

Read my post again. It’s a different mentality and, frankly, a different level. You can choose to go up the stairs or you can choose to be thrown to death whenever someone who’s added mindgames to their skill set waltzes into your room.

Your choice. Tell your friends. While you’re at it, y’all read David Sirlin’s book “Playing To Win”. Rose’s low strong…52 times? Boring…but it won…and it was counterable, too.

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I get what you’re saying, and thanks for replying with some productive criticism. I dunno if “lazy” is the right word either… cuz to me, spamming fireballs, and turtling seems more lazy to me then someone attempting a cross up and nailing them with a 3 hit combo. Timing and positioning your character to do a proper cross up and nailing them with a combo requires more time and practice to pull off rather then spamming fireballs. YES YES I know that’s all fancy useless shit to do in a match… but I see this stuff getting pulled off in tournament matches, and these guys are playing to win and actually WIN. So I don’t where people get off by saying all that technical stuff is “useless”.

It’s clear that no matter what I say, people are gonna refute it anyways… because all you elitists smite down on people who can’t see it in a different perspective without even trying to logically explain it or ending off in stupid petty remarks. I thought SRK was better then this.

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No that was not Diago’s full parry clip. Making a post like that without even seeing the link?

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Again…remember…I was you once. “Lazy” is the right word. Spamming fireballs and turtling, while I despise such practices, are tactics that are easily countered. If you want your opponent to stop doing it, you have to make them by countering it! That requires mental effort on your part.

See…that’s the thing…you’re too busy being focused on what other people are doing to you. How about you focus on what you’re doing? That’s the only thing you can truly control. When you know what you’re doing, then you’ll be able to take control and dictate the match. Then…you’ll win more and the people that annoy you will become the people you cause to raise their game!

How’s that sound? You could actually get better and make other people better at the same time. The choice is yours.

I don’t think I’m being an elitist here. If I was, I would’ve flamed you and said nothing else. I’m actually trying to help you here. You obviously don’t know my reputation as a poster on the net for 13+ years…otherwise, you’d know different. You can Google my name if you really need more proof that I’m trying to help you, but the real proof will be if you actually try what we’re telling you.

You did notice how many people are telling you the same thing, right?

Anyway, since logical is what I do, lemme help you.

If people spam fireballs, jump and combo them while they recover.
If people turtle, you absolutely have to out-think, out-poke, and out-throw them.
If people throw, since you can’t be thrown while in block stun or hit stun, you’re in a neutral state and, therefore, you CAN do something about it. You can throw them, use a reversal special or super move that starts with invincible/unthrowable/aerial frames, or poke/combo them if they mis-time their throw attempt.

We’re refuting what you have to say because we know what works. You can either use it or keep getting beat down. Questions?

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C’est la vie. I was wrong about the clip…but what I said about capitalizing on mistakes wasn’t. I noticed you didn’t address that.

Maybe the problem really is like I said. You’re not willing to look at yourself. You’ll never progress that way.

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Albedo, the thing to realize is that these are all just tools. Normal moves, throws, combos, cross-ups, supers. Each one is important, but you have to make proper use of these at all times.

In higher-level SF2 play, combos and supers and all kinds of “fancy” stuff are used, but they’re the exception, not the norm. You should be good at doing all of the fancy stuff, so in the rare occasion that someone screws up badly and leaves themselves wide open you can capitalize on it.

The irony is that this is also precisely why many good players play most of their matches cautiously, using boring moves like well range pokes and throws. Sure, you could try to go jumping in for the big combo every time, but against other good players, that’ll just get you killed. They’ll do a “simple” counter-move every time you try.

The general gist of playing better is to do mostly safe attacks, and then punish your opponent HARD when he gives you an opening. If you watch that vid you posted again closely, you’ll notice a lot of what Daigo was doing was relatively safe. While it may look like a crazy balls-out rushdown, once he landed the first hit of almost every rush in, most of the subsequent attacks were more or less safe, whether they were blocked or not. And when it did hit, bam! Big damage!

Also, take note that he won the 1st round of the 2nd game almost entirely with throws. That’s the great thing about throws. It keeps the opponent guessing as to what you’re gonna do next. Pokes? A big combo? A throw? Unless you mix throws heavily into your game, there’s no guess work. The opponent just blocks, every time.

You can only play effectively when you truly make use of all these tools. And when you do that, the game does become deeper and more fun. If you can’t reverse or block these things, it may seem shallow. But it’s not. Instead you need to learn how to counter those things, or better yet not get put into that position to begin with.

There’s a lot more to the game than just throws and combos, but hopefully you get the gist. At the end of the day, this is a one on one game. The “fun” comes from using all your tools and trying to outsmart the other guy. Basing too much of your game off any one tool or arbitrarily crippling your game by not doing something only makes the game more shallow. It may be more fun to watch, since it might look more “crazy”, but I certainly think it’s less fun to play that way.

Go balls out! Give it your all! That’s when the game becomes deep and fun :wgrin:

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^^

That’s real talk right there…and I’d rep you if I could.

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I’d rep you both if I could

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Sorry OJ, that particular comment wasn’t exactly aimed at you, I’m talkin about the other people who replied, you actually have very intellectual responses, and I thank you again for them. But I really get what you’re saying, and I already have started to play like that, and getting much better at it, but still…I think a part of me just doesn’t want to let go of how Street Fighter used to be played around when I was growing up. I think that’s just the beauty of Street Fighter, the people evolve and shape out what the game turns out to play.

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SweetJohnny, that was well put, and your points make a lot of sense… thanks for the reply. and YES rep up all the way lol (can’t do it since I’m the newbie scrub here lol)

Thanks for being polite and understanding.

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In a sense I agree with you. There have been a lot of times where I’ve been frustrated by another player who basically abused something over and over again. However, there’s a distinction between someone that’s a scrub, and someone that’s annoying. I’ll be honest and admit that whenever someone abuses something against me (other than Genei Jin) I’ll call them a scrub in my mind. But when I step back from the moment of the game, I realize that I don’t know anything about the player that just kicked my butt with nothing but throw loops, sonic booms, or Aegis Reflector setups. The player could very well be a scrub and a one trick pony. Or your opponent might very well know a lot more about the game than I do, I just didn’t make him adopt a different strategy.

At that point it is up to you to either complain and vent your frustration (sometimes very necessary) or try to think of a way around your opponent’s strategy abuse. If you find away around that fireball trap and completely destroy your opponent, then you can be pretty certain you are playing a scrub. But if your opponent puts up a good fight, then you’ll know that you have a good opponent on your hands. Either way, you won’t know until you try to adapt. Sometimes it’s harder than it should be (old st balrog throw loops gave me a lot of trouble), but you just have to put up with it.

I want to be supportive and say that I know how you feel, but at the same time I want to encourage you to try to work around what seems like a cheap trick.

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Part of why people jumped on you was because you used the word cheap.

That’s a no no in SF.

I had a guy tell me today that guile, honda, sim, and blanka were all cheap and were put into the game for people that wanted to play defensive. He uses ryu, and by the way he explained it, he didn’t use reversals/defense on wake up against some of these characters.

If your opponent beats you there can only be two possible reasons, you messed up, or the damn PS3 controller sucks.

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lol naw, I use a custom stick :woot:

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I was fucking pissed when I was playing Choi in CvS2 and when he threw me and I shouted respect, he then supered while I was clearly walking forward for my free throw.

His dad wants to know where the chedder is? It’s on his sons round one win icon due to throwing.

Fuck I’d be in the top 100 were you fucking heavy button mashers not around.

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Post of the year.

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There are no rules. There is no HONOR. At minimum you play to win. At best, you play to dominate and destroy your opponent.

Adapt instead of making excuses.

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SweetJohnnyV is spittin that hot fire. Make no mistake dude is a beast. He HANDED my ass to me at Evo.

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Why do they need to do they need to cross up and capitalize on dizzies if what they’re doing seems to be working just fine?

I get what you’re trying to say, but it just sounds like you yourself aren’t very good at the game yet, (no offense in that, and no shame in it either), got frustrated with players beating you online, and came here and ranted about it.

There are a lot of bad players online, granted. But if the connection is fine, a decent player should be able to run through them with ease. I’m testament to that, because I’m not very good at ST yet either, and have no problems with most random players lol. They let me get away with just about whatever I want.

EDIT: Wow nm, I thought this was only two pages long lol. I probably repeated a grip that’s already been said. Also looks like Sweet Johnny laid down the law.