Late last night I ended up in a random room where I think almost everyone knew their shit. There was a really good Dhalsim player, a good Guile player, a good Ken/Ryu and someone that seemed to be pretty decent with a bunch of characters. Initially I lost to Ken’s DP spam as usual and then came back 8-4. One of the people I beat thought to “school” me for revenge or whatever and showed me how awesome he was zoning Dict with Akuma.:looney:
Anyway, the point of this post is that after I started making a comeback, some of them actually started whining about how throws should be removed from the game because they kept having a hard time getting through my defense (blocking) and would try to throw me, which I would reverse.
I think the main problem with throws is that they’re so easy to do that many players do them on accident which also leads to throw softening on accident. There are 6 attack buttons and many characters have 2 attack buttons that can do throws with a simple push of a direction + the button. Those are pretty decent odds at accidental throw or throw soften. I think throws should all be done like Zangiefs then you’d see less “scrub” players throwing all the time and a lot less throw softening. Only the people that knew exactly what they were doing would be the ones throwing and throw softening.
As for myself I’m not bothered by throwing at all since as long as you’re careful with how close you get to an opponent you won’t get thrown all that much. I think most people that blame throwing as a “scrub” tactic are people that jump in to combo without actually knowing which moves are safe to do that close. If you jump in and don’t know what moves to follow up with chances are the throw will have the priority to catch you. Or if you jump in too deep depending on the character then the throw will catch you. Now if you’re being thrown on get-up or walked up to and thrown then that’s something entirely different and that shouldn’t really happen all that much, and if it does then its your fault.
So yea while throwing doesn’t bother me all that much I always have thought it was kind of too easy to accidentally throw someone since it is a shared move input depending on distance.
SF is basically rock paper scissors on a very small scale, a scale that people can easily grasp and learn fairly quick. I think that is its appeal. When you look at 3D fighters they’re the same way just with a lot more moves/combos/reversals so its harder to immediately grasp that rock beats scissors or paper beats rock because there are a lot more elements involved. I’ve heard people say SF is more technical than many 3D fighters, but I don’t fully agree. It’s just that the technical aspects and mind games are more apparent when the size of the game is of smaller scale.
This doesn’t mane any sense to me, how can you accidentally throw someone? You literally have to walk up to the opponent and press one of the throw buttons. So unless you have no concept of zoning, and play the game like its rock-em sock-em robots, I dont see it.
Throwing is what it is, a tool to use to beat your opponents strategy, throws beat blocks, if you don’t like it, play better.
I have actually thrown someone accidentally. I was using Ryu and was going for the cross up fk, f+fp, c+fk, hadouken. The timing on my crossup was off so I hit the opponent with the fk too early. When I landed and tried to do the f+fp, it threw him instead.
I was playing the other day and the guy on the mic was telling me “I’d appreciate it if you don’t kick me on the otherside when I’m getting up and throw me… it’s players like you who ruined Street Fighter before” – I was crossing him up with Blanka and tick-biting.
Sorry, but there’s a reason Blanka has the best normal-throw in the game.
Actually, Vega has it in HD Remix. Try to do throw resets and with pokes against a dude that mashes back and fierce. Of course if you do a delayed jump at him then he will eat a hit and you are positioned for a combo.
i can see where some of these folks are coming from. back when i was younger (91-94) the arcade did have a code of ethics… you wouldnt tap throw the whole match or just spam fireballs, or rock the handcuffs or space throws (glitches were always seen as cheese, and there were a lot of glitches in WW)… this was a respect/honor system between the higher skilled players. no one complained if some one stared to tap throw, you would just ‘cheese’ them worse. If all you have is a tap throw or a fireball trap as yer game plan yer not good; if you cant beat a tap throw or a fireball trap… your game is worse.
a big difference between back then and now is the face to face element… you and yer 5 homies could intimidate someone into your ‘rules’ and different arcades had different rules. some spots didnt like throws (i never found this true w/ street fighter only MK), some places you wouldnt hit them if they were dizzy, etc… now that getting yer ass kicked in real life for ‘cheesing’ is no longer an option the game has evolved into the true who ever has the most effective technique (taps, traps, throws, anything) wins. THAT IS A GOOD THING. bring your full bag of tricks and i will bring mine.
The other day someone dizzied me a few times and each time he wouldn’t do anything when I was dizzy so I stopped moving altogether until he hit me once because I looked at it as a way of trying to say he was better and didn’t need to take advantage of the dizzy.
^^^^ That’s actually pretty smart right there. 1991 was something else…
I always thought it would be cool to go back through time and play in the golden age of SF, but with what I know now it doesn’t sound quite as exciting.
yea… thats the way it use to be. was it me? I still fall into that old habit and leave ppl alone during a dizzy… it is a way of saying im soo good i dont need the dizzy or to use ‘cheese’ moves. In today’s street fighter world it is needed tho, because you know 99% of the time that the other player is gonna do everything they can to win.
This actually goes beyond street fighter… in competition jujitsu a lot of people (rickson gracie was one) will train rounds with beginners/white belts (under a year of training) because you dont know what they are going to do… they will do things that would be considered ‘stupid’ but may just get them them the tap if they work, and in an official fight you never know when someone mite bust out a ‘beginner’ move.
haha!! dont knock it its something else to own ppl in person and with techniques no one in their crew ever thought of. I made a lot of friends and some enemy’s that way. Another great old school thing was making kids pay you to get off the machine so they could fight their friends… oh the old arcade hustle… reminiscing
I first started playing SF2 when it hit the arcades in my senior year of High School, 1991 in San Diego. (“91 will party on!”)
But I developed my play in the game at the University of California at Santa Barbara starting later in that same year. (would skip class and play all day!)
World Warrior was broken, and the $0.25/game cost soon steered me and my friends at UCSB to winning… at all costs.
This meant using Guile or Dhalsim, and when using Dhalsim to just crouching jab into noogie until they were dead. (usable vs. all characters except Guile who had the only wake-up move in the game… not sure about SPD)
During a break at UCSB, I made my way down to Yellow Brick Road at UTC in San Diego with my local buddy Emery, and proceeded to “dominate” off throw loops.
Emery was aghast, everyone else was pissed.
One regular there named “Al” tried to get me kicked out of the arcade.
Good luck buddy.
Next break from UCSB I returned to Yellow Brick Road again and NOW they were all throwing. (I’m sure they arrived at doing so on their own)
And they were very solid players. (and continued to be until ST)
California dominated the US scene as far as top players back then.
And once top players started throwing, nobody at the top places complained anymore.
Dude, where are you getting this stuff from? Vega’s throw range is average, at best. The longest range (normal) throws are Zangief, Honda, Blanka, and Dhalsim’s fierce throw. And don’t give me some throw priority bit, because right now, I’m not buying it. ST is too damn random for a certain character to have a “higher priority” throw :razzy:
California was the only “known” scene based on print magazines and tournaments hyped through that. It’s hard to really say because there was no “national” fighting game tournament back in the day for those games. Think about it. With the crazy amount of players in every single city playing the game, a national tournament at SFII/CE/HF’ “peak” would hit 1,000 players easily, and it’s hard to really know if a California player would have been able to go through unknown gauntlets of people back in the day.
I’m really glad the arcade I played at never had stupid rules like this because I always thought it was naive. I think the main reason it never did was because people actually understood what is in the game is in the game as long as you don’t “freeze” the game, so Guile handcuffs were out…
DevilJin: You did miss a lot during the golden age. It’s just that certain arcades has silly crap going on. The arcade I played at was everything goes. The arcade 10 miles away (same company, Fun-O-Rama) had more players and better overall comp, (but not necessarily the best players) but they would get angry if you threw them. There were no “rules” persay about it, but they would get fussy and a simple “it’s in the game and you can reverse it, what’s the problem?” would shut people up quickly.
I still have no idea why people were so freaking naive about it back then, and you can tell when you go on XBL when people shout over the MIC about throwing. There are still a lot of casual players that play or played back in the day, but are mostly armchair /indoor non arcade these days…
It’s good that some people understand what I’m trying to say here. At first I may have started quite bold by calling these people I face online “scrubs” but I just couldn’t think of any other way to say it at the time. Now for some reason a lot of people took offense to that as if I said “SRK members play scrubby” which I didn’t say at all. So I’m still a little puzzled by that.
Bottom line is, I play SF to have fun, and be somewhat competitive, but not to the point where I’m training to be fighting at EVO or something. I mean come on these are QUICK FRIENDLY MATCHES, if you play to win, what the hell do you win out of this? It isn’t ranked, and there’s no record of your wins and loses in this format, so why not try to have some fun?
I guess things for this game is different now, because back in the days, doing cross ups, combos, super combos (and of course winning) was what defined you as a “good player”. These are things casual or noob players can’t do unless they put some time (and a lot of quarters) into the game. But fast forward to now, Street fighter has been out for decades and many different versions of SF have been released, so by this time, everyone who played SF at some point (To some degree) knows how to do all those things. So at this point do I assume my opponent can do all those things even though all he does is poke, turtle, spam fireballs, and throw? Seems to me like that’s the case because apparently doing all of those things some of you claimed as “fancy” moves isn’t useful in a game like SSF2THD because resorting to pokes, throws, fireball spam, etc. is more effective. Which makes me wonder why Super Street Fighter even had a combo system to begin with, if it’s something that’s not useful or effective in any way…
well technically your opinion cant be wrong but it can be…ignorant? i dunno the right word so lets just call it “unpopular”
people are not reacting because they take offense, theyre reacting because what youre saying is…well wrong/ignorant/unpopular (pick one)
some people get a lot of fun out of playing to win, or doing the best they can in every situation. some dont. you cant expect everyone to sandbag casuals just because you like it better that way.
im not one of those rabid sirlin followers but hes got a point in his book about scrubs. and you are being MAD scrubby right now.
also a good player is one who wins matches consistently, not one who does the coolest technical shit. you can play one of those skateboarding games if you want that
its something else to own ppl in person and with techniques no one in their crew ever thought of. I made a lot of friends and some enemy’s that way. Another great old school thing was making kids pay you to get off the machine so they could fight their friends… oh the old arcade hustle… reminiscing