I have 22 years old, my first console was the NES, I grew up playing street fighter at the arcades. I have always like 2d fighters but some years ago I was a little exceptical about other 2d games genres. I remember when I saw disgaea for the first time in a magazine and I didn’t care about not even one bit. Then a friend bought it and showed it to me and I was shocked. Since then I’ve checked every single 2d game that comes to market.
I think that is what happens with casual gamers( if happened to me that I’m a hardcore!!). Also the bad ratings they give them in the magazines influences a lot.
They can’t see the greatness these games hide behind the graphics. Just look at symphony of the night, is the greatest castlevania ever but still the company refuses to make another 2d castlevania. Why because this business is full idiotic casual gamers.
Not everything stays popular forever, is the simple answer. There is a reason most singers now don’t sing disco music, while there still are a few that’ll put out a disco track every once and awhile, and there are still the subset of direhard and casual disco fans, the time of it’s extreme popularity is over.
The dissolution of the arcades, and still unsatisfactory inclusion of internet for these games make keeping and growing communities hard.
Sure one can blame the games, but there are still huge communities playing actively older games. (PC games mostly)
I don’t think it crumbled so much as eroded over time as what the general populance of gamers changed what they were into. (I mean, a few years back music games were all the rage, Parappa the Rapper, Space Channel 5, Rez, Dance Dance Revolution etc, the genre is still viable today, but not near the popularity it once had.)
Here’s what I think the problem was- our standards increased in the gameplay area as time went on- as collectively, the community got better. Do you think Daigo was Daigo six years ago? On the other hand, the scrubs- who dominate the market, had increasing standards in other areas- like graphics. You can’t make a game with great graphics and gameplay without a lot of luck and effort. After ST, we got the Alpha series, with each Alpha game having broken shit in it worse gameplay-wise then ST. We had the Vampire series, which was good, but too weird for scrubs. You had Marvel, which did well- so well that good players actually made something out of it. NG sucked due to all the broken crap in it, which turned a lot of people off the entire series until it was too late. 3s got it together, but not in time.
Basically, Capcom was in a nearly impossible position, and flopped. Other companies were not perceived to have the same standard of excellence. Capcom basically had to innovate without putting cheese in the game, which is near-impossible to do even with the best of intentions, and keep scrubs around. That is impossible. They failed in all three areas, and lost everybody. The only companies that have successfully done that in the past few years are Sammy for a while, though they are losing it, Sega, and somewhat Namco.
The reason SNK is alive is due to KOF pandering to the fanboy market in Japan. It’s not for their gameplay. Gameplay has progressively gotten worse in KOF since 98, which was the high point of the series. Sammy- same thing. Basically, if Capcom wanted to come back, it would probably have to make Street Fighter all gayed up- hire Falcoon or something- that’s about all Falcoon is good for.
Someone please let me know what Alpha features are in SF3. List any that come to mind. Thanks.
SF3 is not 3rd Strike. SF3 (1997) was wildly unpopular, and SF3:3S (1999/2000) wasn’t popular either, but a scene stared to build around ~2001 when Team USA got smashed like 24-1 when they went to Japan (This was not at B4, or “Evo” which didn’t even exist at the time. I swear, no sense of history…) After that, the scene was still small, but after getting wrekced at Evo 2002 (though not nearly as badly…it was like 22-3 …), it finally garnered some interest within the community. In the interim when the game was unpopular, it was kept alive (and ressurected, realy) mostly by Texas and IIRC Nebraska players, with a few random scenes scattered across the country. 3S owes a chunk of it’s current percieved populatrity to that Daigo vid, which I hope everyone realizes wasn’t around until…guess that year!
If you think 3d fighters are for scrubs, feel free to enter at Evo and collect your free money. If you have the elite strat of blcoking and then throwing, you’re sure to get at least 3rd place, and like $100. I don’t like FPS games or even Tekken, but i’m not gonna sit around and say they’re easy games to win at when you’re playing with people who actually know what they’re doing. If you think Magneto is great just because hscombos used to hurt your hand, you need to play a wider variety of games. Short-shot-Psylocke and random option selecting (not that you know what that means) is not what makes MvC2 interesting.
edit:
4. What is popular in Japan is not necessarily popular in other parts of the world. Sayig that random people play KOF in Japan, or that 3S is really popular at SBO or that people are looking forward to GGXXXXXXR#X, means absoutely nothing. It certaily not a sign that 2D games are popular (in a mainstream way) and profitable in the U.S.
This is semi true, several OLD ass PC games are still going strong. But PC games have the ability to mod/adapt/change with time.
Most end up with a highly modified “pro” item for tournaments, and a slew of other custom content. And if you get bored of it people can add on content, this is a HUGE advantage.
Now that consoles have hard drives this could start to change, but it’s up in the air.
correct me if i’m wrong, isn’t that more on the part of sony? i remember reading an interview on 1up the director of the castlevania series saying that he was interested in making an anniversary game but that sony would probably shoot down the idea. that and sony hates 2-d
Back in the PS1 era sony said “no 2d” and they had to sneak in castlevania as part of a bulk deal because sony didn’t want to lose konami.
After they released DoS for the DS the head guy for Castlevania over at konami commented that they wouldn’t make 2d CV’s for consoles because the amount of cash it would take to make the next SoTN is massive and they wouldn’t get much back from it. Yet if they make the games for portables it’s cheaper to do and they will make a ton of cash.
2d is only profitable on hand helds, that was the jist of it.
Keep in mind he has other console options. Castlevania started on the NES and is still going strong in handhelds. Sony needs konami more then konami needs sony. I’m sure they could do what they did with SoTN (ie we make a ton of games that make your system sell, so publish it or we yank them) even more so now as konami has metal gear which sony needs.
I don’t get it, how a 2d game could be more expensive than a fully 3d game. doesn’t everyone says that 2d is old technology, it’s that hard to make a 2d game.
At best SNKP will make NGBC2, SS7 (although I hear Tenka might have been a farewell project), Garou 2 (If we are only so lucky and they don’t fuck it up) and most assuredly another KOF. Also Metal Slug, can’t forget Metal Slug.
And compared to any other company making fighting or any sort of games in general, sequels to franchise games ARE expected. Hell not long after CFJ/CFE people were expecting a sequel because Capcom usually released three games in a series before calling it quits.
Also a 2D game could be more expensive because you would have to hire artists and programmers capable of working with sprites. You could possibily do a lot with 2D, but most people expect and are probably more willing to back a 3D game.
I agree with you except I don’t think SF needs to be dumbed down to the level of DOA gameplay wise, it just needs simplified. SF2 was easy to pick up and play for casual players because you had 8 characters, 6 regular attack buttons, and “Special moves”. On the surface it seems simple - of course there is much depth there, but it is easy to pick up and play and is not intimidating. But for the casual players todays 2d fighters are wayy too complex - parries, supers, specials, grooves, etc. - Capcom should IMO take it back to VERY simple , I’m talking even removing Supers. It should play like SF2 but in 3d. It probably wouldn’t be a mega hit, but it could AT the VERY LEASt, could survive like Virtua Fighter and Tekken or MK survive today. And that is better than nothing.
And of course it gotta be 3d. It gotta be w/ the times.
Personally, though, I’m still hoping for a 2d SFIV done by Arc Systems and in high res 2d.
It’s weird … 2D is expensive. There are several reasons;
To understand this point take the subject of a 2D fighting game;
Supply and demand. There’s just no demand for 2D anymore, so of course in the off chance that someone requests talent to begin work on a 2D project, it’s going to be more expensive. It’s like those rare games selling on ebay for hundreds of dollars. Back in the day when 2D was at its prime (not for very long however) there was a slew of 2D talent and artists and it was of course less expensive. Ever notice how new 2D projects on handhelds today are considerably crappier looking than 2D games of past? Look closely at the style/animation/color choice*.
Creating a 2D fighting game means renting out a studio house, which is compiled of many many artists all lined up at desks scribbling away at drawings. I can already imagine you realize how expensive this is. We’re talking about basically making an animated movie (why do you think Disney totally blows ass when it comes to animation today in comparison to their earlier works? They skimp out on artists/amount of frames/use computers). In comparison to a 3D game where once a character/environment is completed, they’re ready to go, and you get considerable rising costs. You’d obviously lose more this way than churn a profit since as the market currently dictates, 2D fighters don’t sell.
*I should note there is an exception to this; whoever SNK are using, they need to LATCH onto them and keep them for life. These are some seriously talented 2D sprite artists/animators. I expect this talent to be ones who have be around since the KoF 94 days and have only learned more and more as the years went on … to the point of almost perfecting their craft.
I would love to play a Final Fight where Haggar is the Commander in Chief. Instead of taking vacations on a ranch, vacations would be spent on the most dangerous hotspots of the world. The Final Fight series was made to take on corrupt organizations like the Mad Gear gang with international ties or the globe trotting antics of Final Fight 2. I would like to rant more but I don’t want to steal ideas from Capcom USA.
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As for Capcom not doing any more new Street Fighter games, be ready for the PS3 launch because from the Sony party dancefloor in E3 2004 (this is durring my PSXNation days), I asked a Capcom on what fighting games he liked and mentioned Mortal Kombat Deception. I thought he was nuts but I mentioned that I would love to play a 3d ‘Vampire’ game that included the gore that he liked in Mortal Kombat. He said that ‘he promises me a 3d Vampire with blood and stuff’.
I dunno what happened to him , I need to get his name soon, but I wouldn’t be that suprised if there would be a 3d like Capcom fighter that uses the Darkstalker’s license. I guess it is a reason why Capcom dumped SF to the US branch, to gather thier 3d fighting Playstation energies on a potentially WICKED Darkstalker’s game. Imagine the love child of Project Justice and Vampire Savior with a slash of Samurai Showdown V Special Unfixed Violence while looking like Resident Evil 4 running 60fps. Expect Dante being a playable character and it would sell like Halo 2.
Imagine a game where you do epic Darkstalkers combat but during the end of the match, you pull a Jedah like opponent finishing animation where the enemy is totally decimated after performing a certain move. Like the fatalities of Samurai Showdown and those combos of Killer Instict II.
Mark my words, to counter a 3d fighter on the PS3 launch, Microsoft would tread back to Killer Instict teritory. (I know I am talking out of my ass here).
And the poor current generation console owners would have to deal with another rehash of Mortal Kombat.
By the end of March, you will know that Capcom will be back for the number 1 spot.
i’m still not sure what tigerboi was going on about. from what i understood, he’s saying that the attempts to ‘revolutionize SF’ haven’t changed it from what it essentially is. SF3:3S changed things in a big way but kept things similar enough so people could tell it was SF. isn’t that the whole point? if Capcom wanted to make a different game, they already have.
that’s like saying every other company only exists because we have every other company’s full set of releases in our libraries. and besides, fighters made Capcom money through the arcades more than and long before anything else. you’ve used this argument before and i regret seeing i hadn’t persuaded you of otherwise the last time.
