I agree about the population sentiment. This place is simply ‘too big’ to manage the way it has been. Theres more people in any given major city than there were in all 13 original colonies when this nation was formed. Things have to change and I think that change will come soon in the form of some massive internal conflict or other means. Thats what I’m talking about.
I also am in with Highlulu in his reasoning but Im typing this on my phone so I’ll edit later
Damn bro, you have not been paying attention.
Really? More people in any city than the original thirteen colonies? So should just start culling people in the street to get to that population level?
What are you tryin g to say?
Really? More people in any city than the original thirteen colonies? So should just start culling people in the street to get to that population level?
What are you tryin g to say?
I made the original statement he was agreeing with, so I’ll explain. The major reason I’d say democracy doesn’t work/works shittily (pick whichever) is because there are so many people at this point that no form of representative, centralized government can truly claim to represent them. Government becomes a matter of which special interest group accumulates the most wealth, then picking from a handful of people who couldn’t give a shit about you, who are supposed to represent you, and who are completely beholden to those groups. The people who invest themselves in the voting process often do so under a cloud of ignorance and/or propaganda, and those who don’t either never cared or have understandably become disenfranchised. You have a population of millions, an organization that makes major decisions about the direction of their lives, and a massive wall between them.
That’s not to say that we should start executing people until we’re down to a more governable size, but that there may be no feasible solution. At least, not one that’s been thought of.
So america can handle shit like having the greatest military on earth, healthcare for the military and hawaii, virtually every other social service, but health care (something that virtually EVERY OTHER FIRST WORLD NATION CAN HANDLE) is beyond them???
People without kids still pay taxes that go towards schools…should they just not pay them anymore?
Referendums are a feasible solution and they’re used in many places. When it came time for the Irish to consider joining the EU, they had a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty and rejected it.
Back when the town hall protests were going full-steam, a guy even suggested to Arlen Spector to have a referendum on the health care bill.
Specter said that it was a fascinating idea and that was one of the ideas he would take back to Washington. You see how much that materialized.
Not to sound weird (or pro-canada over america), but a moose in the crotch sounds like the better deal…unless we’re talking a farmer’s daughter, and she’s doing interesting things to herself with the pitchfork handle while between your legs…
i’m sorry but referendums are fucking stupid. the country is way too big and the issues way too specific for that shit to work. i would strongly consider moving to canada even though their system sucks hard with representatives being elected for life and all. but seriously, i’m glad that people who don’t read and rely on glenn beck and keith olbermann for their news aren’t allowed a direct voice in the gov’t.
personally i think we should just get rid the senate and stick with the house…or at least reverse the power structure so that the house becomes the superior body.
i’m sorry but referendums are fucking stupid. the country is way too big and the issues way too specific for that shit to work. i would strongly consider moving to canada even though their system sucks hard with representatives being elected for life and all if we switched to popular vote for legislative issues. but seriously, i’m glad that people who don’t read and rely on glenn beck and keith olbermann for their news aren’t allowed a direct voice in the gov’t.
personally i think we should just get rid the senate and stick with the house…or at least reverse the power structure so that the house becomes the superior body.
People who say that there is no comparison between healthcare insurance and car insurance are delusional. You WILL need healthcare insurance one day and as it is currently, you cannot just wait to get sick and then go get it. Just doesn’t work that way, nor is it fair to the insurer. The thing is, even if you simply want to save and just pay out of pocket for every medical expense you acquire, there is a very good chance that you will have some major medical necessity sometime in your life that you will not be able (and probably not very willing) to simply foot the bill for by yourself.
I agree with this for obvious reasons. People already don’t trust their representatives to get anything done with consistency and intelligence, and now all of a sudden we expect Joe Blow next door to be able to put his direct input into a health care bill while he is fucking his sister? No thanks on that, partner.
I disagree with this for obvious reasons. Texas, California, and New York would run the whole United States, which is the exact problem the founding fathers foresaw at the time of the Constitution.
imo.
in the house, reps don’t usually vote as a block based on their state so i disagree that the big states would dominate the small ones.as an example, a cattle/dairy farming district in upstate ny probably has more common ground with another cattle/dairy farming district in wyoming than he does with those big time city slickers in nyc.
Spare us the “I’m sorry but” and just say you think they’re stupid. You really didn’t say why they’re an objectively a bad idea aside from stating your opinion emotionally.
The US is a large country which deals with many specific policy issues. Therefore, referendums are bad…? Conclusion doesn’t follow from the premise.
If referendums are unfeasible because of the size of the country’s demographic and the specificity of the policy issues, then these pieces of (historic, sweeping) legislation which are churned out by 535 people in DC are just as fucking stupid.
Why stop there? Carry that logic further. The US is also a huge economy. If the country is way too big in terms of GDP and the like, and with an infinite number of specifics in the market, then centrally planning the economy with the Fed setting interest rates and reserve requirements should be an equally fucking stupid idea to you.
The Fed’s board of governors get together to decide the interest rates of the largest economy in the world. A handful of people centrally planning the economy is cool, but people having a say on policy issue via referendums is fucking stupid? If the country is too big and complex for a large group of people to have a say in things, then isn’t the opposite true in the case of a few people? I guess it depends on if you’re a technocrat or not.
CONSPIRACY THEOREST1111111111
No but anyway, I completely agree with what you’re saying. Democracy in most western nations is fast becoming a farce. The US and UK merely at the top of the pile. I could probably write dissertations on the mater if I spent enough time to, but suffice to say it’s enough to state that the system itself has effectively been subverted. In layman’s terms the system functions for the benefit of the few and their narrow minded agendas. The defining case in point would be the Lobby Group System in the US, set up as a means for citizens to gain access to their politicians and positions of power, especially for large reaching issues. Today it stands as a pinnacle of how special interests can dominate a whole country. If you have the money you can effectively “BUY” the attention of the politicians and get their notice. Without money the access to positions of power is cut off, and the barrier costs are extremely high, with million dollar payments and donations being the order of the day. It’s why oil/gas and arms companies dominate with their agendas, why wars are the order of day and have been post-WW2. Add in all manner of foreign nations, zionist groups, insurance, banking, pharmaceuticals etc, and you’ve got one corrupt system, simply because the interests of business rarely overlaps with the interests of the masses.
who’s to say there isn’t something better than democracy? You hate using the Romans for an example, but, there it is.
I agree.
it’s not about being stupid, it’s logistically not very reasonable to expect a normal person to work, raise their kids, and do whatever the fuck else they do…AND be knowledgeable about hundreds of random legislative issues that come up every year. politics would boil down to (even more than they already are) what side can make better commercials to convince people that aren’t really interested in the first place.
congressmen and reps have staffs whose sole purpose it is to keep them abreast and up to date on issues and know what the fuck is actually going on. also looking back on history, pretty much no corrective legislation (read: civil rights) would ever get passed on legislations (see: prop 8).
that’s analogy doesn’t even begin to make sense, considering the actual economy doesn’t work similarly to political discourse, but i’m sure you thought you had a point.
yeah i’d rather have people that actually know and understand the field be in charge than those that don’t, go figure.
This is the real world. As far as I see it, every nation experiences it’s share of ups and downs. If you think times are bad now, look back to the great depression. That sucked, but things not only reverted back to their original state, but they got better.
The debate here isn’t “Are you comfortable with America is headed?” It’s more like “I don’t like the way the government is spending my money.” or “Conservatives are all a bunch of ignorant dolts.” or even better, “Canada: America’s Hat.”
Obviously alot of you feel pretty strongly about your opinions. Pursue a career in government, March on Washington, or something. As for the indifferent ones, just wait it out. As I said already, these things tend to come in ups and downs. America is at times awesome, and at times it sucks. Too many people look forward to the awesome times and neglect to wait through the parts that suck.
I’m a republican, I voted for Obama. I do not fear healthcare reform, but I fear the transition from the old system to the new. I think some people are going to fall through the cracks as the healthcare system changes, and that would be a great tragedy. The reform itself still seems to be good for the average citizen. Yes, there are special cases, but show me any system where there are no special cases.
All I know is, if you want a socialized system to operate correctly, everyone has to work at it. So my fellow republicans, this reform is inevitable. You can drag your heels all you want. The way I see it, if you do that, you’re contributing more to the problems than you are the solutions. No one needs that.
“And so my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country” - John F. Kennedy
You assume that there’d be a referendum on every single issue when that need not be the case. In Ireland they’re limited to constitutional amendments.
A well-informed citizenry is a requirement of a successful democracy. “Oh but the people are just so busy and everything is so complex! Let’s leave this hard thinking stuff to someone else!”
…a simp’s gospel if I ever heard one.
Looking back on history? Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
You talk about Senators and Reps as if they’re some sort of legislative geniuses who’ve never created a fiscally insolvent program after saying it would pay for itself. Authoritarian, technocratic nonsense.
The idea that 535 people plus helpers are running things perfectly with their approval ratings is laughable. But no, much better to leave things to our betters in DC.
Is the analogy nonsensical or are you simply incapable of understanding it?
Right. Because they’ve done such an exemplary and flawless job up until now?