So fornicating disapointing capcom has become

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
501

unless the developers are also the businessmen behind Capcom, i think we can find certain areas where to place the blame for this Lollocaust of a decision.
just think about it, what’s faster and more convenient, original stages and a whole new (original) character, or rehashed ideas stamped as “for the fans” via media and advertisement. Who is most likely to do this??

I know some of you nerds out there, you’ll share your wet nerd fantasies for days; are these the same people who view a game mainly as a deadline and a payday?

jst mah IMO

502

i would have loved to see a character like oro or birdie, but since they going for headswaps and existing models we still could have been far better of with urien and alex

new zealand cruises

503

Capcom is apparently really sorry about Decapre.

504

Simply put, there is no headswap character more deserving than Haggar.

He has appeared in so many SF games. He is the star of Final Fight series (only character to appear in every final fight game.) and frankly I’m tired of hearing how “he’s just a clone of zangief.” Bitch plz, Gief is the clone. Haggar was throwing out leaping pile drivers and spinning lariats on fools 2 years before Zangief existed!

I’m still REALLY disappointed that Capcom didn’t add SOME form of a Final Fight hero type character in USF4 (Haggar, Jessica, Lucia, Carlos, Dean, Maki) given how much the final fight villains are part of USF4 (Hugo, Poison, Rolento + adding Mad Gear Hideout stage) it would have been a perfect scenario. Lucia or Maki would have been great rivals to Poison. As would Haggar for Hugo or Rolento.

505

Would they have been able to make Haggar different enough though?

506

Actually, with all the Final Fight characters being added, I’m glad it wasn’t another FF character.

Without the stuff that makes him work in Marvel, Haggar is basically Zangief with a few extra moves and a pipe… that is if he has the pipe, considering that they need to find similar animations from the existing cast (since animation data from UMvC3 is most likely difficult to translate to SFIV). Yes, he has some extra moves that 'Gief doesn’t have, but if he’s made to work like how traditional grapplers work in SFIV, he is basically Zangief. Worst case, he make 'Gief redundant that anyone playing traditional grapplers moves to Haggar.

507

Yeah like…would he have Zangiefs normals and specials. Take out green hand and do some sort of projectile invuln pipe? Pipe would probably be a focus attack actually. Maybe make running bear grab his up throw and let them land into lariat? I guess you could change the normals too and only share lariat and spd between the two.

508

It’s 8am atm and I haven’t slept but when I get back later I’ll show you just how different Haggar COULD have been even with reusing a lot of existing animations.

509

Yes, yes, let Eternal shine light on things, and inform the people.

510

Excited to see. I’ve been wondering it myself for a while. I assumed it was the only reason we didn’t get him.

511

But would he play differently from a traditional SF grappler? Assuming he has the same moves as in Marvel, basically Violent Ax would be his replacement for green hand. Flying Piledriver would be his main big grapple. Lariat is lariat. The only interesting differentiations would be Hoodlum launcher, throwing his opponent into the air, somewhat like Gouken’s own throw and his aerial command throws. Basically he’d still play like Zangief with aerial command throws. In other words, a better 'Gief, but then why play 'Gief then if that’s the case.

The only other option would be to make him a faster character like Abel, but that doesn’t seem to fit Haggar.

512

Just say “fucking” in the title instead of making it politically correct next time, OP.
Wimp.

513

Mod changed it. It did say fucking at first.

514

Somebody needs to read.

515

How I would have done Haggar in SF4 would have made him very different from Zangief but still have some obvious parallels between the two.

Oki doki. Let’s start with normals:

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/cbfXb4x.jpg

crLP. Pretty straight forward probably could pull it from someone can’t think of one off the top of my head.

http://i.imgur.com/J9Oe2rH.png

crLK also straight forward. Very similar to Zangief could just reuse his

http://i.imgur.com/7ZKnsJG.jpg

crouching HP. Would be an anti air normal similar to shoto’s crHPs could use Dan’s it’s extremely similar in animation.

http://i.imgur.com/iJYiaHB.jpg

Far LP, nothing particularly note worthy could pull it from someone can’t think of one off the top of my head.

http://i.imgur.com/EQ7MYc9.jpg

Command normal performed with F+LP. It’s a very far reaching jab. Would be ~6F startup and could be special canceled

http://i.imgur.com/ksRbWC9.jpg

close/far MP. Would be special cancelable and have good reach. Not as far as F+LP though but would also do 60 damage. Could re-use Guy’s far MP animation.

http://i.imgur.com/fHTu3xd.jpg

Close HP, could re-use zangief’s close HP but flipped so that animation back to screen essentially (Since Zangief does the chop in the opposite direction, front to back.)

http://i.imgur.com/RFa2BtN.jpg

F+MP command normal. Could reuse Hakan’s F+MP. Would be just a forward moving normal for pressuring.

http://i.imgur.com/VauDRYB.jpg

sLK would be an anti air normal. Could probably use Thawk’s far LK and just flip which leg goes up and change the hands.

http://i.imgur.com/7aijq4N.jpg

sMK would be a low avoiding poke similar to THawk’s far MK could probably use THawk’s far MK and just change the hands

http://i.imgur.com/yVkpMtD.jpg

Far HP would be an overhead like Hugo’s sHP is. What is unique though is this would case a hard knockdown like a sweep does. ~15F-17F startup damage ~90-100. Unsafe on block and very easily focused.

http://i.imgur.com/iQ6zP8o.jpg

D+MK in mid air would cause a short hop similar to Deejay’s.

http://i.imgur.com/10WEqCE.jpg

Body splash, performed just like Zangiefs and pretty much identical to Zangief’s

http://i.imgur.com/YPJGe8q.jpg

Elbow Drop performed with F+HP on the ground would be an overhead leap attack that could reuse C. Viper’s overhead animation or Cody’s FJ HP or so many other examples lol. It’d function very similar to Viper’s overhead though slower speed and more damage.

Ok, normals are out of the way so now we can get to more interesting stuff: SPECIALS!

Spoiler

Starting with his most iconic move the spinning lariat (that Zangief was inspired to copy!)

http://i.imgur.com/JkfsiOn.jpg

The lariat would be similar and yet different than Zangief’s. First off he would only have ONE version of Lariat. It would be about the speed of Zangief’s quick lariat in terms of total frame count. Lariat itself would have a fairly quick startup ~4-5F just like Gief’s 4F lariat. However beyond that things are different. Haggar’s lariat would be unable to move at all (unlike Giefs). Haggar’s lariat however would be fully invincible on startup and most of the active frames (~18F invincibility or so). However lariat would cause Haggar to lose ~50-70 health each time it’s used. Regardless if it hits or not. In addition, rather than launching the opponent upwards like Zangief’s lariat, haggars would throw the opponent more horizontal meaning it wouldn’t give as good of positioning for Haggar. Damage would be ~160 on first part then drop to 130 later (reverse of Zangief’s which gets more damage on later frames.) it would also break armor.

http://i.imgur.com/eIKLCTr.jpg

Violent Ax would be a launcher type move that throws the opponent into the air on hit allowing haggar to combo into his sky-high back drop.
EX Version would do an additional swing before launching them. Causing more damage and corner carry.

http://i.imgur.com/u6K9xis.jpg

His sky-high backdrop (AKA Izuna drop). This could also be used separately in a similar fashion as Hugo’s back breaker though not as far reaching.
EX Version would have invincibility. This move would also function similar to Rose’s soul throw in that when the opponent is in a juggle state it becomes a strike attack, otherwise it is a throw.

http://i.imgur.com/cDz1yxl.jpg

Running arm bar. Haggar would run forward a short distance before performing a clothsline. If the move hits then it knocks the opponent down and Haggar immediately corpse hops during the stopping of the clothes line this switching sides. It would be an armor breaker. It’d be kind of like Balrog’s dash punches in that the startup is variable based on the distance of the opponent. However it wouldn’t be particularly fast traveling. Though it would require a back charge (sort of like Abel’s shoulder tackle in SFxT) this would also be partially upper body invincible to strikes.
EX Version would have a hit of armor

http://i.imgur.com/sefSCen.jpg

Alternately Haggar could use kicks instead of punches and do the same running animation but instead of doing a clothesline he does a drop kick once he gets in range. This would not break armor and it would be considered airborne + lower body strike invincible.
EX Version would have a hit of armor

http://i.imgur.com/2FuiNK6.png

Haggar pauses for a brief moment then does a quick lunge forward. If he hits you then he goes into a choke hold state this would be a strike attack NOT a throw (Think of: Ibuki’s Raida):
EX Version would have a hit of armor. Could probably use Abel’s super for the lunge.

http://i.imgur.com/jot5U7g.jpg

While in this state Haggar is able to walk around for a very short time and has several options.

  1. Every couple of steps Haggar will attempt a headbutt (up to 3x max).

http://i.imgur.com/TMUy847.jpg

This would actually require you to press a punch button (any punch) at precisely the correct frame window to have the headbutt connect you screw up and the opponent gets out of the choke hold. (Think: Nina’s grab move in SFxT where she has do the button press at correct times.)
When the 3rd headbutt connects the opponent is knocked down in a quick risable knockdown state right nearby Haggar.
2. Haggar can hit Back+any kick and Haggar will do a suplex dropping the opponent right next to Haggar in an untechable knockdown as well as switching sides with Haggar (useful for putting opponent into the corner!)

http://i.imgur.com/C96rPl4.jpg

  1. Haggar can do Forward + Any Kick and haggar will perform a back breaker and throw the opponent off his shoulders ahead of himself a short distance.

http://i.imgur.com/ngW1LNh.jpg

Haggar can also perform his flying pile driver which would function similar to Zangief’s SPD though lower damage. However depending on the last input for the FPD Haggar will change his jump! Rather than always jumping straight up like Thawk/Gief he can actually choose to either do a jump forward / neutral / backwards by performing the 360 and ending the final input on either Up+Forward/UP/UP+Back. This gives him some additional corner carry potential though he still does a rebound leap like Gief/Hawk that leaves him fairly far from the opponent. However say your back is to the corner you can do the FPD backwards and you’ll end up right next to the opponent just like when Gief does his flying suplex. If you are close to the opponents corner you can push them into the corner by doing a UP+Forward final input.

His pipe would be used in his focus attack and one of his ultras. Perhaps he could also have his leaping pipe as an attack as well.

Haggar would play as more of a brawler + grappler just like he did in Final Fight and in Slam Masters. One thing to remember is that Haggar is in fact NOT as big as Zangief (Gief is 7ft while Haggar is 6’7). So Haggar would be a faster character.

516

Now explain all that using existing animations from other characters.

517

Did you try reading it first? Many of them I DID JUST THAT

Almost all of the normals I give an example.

For the specials:
Lariat - reuse Zangief’s
Flying Pile Driver - alter zangief’s to not spin
Running Drop Kick - El Fuerte has a drop kick just like that as well as a run
Running arm bar - Run from El, Arm bar based on Zangief’s focus.
Suplex - Zangief has a suplex as does several characters.
Back break throw - similar to one of Gief’s throws.
Choke hold - THawk forward throw or Hugo forward throw.

So that only leaves a couple of animations just like Decapre got just a couple.

Of the moves I’ve shown the only ones I can’t really think of a reusable animation are: D+MK leg drop, Violent Ax, Sky High Drop (Maybe Vega’s Izuna?), F+LP, and far HP.

Seriously dev, shitting all over someone elses post before even reading it is not a good look.

518

Except you didn’t mention some of that stuff, such as the one’s from Fuerte in your original writeup.

519

That sounds pretty fun actually. Especially with the command normals.

520

But I did mention about 1/2 of the normals and stuff. And you obviously didn’t read my post first since you had posted less than 3minutes after my post.