HD combo’s have quite a bit in common with Max Mode combo’s from 2002, it’s just that it’s more streamlined so nearly every character can loop moves together and even ToD, to the point where it’s very practical.
Well didn’t they say that the next KOF would be the much more accessible and be based on KOF 98? That was a long time ago, but it seems like sound reasoning for financial success along with quality netcode.
SNK never made a statement about it. That was a rumor.
Modern fighters have progressively moved towards big combos and combo conversions. Big damage off a simple 3-4 combo is no longer acceptable it seems. I personally feel fighters with big combos have a "homogenized"feel to them that just comes off boring and generic. It’s the reason I don’t get hyped for KI/Marvel matches…it all just looks the same after awhile.
Oh. Well that is unfortunate, it sounded enticing.
Wow so it really IS the worst Top 8 of all the evo games top 8 this year?? (even without the commentary) including the side tournaments…
i rather enjoyed it (not as much as the previous years though) but i can understand tier whoring distaste though but i can appreciate the aspect in GF where they’re trying to download each other… but again the only other top 8 i’ve seen is USF4 and the whole Fei’s and gief’s and rose’s was just too much “Xiaohai vs Tokido (in the context of how people who doesn’t like the evo 2014 gf think it;s a bad thing)” for me although it did have the advantage of different characters. we still saw clark, chin, duo lon, shen, saiki, takuma, king, yuri and daimon this year though
still IMO it wasn’t that different from last year’s AE 2012 evo GF when we got to Tokido vs Infiltration where they would trade air fireballs almost for the better part of that loser’s finals matchup
I haven’t played enough 2002 to know so thanks!
Besides the feel and look of them there are other negatives. It hurts the momentum of the game, for example look at the links of ST and Vampire Savior in my sig. The game is always moving at a brisk pace, both players are always completely involved. In long combo games, one player sits for a long while watching as the other player plays a mini rhythm game. Not only that… in many long combo games, isolated hits generally do very little damage meaning that the predominant purpose of the game is to land long combos thereby making other aspects of the game virtually irrelevant.
I really don’t feel like KOFXIII is one of those games. The neutral game is very important, despite (and not because of, like many of said type of game) the game being somewhat combo-heavy (in comparison). Imo they struck a really good balance.
Did you play previous KOF games? KOFXIII really marginalizes neutral game compared to previous entries and made grounded normals worse, have worse collision boxes, worse hurtboxes, slower in general, shorter ranges coupled with wider screens, and less damage. Jump-ins and jumping around is much encouraged and converting usually means doing much more damage with drive or HD. There is also lack of push-back on block for the attacker on jump-in, unlike previous KOF games, so characters could lock down better with really good jump-ins such as Takuma/Karate with j.CD. With how collision boxes work, even jump-in curve around supposedly good anti-air normals that activate in 3-4 frames just because of collision box interaction. Then projectiles are very terrible in this game as they do little chip and build more meter for the opponent that more worth than the chip itself. Then the hitboxes don’t reflect the projectile’s animation and almost any character can hop willy nilly over projectiles in this game barring a few exceptions. Some character’s projectiles are intended to be hopped over like grounded Venom Strike or Mai’s fans or stuff like Terry’s Power Wave or Iori’s Yami Barai. Then you have atrocities such as characters hopping easily over Joe’s Hurricane Upper, Mature’s projectile, Saiki’s projectile, Athena’s Psychoball, Kensou’s fireball, and many more offenders.
The game’s top tiers pretty much mean your character could meter manage really well and convert using minimal resources, and have a good neutral game. By good neutral game, I mean they have a good DP/reversal so they could actually check jump-ins and hop-ins.
The game could have made individual hits and meterless combos much stronger to emphasize fundamentals and added a different proration system to cut back on the damage that Drive and HD do. Also, they should have learned their lessons on how to make hitboxes from 98 not from 02, and then they proceeded to make the normals worse by making them slower start up and worse collision boxes. XIII is the kind of game that lessens the skill gap by making a deemphasis on neutral game.
Whether you like this game’s overall package is up to you and fine with me, but one has to acknowledge that XIII is the game that did marginalize its own neutral game while trying to be a more accessible version of 2002. Frankly, this is a boring and tedious game to me and it doesn’t really help new players get good at the core fundamentals that make KOF, or any fighting game, really good, fun, and gratifying.
It just irks me when people say that this year’s KOFXIII Grand Finals was the worst yet and commentary was bad. Maybe, it’s because the game in itself is wack and there’s really nothing to get hype for in this game. If the commentators get hype, most probably it would be fake, forced type of hype that I guess people buy into now-a-days.
I just hope that KOFXIV is able to become a better game and the SNKP devs learn more from their lessons. XIII Climax/Console was certainly leaps and bounds better than the original XIII Arcade, and with one more serious patch/overhaul it could have been a game that could stand the test of time. Going from 98um to 98umFE and 02 to 02um, SNKP shown they do have devs in there that could make good decisions. It’s just who okayed those shitty hurtboxes and collision boxes and said that curving around anti-airs are fine? Who? The prospect that there are people on the team like that makes me uncomfortable and dampen my confidence in the next title.
King can’t slide under certain fireballs anymore the way she used to. 
XIII boils down to “get meter, make contact, HD combo,” definitely not the Kof of the NeoGeo days. Spend 30 minutes with 98 and XIII and the difference between the two will become obvious.
It also removes what makes fighters interesting in the first place; the chess like element that makes fighting a test of wits and intellect, trading it for long, flashy, and novelty-driven combos that grows boring after seeing it for the 5th time (if that).
I agree mostly with the 98 comparison, i for one would have preffered stronger normals so that the footsie game could be more than a hyper hope fest, though on the other hand i disagree about pushbacks, since jump ins in KOF 13 have a 11 frame hit (the universal hitstun frame rate for weak attacks) stun whether it hits or is blocked so at least for me that sole aspect compensates for the lack of “pushbacks” (at least for jump-ins)
I’m curious since i’m not as tech savvy on the 98 and 02 comparisons, can you emphasize on this more since indeed i always felt that the 02 normals have a different vibe to it (for lack of a better term)
although this is the part that kinda gets to me (though not much), it irks you to know that people consider KOF XIII Top 8 in Evo as the worst Top 8 of that event (a notion you seemingly have no dispute with) for the wrong reasons (It’s supposed to be ‘it sucks because it sucks’ not ‘because of commentary or top tier whoring’), you may be right, maybe not, i know i have certainly watched better but regardless of it not really helping new players to get good at the core fundamentals that make KOF, or any fighting game, really good, fun, and gratifying, it’s still a fighting game that people have poured time, effort, busted their asses, to get better at, agree or not the players are finding tech and stratagem in this KOF that not all are fond of (i don’t like Marvel or anime games either but it’s not really for me to say it’s a game that attracts people who have wrong conception of how true fundamentals work in fighting games, i’m not saying you’re saying that but it seems to me that it’s almost what you are implying) again i completely agree with almost everything you said about the 98 comparison, how i wish my normals would be better and i would not like KOF degenerated into a meta game of hyper hops and the rock paper scissors involved with them, but this is just me… feel free to disagree… i still feel good about the few and dedicated players of KOF 13 that tries to keep the scene alive, it’s just that in my ears there’s nothing that works better in Burying a FG scene than it’s own fanbase flat out saying it sucks (for whatever reason, just or not), i have absolutely no doubt that the true 98 veterans will Squash most of the 13 peeps (except maybe Bala and Xiaohai) at high level, but i also feel that although as KOF fans we may not support the current product (because we have lives, too old to play etc.), we maybe still should wish the best for it, i mean i’m sure not all 3rd strike and Super Turbo players love the SF4 series with the same level, but at least for the SF lifespan to continue, newer product has to be produced. or maybe we can just be content to let the franchise die out and we just either go on with our lives/or play 98 or 2002 for eternity it’s a free world anyway. Again not trying to change your opinion, you’re definetely entitled to it i just have to voice out my comments on those, again refute it to your heart’s content, i’m all ears for civil discussions and differences in POVs.
Yup those hurtboxes are absolutely retarded, most of them are less than a finger’s reach from the hitbox itself so what’s the point of a footsie or a standing AA if it’s designed to trade.
Or just add the damn combo breakers.
Or just take out the damn HD combos and up the damage on everything else.
I like the idea of Drive Cancels, should they keep them?
My man, mad respect. Kensou is arguably my fav FG character and I would be ECSTATIC if he was the main character(even Saiki noted his potencial importance). Alas, chances are they will go with a new character. Besides, SNK does not take it’s story particularly seriously so we would just be cockteased without real resolution. After all its been over 20 years and Kensou has yet to grow the balls to give Athena the D.
I can live without HD combos but i’m for the drive cancelling concept to stay., just make it so it costs 1 or at least a half super bar
EX Moves would be welcome back as well for me.
i personally wouldn’t mind a removal of hd and return to strikers. striker games were the deepest and 2k specifically did it the best. the neutral game had crazy amounts of layers to it and sure you can touch of death with them, but it was balanced with your neutral being gimped for the rest of the match if you do.
KOF XIV must be like KOF XI. I want Dream Cancels again, KGO, Tizoc and tag gameplay.
If anything, the Chinese hero would probably be Shen if I had to guess.
Tall, cocky, brash, strong? Perfect KOF hero material. Heck, I even remember SNK saying somewhere that Shen looks like a saga hero.
Is that right? Very interesting if true. But Shen’s current personality and story is basically punch now, fuck the questions. He has no other motivation than to fight. Sure, you would argue Kyo and maybe K’ were like that but Shen took it to the maximum extreme. Again, SNK does not take it’s story as a priority(other than the dead staying dead except in dream matches, I guess?) so the most I can see them doing is have Shen be dragged around by Duo and Elizabeth.