You got your head buried this far in the sand? I want all the characters for matchup purposes. It’ll be pretty difficult to learn X character when I don’t have access to them. I’m not a training mode fiend but if some crazy shit goes down in a match or idea pops into my head I would like to test it out and how far I can take it.
Unlocking will be a pain in the ass no matter what. It means I can’t just jump into the game with characters I might initially want to play as. I’m forced to play parts of the game I don’t want to get to the content I do want. That’s the basis for unlocking important features like characters being shit.
Or… You can learn match-ups by playing the game xD Learning all the match-ups is going to take much time, anyway. And the four rotating characters of the week can help you on that, however.
Magegg you’ve already stated you are not a tournament player and don’t care about tournament play. You should then concede that you don’t understand the thought process of a tournament player and what helps you level up your game for competitive play. This is basically where all of the arguments are coming from in this thread, tournament players are telling you their gripes with tournament play in mind and you’re telling them that your casual experience is fine and should be fine for someone else too, when it isn’t.
Why do you think XDZW died in the west? Why do you think the sizable group of people who were playing it just quit? Because the people who were interested in the game enough to get into it were mostly tournament players who saw potential for another competitive game, and when that game did not facilitate competitive play and made it impossible to reasonably enjoy the game, they all stopped. It wasn’t just a matter of “The online isn’t good enough,” XIII’s online was garbage and still isn’t very good, but people still play it because offline competitive play can still happen, there is a means to enjoy the game. XDZW doesn’t have that.
I don’t get everything from simply playing matches. There are times when I need to play the opposing character to have first hand experience on what their capable of to get a better understanding on what I can do against them. I won’t be simple to manufacture situations I need to develop counter strategies. You know how much practice I had to put in to competently fight Hawkgirl in Injustice with characters that can’t do shit in the air?
I never will now upon learning about all this crap.
Bad netcode, lack of keys and lack of contacts, mainly. The more people playing the game, it’s easier to get into; if there are no keys, you have little people playing and when they go away, that’s it, it’s over.
When a game has not even been released outside of Asia, it’s always hard to see Western people playing this competitively.
But you’re also seeing this as a kind of magic, you seem to assume once you have the whole roster and supers unlocked you’re going to be a master in the game with and against every character you pick, it’s kind of a ridiculous thought, yeah, you can solve better situations when you have the whole thing to experiment, but it’s still going to take time and matches, during the ones you can be unlocking shit and that, so who cares. It’s not like you buy the game one day before a tournament. Mastering a character takes time, unlocking every content of the game takes time too, but you can do both things at the same time, so I don’t see a problem on this unless there’s a tournament a week away or something.
I guys you all know about tournament scenes and that, but I also think you’re exaggerating a little much. The final fate of the game -if there’s going to be a “tournament” edition (offline, arcade or retail) and packs to get the content you want quicker- might be the actual thing making people consider getting in this game, if I get it. But I still disagree if you think you’re impeded in any way to play the game competitively only because of that.
You just ducked WHY people went away. If the game was good and facilitated competitive play, there’s absolutely no reason why 6 people couldn’t play the game forever. People still play 98 and ST and those games do not have the biggest number of players.
The reason WHY they went away is because the game does not allow for competitive play. Online is not competitive. Online is a tool, it is a means to get matches with other people and gather data in a more practical sense, but because of delay online will never be competitive. No one ever hosts serious high dollar cash prize online tournaments for fighting games. All of the important majors are offline. XDZW is impossible to play offline. It didn’t NEED a Western release if people could actually play it competitively, but that is impossible for anyone besides Tencent, so the game died. Tournament players are exactly the kind of people who will play a game forever and keep it alive if the game is worth keeping alive. XDZW is not worth keeping alive anymore.
This is exactly why I told you to stop talking about this shit, because you have no idea what you’re talking about. Yeah, mastering a character takes time. You know what takes MORE time? Grinding to unlock characters and THEN having to master them, and no, you’re not doing both at the same time. Let’s assume I’m having a hard time fighting Panda. I’d like to go to training mode and figure out how Panda works, but I don’t own him. Oh well, I’ll just wait for him to go free so I can try him. 2 weeks later he still isn’t free, so I decide to get the in game cash to unlock him. This takes 3 days because luckily there was a weekend even that gave me the 10k to unlock him permanently. NOW after all this time I can finally go to training mode and figure out how he works. In any other game I could have just went to training mode day 1. Am I worried about a tournament next week? No, but what the fuck does that matter, that is fucking frustrating. I don’t want to have to WAIT to be able to learn a matchup, I want to be able to learn a matchup for the game I played so I can get better at it. That’s the whole point of competitive play, getting better. The more time you put in between someone getting better the more frustrating the game is and the less people want to play it.
It’s never too early because at this stage, it’s an imperative that they should have, already have heard from too many people. If the Metal Slug 3 title on Steam is any indication, using rollback savestate netcode, SNKP is aware that netcode is important (at least known by the Western developer division that I think is stationed somewhere in Australia or something like that.)
Then this and Magegg kinda reminded me that there are people out there than wanted more commercials like the Chinese/Taiwanese hospital commercial where a young boy that tried to steal was given some soup and some medicine for his ailing mother by a small restaurant owner, and years later the boy ended up being a doctor that paid all of the debt that would have incurred for the ailing small restaurant owner and his now grown, beautiful daughter. There’s also that one Chipotle commercial with the scarecrow trying to start a natural farm/restaurant that is antagonized by the industrial farm and food production complex, the commercial rife with propaganda and no logical arguments. People liked these kinds of commercials and wanted more of their kind.
It’s really sad that people want to be emotionally manipulated and subconsciously exploited.
Now this is where we can pick apart your mental faculties, or lack thereof. “But you’re also seeing this as a kind of magic, you seem to assume once you have the whole roster and super unlocked you’re going to be the master in the game…” He did not make this claim, at all. Hawkingbird said, “I don’t get everything from simply playing matches.” The rest of Hawking’s paragraph lists the inadequacies of just that. I hate to be the nerd that uses elementary Eng 103 or Spcom 104 terminology, but you set up a Straw Man fallacy, in that you set up a claim to argue against in which Hawkingbird didn’t make in the first place. Although you do acknowledge the need for all the characters to test in training mode, you’re creating this false dichotomy fallacy that it’s between strictly training mode or strictly playing real games for match ups that no one is making. A tournament player would make use of both to the best of one’s ability. Both are of great value, it’s not either-or.
I’m seriously doubting your reading comprehension and the ability to reason.
In regards to standard fighting games, unlocking characters usually entails beating Arcade mode so and so times. That is a waste of time for a tournament player and a tournament organizer. Unlocking supers and playing incomplete characters until you have your complete character that is considered tournament standard and unlocking them entails playing single player modes, is a waste of time. Having to play certain amounts of Versus matches when you don’t have a local scene so you manually have to do it yourself, is a waste of time and tedious. All these “casual” things you want are just for mindless grind and shallow gratification, just as shallow as the gratification you get in terrible, manipulative F2P, or also called “Foot-in-the-door schemes.”
I don’t even know what “casual” means within the context of this conversation. It’s just a huge glittering generality, glittering generality being a “vague word or phrase used to evoke positive feelings rather than to convey information.”
For me the word casual is being “relaxed and unconcerned.” As a noun, it’s “a person who does something irregularly.” At this point of my life, I’m a casual at fighting games and I play casually. I’m not a professional, “engaged in a specified activity as one’s main paid occupation rather than as a pastime.” Certainly I don’t play fighting games as regularly as sponsored or professional players would. Even then, as a casual, demand a single, one-time, clear-cut price with all the functions that I want for immediate competitive play and training. If I don’t have these things, the game to me is of undesirable design. So far, Under Night In-birth has satisfied my wishes. There’s a reason why I stopped playing Blazblue past CT, there’s a reason why I don’t like the fiasco behind the whole MVC3 issue with DLC characters, there’s a reason why I don’t agree with the 1800 Yen Team in KOFXIII. But yes, I play these games wanting to get better at a relaxed state of mind and with unconcern. I am unconcerned with my tournament placings and I’m gratified by my pragmatic improvement at the game and steady implementation of tactics and the successes of them.
I’m a casual. I have no idea what Magegg is supposed to be.
Also Magegg is acting like you only level up a character for the EXDM, but for someone who has played the game as much as he has I’m honestly shocked he’s managed to forget all the stat boosts and upgrades you get along the way to unlocking the EXDM. That is why I said “They basically said play this shit version of your character until you earn the right to play the real version,” the real version being the one with the maxed out damage/stun values AND the completed moveset.
For what I’ve seen, most people complain about the netcode. There’s a lot of people that come to my pages asking “if the netcode is still ass”, and once they find it’s not fixed yet, they go away. There’s very little Western people playing the game, and Chinese are not exactly someone you can talk with, so matches are hard to make.
If you’re implying community is waning because people can’t play offline, well, no. That’d be the opposite, actually. Online FORCES community to exist.
Nothing has stopped the Chinese from organizing and preparing for tournaments, man. The fact you have to unlock a super has not preventing their online community to exist and organize tournaments. They have tournaments, competitive scene, and they’re not complaining about Hidden Supers or having to unlock characters ‘because of the match-ups’.
According to you, the reason why Western people is not playing is because there are no Western tournaments? I would say au contraire, how could people on America organize a XDZW tournament when there’s only a couple dozen Western people with accounts to play? People’s not playing, IN FIRST TERM, because there are no keys; and the ones with no keys, because there’s not enough Western people in the scene, and they can’t play against Chinese either because the netcode is ass.
One, training with Panda is not the only way you have to learn how to beat him; you can learn how to deal with Panda players by fighting them; it’s simply true. You’re just assuming you’re a “scientist” or something, and you FORCEFULLY have to learn by theory instead of practically fighting the guy and figure out how to counter it; IMO, that’s only a sign you are not as good as a player.
Second, the game is not titled “Beat the Panda”. It’s not like you can’t do anything else in the game if you haven’t beat Panda, dude. My suspects about you being just an obsessed and impatient guy are being confirmed. The fact YOU are frustrated doesn’t mean everyone’s as short-tempered as you.
Third, you could eventually get the Panda if you’re not that impatient. Or just buy it (because the option will eventually be included) if you’re that impatient you can’t unlock the things by yourself.
Seriously, I have never NEVER seen, before you, a Chinese or a Western guy complaining because you have to unlock contents of the game; you’re probably the most impatient people I’ve seen so far.
And about the Hidden Supers, “ohh…! I can’t play this crappy version of the character because it lacks ONE move! It doesn’t matter if I can use the other moves, that would teach me nothing about the character! This imperfect version of the character is not worth for me! I wouldn’t play the game unless the characters are complete…!”… Someone talked about you being a little obsessive??
Seriously? SERIOUSLY?! Dude, please… I agree that can be a legitimate nitpick, but it’s SO snobbish passing on the game simply because there’s a move you can (no one even forces you) unlock…
In the end, everything’s because of the netcode. How important would be having everything in the game, from the characters to the hidden supers, while you simply can’t play a single match without a terrible online delay that doesn’t let you do anything? THAT’s the reason people is not playing.
Here’s something @Magegg will never understand. Imagine going to a tournament and then losing because the setup you used didn’t have your moves? Imagine your character suddenly being less viable due to missing out thier moves.
Worst case, imagine not being able to play at all due to not having your character available.
Heck we already had enough of that shit with vanilla SFIV tournaments where certain setups didn’t have the console only characters. And then we have the horror stories of people spending 3 hours just flicking the coin switch on an MvC2 cab just to unlock all characters for a tournament.
Yes, the tournaments organized by the developer of the game that has access to every dev tool we don’t that doesn’t have to unlock a god damn thing themselves and only has to deal with one setup anyways has everything unlocked. Real shocker there. Once again proving you know nothing about how the tournament scene is ran and organized and what are legitimate problems to tournaments and TO’s.
That still leaves out the small, grassroots TOs. Unless of course they’re going to give out unlock codes for every person who lends their console to a grassroots community organizer. At that point, might as well make everything unlocked for everyone (i.e. Skullgirls where characters locked for singleplayer are unlocked in versus by default, or DOA5U where there’s an option to unlock everyone/everything via the tournament mode option).
You forget that the competitive community is largely built on and centered around the grassroots. This isn’t like other genres where competition is organizer by the developers/publishers. We will play and compete in any game we find worth competing whether or not the IP owners like it.
Yeah, for those who thrive for tournaments, maybe there’s a chance for a “tournament edition” of the game or something. I would say an arcade edition of the game could be a good idea. In the end, what we’ve been playing is a Beta version; things might be different in the final cut of the game.
Even if that’s so, I wouldn’t have any problem with that xD If you do, that’s your problem, I’ll keep onenjoying the game and I hope KOF turns into a free to play perpetual Beta then, xDD