Snake Eyez Takes It!

Classic Fighting Games SSF2T: HD Remix
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It seems that Snake Eyes win is a testament to two things…

  1. The netcode is pretty spot on in this game, as this is pretty much the first fighter where probably 98% of what you learn online can be applied offline. Get a decent ping and this game is probably the closest out there to playing offline that any console game has to offer, which is great since now you don’t have to be tied to a specific region/group of players to get better.

  2. If Sirlin’s original intention was to have Ryu be the middle ground in which all other characters nerfs/buffs were to be based on, as he has stated in his HDR blog, then this game is complete fail. Seems a lot more people are starting to realize/admit/whatever that Gief is absolutely not low tier in this game, and HDR Gief is not comparable to ST Gief. The consensus appears to be that Gief has anywhere from a decent advantage to absolutely destroys Ryu in HDR, and not the “evenness” in relation to Ryu being the middle ground that Sirlin was originally trying to shoot for. Either way, HDR and ST are both flawed games, and HDR ended up not being just a “fixed” version of ST, which makes them pretty un-comparable in the end, so just pick your preference and move on

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I believe the goal of HDR was to compress the tiers so the characters at the bottom have a fighting chance, and according to the consensus tier chart, that was achieved. I do think Gief’s improvements help Gief in the Ryu matchup a little more, but I don’t think it’s a blowout. I think people are forgetting that DGV knocked Snake Eyez into losers.

303

Sorry, taking a quick glance at the Ryu section of the blog, it doesn’t say word for word that Ryu was the middle ground, but it does say “This character is balanced already”. If he’s balanced already, the outcome should be everything vs. Ryu is even, not some characters still destroy Ryu, and now even more bend him over and rape him with a jar of sandy Vaseline. Consensus seems that everyone is in agreement that Gief was already good, it was pretty damn even in ST, and now with the buffs it’s in Gief’s favor. Tipping the “balance” scale heavily to one side because of some other weak character match ups is not a good thing, as it breaks what already worked just fine originally.

Again, either way, play whichever game floats your boat.

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Where are you getting these info? Gief was low tier in ST & he’s still low tier in HDR…Its just that his mismatches are now not so lopsided…IMO gief doesn’t have a clear advantage over any matchups…

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I’m pretty sure Diago has been quoted saying the Ryu-Gief matchup is “impossible” at the highest level.

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^^^ From what I heard, Daigo has stated Gief (ST) at a high level of play, is a tough matchup for Ryu. But I still believe this matchup is arguably a fair match.

@Rcaido Gief in ST is not low tier, he is actually bottom tier.
In HDR at best, IMO he is low tier.

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But then again, Ryu in ST is roughly the best balanced, all around fighter, and in HDR he gets a fake FB, making him unneccessarily better.

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yeah i meant low tier as in 2nd crappiest character if not the worse character…

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Oh No! Ryu might actually have one bad match-up! Boo-Hoo, come back later when you have a bad match-up against everyone with a fireball, LOL.

Seriously, though, doesn’t Ryu also have it tough against Sim, Vega, and Sagat? I’m guessing the Sagat match-up is now even or in Ryu’s favor (no O.'Gat), but how about Vega and Sim? The fake FB was put in mainly to help counter Sim’s Drills, and Vega got nerfs, so both those should be better. Is it really a big deal if 'Gief is a little harder now?

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I’ve been thinking playing other games and what not and I honestly don’t know why I was being stupid trying to argue about HDR vs ST. I feel bad about it now that I see the light. Compared to all the lame fighters or games in general I should consider it fantastic for either HDR or ST to be the game of choice. Whether one is slightly better than the other or not it doesn’t matter because they are both good. Now SSF4 that game just makes me cringe and I wonder why Daigo plays it so much when I feel he likes SF2 better. I guess for the money and fame?

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DGV got like three perfects on Snake Eyes, and knocked Snake Eyes into losers.
He also went full count on him too.

It was by no means a blow out.

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mad possum… Does Ryu have it tough against Sim, Vega, and Sagat? Sure, but at least these are nowhere near the uphill battle that Gief poses. The changes to Gief are so drastic, which I assume were to make him more viable in other matches (Guile comes to mind), that when you revert back to who was supposedly the “balanced” character in the game, Ryu (game designers words, not mine, but I happen to agree Ryu makes a great overall middle ground) Gief in semi-competent hands just completely destroys, as there are just so many different options to keep track of at one time.

That whole thing about rather fighting ST O. Sagat and Claw that pop up in this thread that everyone finds humorous, well I’ll be the one person to go ahead and say that I definitely would rather be playing those matches any day, because at least I’d have a fighting chance! Playing against Gief as Ryu in HDR is borderline “put the controller down and just walk away because it’s pointless” mode. But then again, all of this brings us back to comparing HDR to ST, and at this point, it’s pretty clear that they are two completely different games not worth even mentioning in the same sentence, as they’ve proven not to be comparable at all.

I am kinda curious tho, if going by Sirlin’s philosophy of “beat me with it or it isn’t broken”, would some major Gief tweaks be in order? According to his blog, Snake Eyes completely destroyed him along with who knows how many others. I wouldn’t be surprised if the initial response was something like “No, there’s not a single move Gief has that is broken”. Problem is, it’s not just one thing that makes him whacked out, it’s a combination of all the changes that practically put him in the ridiculous zone. If you want to compare Sim, Sagat, and Claw to this, each of those characters realistically has 3-4 things you have to worry about in a match… Sim has limb, fireball, drill. Sagat has fireball games(high/low), knee, uppercut. Vega has crouching strong and wall dive crossups. All of these match ups also have a decent footsie game that can be played back and forth. Gief, in Sirlin’s words, has options “A through F, and more”… all this after going through what he thought were the options against his own changes that he put into the game.

Anyway, there’s a whole thread now to discuss this subject, so it’s probably better brought over there than clogging up what was supposed to be a simple congratulatory thread to begin with…

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I think you don’t really know what you are talking about. Saying you have a fighting chance vs. O. Sagat, but not HDR Zangief is laughable at best. You should probably see my two posts in the other thread to understand why what you are saying is highly exaggerated. Maybe you should watch some of DGV’s matches vs. Snake Eyez to see how the MU really is, because it certainly isn’t the blowout you are claiming it to be.

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So what if Gief is now a much better character?

Also, why is being good with Gief in HDR not amazing yet Afro gets props for his ST Rog. Another char that people say is too easy. (no disrespect to Afro).

I don’t get why your tone is so overly negative compared to on the podcast and a while before your podcast on the forums. Even in those videos DSP uploaded you could be heard defending HDR a bit.

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Salt from losing. Trying to blame the game rather than him not knowing certain things.

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good shit on winning evo

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I’ll just leave this here.

GPPO convo. ppl asking how snake won evo.

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I knew he was a cheat, anyone w/ 12 fingers should be banned from tournaments…Maybe damdai son can avenge his father, just like Inigo Montoya…

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I feel ST Ryu is kind of a central character in terms of what he is supposed to face in a tournament. Coincidence or not, he has advantages against low tiers - Gief, and disadvantages against high tier characters. He’s kind of a better Honda in the sense he does not have such strongly advantages or disadvantages against most characters, but he does have some weird match-ups. I do feel I often get wins I should not against, say, Cammy and Honda, and lose a few matches to not really talented Dhalsims or Claws. He also has an edge against popular characters such as Guile, Chun and Ken.

BTW, if you pick him with forward, he looks really good!

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snake eyes be training under a waterfall all day doing spd’s and hes also from another world