"Smash Faces, Get Money." The Balrog/Boxer Matchup Thread

[Shikuru]

Similar to Karin’s matchup thread, I want to compile all pointers in this discussion into this post. And maybe the next one as well…

MATCHUPS

Ryu:

Spoiler

There’s no gimmicks involved. Balrog has naturally always had an edge over Ryu and similar shoto’s.

The MU ends up being all about the neutral, neither can jump because Ryu has DP and Boxer has st.mp and cr.hp.

Ryu has to inch forward to make dash punch spacing harder for Rog. He has to pre-emptively stick out limbs (like low forward buffer tatsu) to beat dash punches. He has to watch fireballs because of TAP, super, and even more-so in SFV because of V-skill

When you look at their previous MU’s in different games you’ll find that it often ends up looking the same despite each character having new tools.

Chun-li:

Spoiler

st.mk whiff punishes her main poke (st.hp) into dash low is my go-to so I stay in there for pressure. st.hp is decent but can get stuffed almost for free by her b.hp. cr.mk to beat st.rh but it’s pretty hard. The neutral isn’t impossible, def winnable and Balrog gets way more off the meterless whiff punish confirms.

Just to add, Balrog actually has a pretty decent keep away game from Chun, she can’t take too much white life cause 900 health and she can’t fireball because v-skill p. And dash straight is always annoying when you have to approach Rog. Just careful when she has super or meter.

Charlie Nash:

M. Bison/Dictator:

Spoiler

Bison seems best when you turtle waiting for a chance to steal a turn and aiming to jump at him from angles where his cr.hp will lose to j.hk

Pretty much this. Bison’s normal are all positive on block except his sweep I think. Trying to counter poke will just get you frame trapped. Just let him push you out of range than try to catch him on your approach. Also his scissor kicks are all negative on block (except his EX one is +1) so wait for him to throw that out and then lay on your pressure. He is a charge character too so dash throws or Dash Punches with an empty Vskill cancel to throw can work real good. His fastest normal is 4 frames so use your lk target combo in reset situations and you should beat anything he tries unless he just blocks.

Cammy:

Birdie:

Ken:

Necalli:

Spoiler

I actually feel both characters wanna whiff punish each other more than they want to be poking at each other. Balrog wins that war until Necalli is in v-trigger IMO.

Use poke tools (cr.mk, st.hp) to check walk forwards and bait attempted whiff punishes from Necalli (like his st.mk, st.rh, cr.mp, cr.mk, st.hp)

Then whiff punish with cr.mp or st.mk buffered into dash punches.

Also know your punishes through some of Necalli’s offense, like v-skill through blockstrings that end in stomp since it’s considered a projectile.

Good Necalli’s will use divekick to throw off your anti-airs, be alert so you don’t get stuffed.

Also don’t press buttons after a close quarters seismo by Necalli, you’ll only end up taking a CC rh, better to step back and reset neutral after blocking, or v-reversal to guarantee a KD and pressure.

All I can think of atm about this MU.

Vega/Claw:

R. Mika:

Rashid:

Karin:

Zangief:

Spoiler

They can both body each other but I feel it’s whoever wins the neutral. Gief has the tools to counter Rog but he takes a risk in doing so (v-skill = white life and st.hp loses to lows) Rog has the safer approach with well spaced dash straights or the occasional ex dash straight/low which are safe on block.

Laura:

Spoiler

Get a good life lead in the neutral and wall up. Don’t go in unnecessarily, one missed meaty where Laura can sneak in her st.mk into VT can literally end you. Her ex fb is incredibly good as it is too slow to V-skill through especially when Laura is walking forward with it active. Laura has very easy meaties off all her KD’s but they usually can be v-reversal’d for a guaranteed hit.

Basically.

1. You win the neutral, st.hp, cr.mp are good pokes. St.mk/cr.hk is a really good whiff punish normal. J.mk is also a good jump in against her.

2. Pressure Laura without meter and vtrigger as she doesn’t get much. Usually if you’re beating Laura in neutral they resort to throwing a ex fb midscreen. Which is good, because it’s not being used as a mix-up tool.

3. her lp elbow is -2 on block, remember to take your turn after that. Get started with a jab.

It’s still a hard match up because Laura is capable of playing solid without having to go ham. So read the type of player and adjust. Balrog really rules the neutral here though, so make it last as long as possible.

Dhalsim:

F.A.N.G:

[Shikuru]

MATCHUPS (Continued)

Alex:

Guile:

Ibuki:

Balrog/Boxer:

Juri:

Urien:

[Unlimited_1]

Would it possibly be better organized to have individual threads for each match up like they do in most of the other chars’ forums? Some posters have a hard time keeping their posts updated and its kinda deterring to have to waddle through walls of text on 20 different matchups for just info on one of them…

[Plaid_Unicorn]

I got some thoughts on Laura and ibuki, but have no idea how to go about posting it.

[Janitor_Ned]

This one is probably obvious but if Guile or Birdie attempts a V-Skill while you have CA ready, they gone.

[BrokenPSX]

Here is a pointer for you. Don’t fight Zangief.

[J-Mouse]

Thread needs to be done with spoilers. Impossible to find info otherwise.

[FIERCEtotheFEINT]

Do any of you have tips against necalli? I can’t seem to do much in this match up. His normals are really oppressive

[ZAYMAX]

I actually feel both characters wanna whiff punish each other more than they want to be poking at each other. Balrog wins that war until Necalli is in v-trigger IMO.

Use poke tools (cr.mk, st.hp) to check walk forwards and bait attempted whiff punishes from Necalli (like his st.mk, st.rh, cr.mp, cr.mk, st.hp)

Then whiff punish with cr.mp or st.mk buffered into dash punches.

Also know your punishes through some of Necalli’s offense, like v-skill through blockstrings that end in stomp since it’s considered a projectile.

Good Necalli’s will use divekick to throw off your anti-airs, be alert so you don’t get stuffed.

Also don’t press buttons after a close quarters seismo by Necalli, you’ll only end up taking a CC rh, better to step back and reset neutral after blocking, or v-reversal to guarantee a KD and pressure.

All I can think of atm about this MU.

[Foil]

just played the gief matchup

what the actual fuck

[chadouken]

The best tactic for Gief is to spam 3K + 3P the entire match.

[ZAYMAX]

PrRog says its 5-5 after playing an extensive set with Stupendous. Your thoughts?

I agree with the 5-5

I imagine white life and damage trade offs between Rog’s normals vs Gief’s cr.jab are factors.

And also both being able to wreck each other on KD.

[BrokenPSX]

PrRog says its 5-5 after playing an extensive set with Stupendous. Your thoughts?

I agree with the 5-5

I imagine white life and damage trade offs between Rog’s normals vs Gief’s cr.jab are factors.

And also both being able to wreck each other on KD.

I played several matches with a Zangief player last night and did better than expected. I used a lot of empty jump ins and threw him when he flexed. Dash Punch empty V skill cancel throws to punish flex and EX Dash Lows to catch forward walks worked real well too. Zangiefs has no reversal so knock him down and apply walk-up pressure.

[ZAYMAX]

I agree, although on Gief’s end he could just st.fp to negate dash punches or dash punch empty vskill on reaction rather than flex (which Balrog can just sweep/dash low for counterhit) Either way, for every thing Gief does Balrog can counter with a specific action. Vice versa, which is what a 5-5 sounds like.

IMO the one thing that is truly annoying is just the crouch jab. It’s so good!

[Foil]

It didn’t strike me as a 5-5 at all. This guy wasn’t that good, so I was able to frustrate his jab spam and eventually convince him not to flex, but I was still struggling to get anywhere. He’s the only character I’ve had major difficulty dealing with in the neutral, none of the typical characters like Chun or Karin can keep me out easily but Gief seemingly can.

[ZAYMAX]

But you can do the same, you don’t have to be the aggressor it’s just as hard for Gief to get in IMO. Not like he has a free in on Rog.

They can both body each other but I feel it’s whoever wins the neutral. Gief has the tools to counter Rog but he takes a risk in doing so (v-skill = white life and st.hp loses to lows) Rog has the safer approach with well spaced dash straights or the occasional ex dash straight/low which are safe on block.

But personally (and specifically) where are you having problems in the neutral?

[Foil]

The worst thing (other than flex of course) was stHP at mid-range. He would mix that in with knees and lows to make it really hard to approach. And just generally he can punish a lot harder with reads than I can unless I spend bar.

[Shikuru]

Updated Thread to have info on Necalli and Zangief.

Thanks guys. Any and all info is welcome.

[Bill]

No opinions on matchups vs the top tier I.e. Ryu, Nash, Chun, Ken, Necalli, and Karin?

[Foil]

I think Balrog has a small advantage against Ken, 6-4 might be a bit much, but definitely better than 5-5. Both characters like to get in close and land lights into target combo or bully with CC threat, but Rog has better buttons for this. V-skill P destroys the shoto fireball game in the neutral, and you can whiff punish stHK easily with L/EX Straight or EX Low. Main difficulties are just the fact that Ken has a really good reversal and does boatloads of damage.