I also think everyone’s team needs to have some legit answer to prevent them from getting zoned out. I see a lot of teams online that are set up to be good at rushing down and have a tricky mixup with their assist but have no answer to zoning.
Parasoul’s egret charge assist > Zoning
There’s my counter.
Egret Charge and Cerebooty are probably the best anti-zoning tools. Item Drop H could work but it’s not as good as those two.
I would say the main difference there is Sent drones can get blown up by full screen supers, long ranged beams/beam assists and other long ranged tools that hit Sentinel’s body. If Sentinel’s body gets touched by anything the drones go away so although it’s really good it has its issues. Akuma assist technically has some type of invincibilty. That being to projectiles. Not to mention unlike the assists in Skullgirls…if the point character gets hit Akuma is still coming out to clear shit up.
I haven’t really seen on stream or had too much of my own pillar assist get blown up unless it was like a big mistake situation. Especially with Val/Napalm Pillar winning the first thing you could call a major for the game, Napalm has got a long road ahead as a strong assist. In this game if your point character gets hit before the assist is active, your assist goes straight into vulnerable recovery frames and you will most likely get your point character hit on or take a bday situation. That’s part of why projectile assists are so strong in MVC3 because you can get smacked in the face but that beam assist is still coming out unless you hit the assist also. Which can save you in situations that a projectile assist would not in other games.
With that said…as long as you don’t get hit before napalm pillar is active you should be good to go. I’ve had napalm pillar stuff out every assist including booty assist and i’ve stuffed out plenty of invincible special and super attempts with it also. Once it gets out there you can’t really fuck with it outside of calling an invincible assist of your own or making a strong enough call of your assist so that it releases during the recovery frames. As long as your point character can move around you can cover the recovery frames of the assist pretty well. It basically comes down to whoever gets their assist active first. There’s a spot you can call napalm pillar in the mid range where if booty assist is called you’ll hit it after the invincibility goes away.
I feel at least those assists are pretty even now in what they do and how they fight each other. Especially with characters like Painwheel who’s standing animation can duck under the booty assist, armor charges can negate the hits (and you can cancel into flight during the charge) and forward fly at the top of the screen glides over it. When the invincibility goes away that will make things even easier for me any way.
Mike Z’s already said he feels Peacock+Booty Assist is bit overrated any way.
Finally comfortable enough with Painwheel to drop Filia completely. Maybe I’ll pick her up again if I want to make a team of 3 but I don’t think she’s all that great in a team of 2
I’m running Painwheel (c.MP)/Fortune (HK Fibre Uppercut)
Logically, flight antics + air control assist should be a strong combination, though Fortune’s DP assist isn’t the best, it hits multiple times for easy confirms. Painwheel converts off air-to-airs quite easily in comparison to the rest of the cast so she gets a lot out of a successful assist hit. Painwheel’s assists, at a glance, suck so I just went to the one with the most lockdown. Come back here to find out almost everyone has done the same. DHC synergy is decent but limited thanks to them both having 2 air-only blockbusters
Yeah I honestly feel Painwheel and Parasoul are the two most well rounded characters in the game. Even solo they do alright but pretty much any issues they have are covered with a strong neutral assist. Painwheel can just do everything while not really have to respect much. Rush, zone (charged bolga stinger is great for zone especially with an assist), runaway etc. she can just do it all. Hatred guard charge for her normals allows her to not have to respect point character and assist options that most other characters are forced too. Then hatred install just makes her better than she already is. I’m glad she doesn’t have napalm pillar/booty worthy assists because she’s just a truck on point.
Parasoul…I feel people still need to optimize her rushdown a bit but her ability to control the screen is pretty unmatched outside of maybe Peacock. Great normals and general ability to affect all areas of the screen and comes with some of the game’s best assists.
Other characters are strong in their specific areas, but those 2 specifically can get it done especially with a good assist almost anywhere on screen.
I think Painwheel really benefits from a projectile assist … the lag on her bolga stinger is a bit much.
There’s only like 2 or 3 real characters in game at most and unless you’re one of those people you basically get to chuck bolga at people without too much issue especially with assist coverage.
For the other characters you’ll have to grind your way in a bit more but it’s better still not bad if you get time to get it in.
You also don’t have to do the full charge. Like Zero in Marvel you can just do the half charge that shoots out 3 bullets and recovers quickly to shoot more. If you have room to charge all the way to get 5 bolgas then fine but the 3 bolga charge is good enough most of the time.
Front page info now updated with general info on assists (mainly focused on the invincible ones).
I know there’s been a lot of general talk about the invincible assists and how good/scrubby/OP they are. We’ve even talked about it a lot in the last couple pages of THIS VERY THREAD. I think people that come from a Marvel 2 background would have much more of an understanding and tolerance for them. People coming from other games tend to have mixed opinions on it some going towards not liking having to respect them.
Either way I still feel like there’s a lot of mixed opinions about assists such as Napalm Pillar and the infamous Hornet Bomber (Cerebella cloned Double booty assist).
I posted my general feelings and strats concerning them on the front page. For the most part though I feel that since you can hit the point character before they become active and make them go away and the fact that they have lengthy recovery on block/whiff makes them fair enough. The only thing you really have defensively other than what your point character does/doesn’t offer is pushblock and alpha counters and both of those have their own issues for efficiently getting you out of bad situations. In a game where you’re just not going to be able to see every mix up and pressure situation, invincible assists are important to have. It keeps people honest and forces more of a spacing game than outright two people rushing into each other all the time.
In Vanilla Marvel 3 they had 2 invincible assists (Haggar/Tron) though they were poorly implemented since they also made your rushdown way too good and made it too easy to defend. Mainly due to how assists still release even if the point character is hit before the assist active frames. Which means you could basically block with your face and your assist will still save you. Not to mention Tron specifically had almost no recovery on block.
Instead of nerfing them to where they would be strong but fair like in Skullgirls (more MVC2 like) they instead just nerf both into the ground instead (typical Capcom work). Of course part of that would force them to change how all the assists work so they don’t become active if point characters are hit first. Which surely they didn’t want to change the very basic assist mechanics of the game just for 2 assists like they probably should have.
Man, Mike Z even did a little tirade on people whining about the assist, could you not put it in the title of the thread please?
If you could link that would be cool. I saw it somewhere a while back.
I can only guess people don’t have experience or developed the mindset for a game where you have bait assist, read opponents and the like are going through the growing pains.
That will mean something as soon as the “solution” to Peacock/Double is put on Youtube for all to see.
I followed his advice and killed my first Double Assist player and the only reason it worked was because the player’s main was Ms. Fortune, not Peacock.
There were definitely some Peacock/Double teams at the Civil War regional tourney I was at and I don’t think any of them got within top 8. Which means if it is that good it at least takes a pretty skilled player to get it to a level where it’s really THAT big of a deal. If there is a solution it seems people at that tournament already got a pretty good idea of what to do.
Like most lame out style pressure or teams in fighting games I see it being a phase at best. It will most likely always stay strong because it has a lot of options, but all animu/vs. style games tend to lead towards some type of more rush oriented strategy taking the most control of the game.
I never really have that much of a problem with Double assist outside of Peacock any way and I have just about the same problem if she’s using Napalm or Updo assist also. Peacock is just designed to be a strong space control character that forces you to work for your offense instead of just getting it by moving forward and swinging a few times.
In general people aren’t used to lame out being really strong in their fighting games. Luckily Peacock is pretty balanced in that her close ranged options aren’t quite as strong so I’m sure people will learn to maximize their options against her once they get in.
I see Marvel 3’s Morrigan + Missiles always being completely more of a problem than Peacock/Double especially because Morrigan’s offense is much better than Peacock’s and she can mirror image her fireballs.
Even if they did make a YouTube video for it…it’s not ever going to be as simple as the “Vanilla Sentinel” MVC3 video because unlike Sentinel…Peacock doesn’t suck and controls much more actual space.
What did, by the way was block Double, knock that meatsack into the air and wail on her as if she was the main, to the point the player was at risk of losing her. Suddenly he couldn’t fight.
Hey Deviljin, what are your thoughts on Filia/Valentine team? I just bought the game yesterday, and originally I was looking to play Valentine/Filia team. The only problem is, is that it feels like neither brings something unique to the table. Also, neither seems to have a very strong assist. I was looking to drop Filia in favor of Parasoul.
I play both characters, though that doesn’t make me an expert of course. As far as filia not havingw good assists… Naw she’s got great assists she has a good lockdown assist in hk hair ball, or she has a gtfo assist in updo. If it were me I would run Val first cause Val has some pretty shitty assists, and I’d run hk hair ball for the lockdown giving Val a better up close offense. Also filia has good on hit dhc synergy with Val and filia can continue to combo after her dhc hits.
As far as how good the team is, that remains to be seen but having Val backed up by a lockdown and a good dhc can’t be bad…
My team is painwheel,Val,filia so it’s just like yours except I have painwheel upfront and Val 2nd.
-dime
To add on, Valentine, Filia is pretty good though you may be underwhelmed with Filia in matchups where you’re forced to go in if Valentine dies. I think people still got some learning to do with Filia on point, but she definitely seems like a character that will have soem trouble controlling the screen on her own safely.
I would try like Dime said making a 3 person team with someone like Parasoul in the back of Filia and see how you like that.
the reason i dont like cerebooty is because it’s an everything assist. tremendous screen control, good off me assist, shit it can even function as a ghetto lockdown. at least w/ something like pillar it’s only a get off me assist. as for the original topic, no i like invincible assist. keeps things more honest on rushdown in a pretty rushdown heavy game.
Cerebooty is actually one of the best lockdown assists in the game simply because there aren’t many strong lockdown assists that have range to begin with.
I mean you have to figure with the ability to choose custom assists that a real power assist is going to come from it all.
Pillar can definitely be used for a lot more than just the get off me part. You only need one hit from an assist for characters like Painwheel or Valentine to lock you down for a while. Unlike booty assist, napalm pillar doesn’t really have any dead spots you can take advantage of or the point character always has to cover either. Booty has to be covered pretty well otherwise the opponent can easily take advantage of the dead spots and get around it quickly.