So uh is it even possible to keep a Double with meter away? That char can just do cattelite+car to get in from fullscreen and apply pressure for free.
not really, you cant really keep her out with the tools she has. luckily, the chip damage and meter gain on cat heads arent really really obscene, so its not game breaking.
basically just dont lose the match so hard to where youre in the position to get chipped out by cat heads.
Personally it’s because I would have to play Double. It’s worth giving up the assist so that I don’t make Peacock extra squishy and have a character in the back that I have no idea how to play and have no desire to learn how to play.
She’s not going to care about getting hit, she’s a tank. She’s got a Rolodex of moves to use to get in / use at certain distances to combat her.
Peacock is designed to annoy the shit out of you with projectiles, she’s more of a runaway character to me then she is a keep away character. She’s an annoyance with tools to confuse the shit out of you (by being unpredictable) then she is this giant insurmountable wall. This is why I think a good Cerebella counters Peacock. There are just certain things you can’t do against Cerebella that you can against the rest of the cast because she has tools to combat it.
That’s just my opinion on the matter.
While you do have a point that Peacock is designed around the “random” game plan to confuse the shit out of her opponents and cause them to guess wrong all the way into K.O. but she also has a multifire projectile which is pretty common with keepaway characters.
Whether or not Cerebella is a tank or grappler, her health is still the same as everyone else. Chip damage adds up and Peacock is going to care even less that you’re getting chipped to death since Cerebella is mitigating damage on her way to peacock.
In honesty, a good Cerebella would be well aware of the shit she has to go through in order to reach peacock and would say the same thing I’m telling you.
It’s hell for her.
I would hardly call it hell. Hell is Cable vs the entire mid to bottom tier in MvC2. Hell is Dhalism vs Guile in ST. Hell is A-are in CvsS2 vs anyone playing K groove. Peacock vs Cerebella is a mild annoyance for 'Bella. That multi hitting projectile hardly matters when 'Bella can flicker the first part projectile, reflect through the following ones and leave Pea in a full screen stagger.
If Bella is blocking that she can still flicker that if they delay it too. Hell you can flicker multiple ones (let’s say an item drop, slow bomb, and the first shot from her FP shots). Hell she can flicker either part of Argus Agony.
I think it’s just a matter of more people should try actually using Peacock before really describing her as one way or another. That seems to be the case with most space control characters any way. You gotta live in their shoes to understand kinda thing.
Man, I got my ass absolutely handed to me this weekend by a Peacock/Double. I thought I actually knew that matchup. Turns out I don’t know that matchup. >.>
Seems like Valentine at least had the best odds for getting in, though. Had no problems dealing with Double, it’s just that blasted tracking item drop. 
I think I should have just hung back and punished Hornet Bomber with pokes and safe strings, then moving in after Peacock once she was done.
Well my friend and I don’t entirely play full matches, we keep trying to figure out counters to each other to see how far down the line we can get. If I do this he can do this and I need to do this against him doing this blah blah blah.
Valentine has the best odds for getting in because her air dash goes right into that dead zone Peacock has trouble controlling that’s like a little bit over her head and around 15 degrees in front of that. Double jump also helps her get around Double assist and George at the Air Show. Air Knives also help punish alot when you’re in that spot.
i agree with this. also it could apply to any character.
i both agree and disagree about bella beating peacock… at lowerlevels i think peacock wins it for free, at midlevel bella probably wins it for free, and at high level i think it comes back to square one, which is peacock winning. but i definitely think its more about the players.
imho sanger would be a good player to ask as he has the best peadouble ive seen.
-dime
OK, so what exactly are your options when you block double assist, and are on the ground. with a low throw game going on, is there a guaranteed escape or counter if you know he is gonna go for a low or a throw, is it 50 50 no matter what? can I reversal? i don’t know and I’m lost in that situation.
It’s a typical Marvel situation. Don’t get caught in it to begin with or you gotta sit and wait. In most of the older fighting games there’s just times where you gotta sit and wait shit out. That’s pretty much playing Super Turbo Dictator in a nutshell. Unless you got a super ready you have to just try and sneak a throw in or wait for a chance to jump out or counter poke. It’s basically the worst situation to be in against Double assist and it’s basically your punishment for not having optimal spacing against the assist.
Basically if people played Super Turbo or 3S they would ask this question a lot less. When you lose your spacing you have to deal with powerful options that don’t favor you. Best choice is to hope you have a strong alpha counter to go into if don’t wanna take damage. Otherwise it’s basically guess right or take damage for guessing wrong. Outside of that, block, push block and jump out or tech throw then jump out are your best options other than that. Otherwise the double assist will keep recharging and you just keep getting put in a very long mix up until you get hit. That’s the pressure of games like Skullgirls/Marvel. You keep your spacing tight or deal with this shit.
It’s more about keeping your optimal spacing against Double assist. Jump in the air when you know it’s coming and push block it to get it off of you faster. Don’t be on the ground when you know it’s coming out. There’s no reason to be on the ground when Double assist releases unless you’re using Painwheel (she can just walk under it or armor through it like a bauss).
In general this is an old game so basically if you’re asking a question like this…you’re asking “what do I do after I mess up?” Well…don’t mess up. Watch Mike Z’s video and the Justin Wong vs. Pichy tourney video from Shadowloo Shodown to get some extra ideas also.
against my opponents and from what ive seen on vid… there are 2 basic things to watch out for when using bomber on offense versus grounded opponents:
- will my opponent duck making bomber hit only once? if you think they will then you can go for the low/throw mixup which they CAN reversal out of and is probably the primary option they have for beating the mixup in that situation. the thing about that is that they have to use meter to make it safe… or they have to use meter to get a reversal in the first place. its a guessing game that is in the offensive players favor as long as the opponent doesnt figure out to reversal, once they do, its still in the offensive players favor but not as much
- will my opponent block it high? if they do then bomber will push them back quite a ways away and fuck up your mixup if you thought they would have blocked it low since they wont be in the spot you thought they wuld be in… of course great reactions make this less of a guess… but the slower the reaction to the opponents blocking the weaker the mixup.
also on the flipside if the offender guesses high block and runs after bomber but the opponent low blocked intead… they probably get a free jab into bnb.
hornet bomber is at its best when used CAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR OPPONENTS DEFENSE WILL BE (within reason) and of course in the corner its completely stupid. it also shuts down midranged advancing attempts both via the ground and air… all you need to know is that your opponent will use “some sort of offensive attack” and you are golden. just dont expect it to gtfo when opponents are already in and using airbased offense as that is where it has a hole and where its at t weakest… though its still strong upclose you will need a read that “my opponent is going to try and attack me on the ground” and you wil also need to know the height of that attack since if they hit/throw/overhead you your bomber will dissipate.
one thing that is kinda painwheel specific though cause of painwheels outstanding jump throw priority/range is that bomber kinda forces up close air based opponents to attack in its hole which is a perfect place for PW to get an airthrow. and yes i land LOTS of airthrows as painwheel… its probably my best overall starter.
-dime
Look Bella has every tool she needs to deal with Peacock.
Peacock’s only real tool is being random. When was the last time you played a zoner that had to be random? Against a grappler where the match up should be heavily in her favor?
Also I’m not bringing double into this equation as she ruins the entire counter point, and even then I think Bella Double counters PeaDouble.
Solo characters are viable, but they have to have the following:
- A good reversal
- Air coverage from midscreen to up close
- A move that pushes a rushing opponent away (aside from relying on pushblocking)
- Safe strings
- The ability to do 7K with one meter or less in 1.00 ratio to every character regardless of weight or size
- Ways to get in
- Mixup/reset potential
- Good normals in the ground and in the air
And while you may think, “Al, this is true for every character, you’re nuts”, I state that the character MUST have all of these traits.
This means:
- Not Peacock, because other than item drop which has a cooldown time she has no way to control the space midscreen to up close in the air, so regardless of the teleport she will often find herself rushed down in solo. Airplane is easily avoidable by an IAD into a normal.
- Not Painwheel, because she has no way (aside from charging up normals which can be stuffed with throws) to stop, for example, rushdown by herself, so again she will be on the defensive against any rushdown.
- Not Double, because her two main ways of approach (other than a Hornet Bomber than can be jumped over) are j.HP (push blockable) and dashing in, both of which are predictable and avoidable.
In my opinion, Filia, Cerebella, Ms. Fortune, Parasoul and Valentine can be good solo characters.
Filia controls the air with her fast IAD, her DP is a good reversal (that can also be cancelled into the super to put you in neutral jump state in the air), Hair Balls can push the opponent away, has good normals in the ground and air, has safe air strings from her IAD to start her offense, great mixups and can deal out damage with her Ringlet Spike loop. Getting 7K with one meter may be difficult for her, but possible.
Cerebella has no issue dealing damage, and has ways to get in. Cerecopter/Titan Knuckle/Diamong Drop/Excellebella all push the opponent away with no need for pushblock, and they add to her reset and mixup game. She control the space midscreen with an instant j.HP. She has armored moves to get in and her j.HP slide. She can also make punishable strings completely safe by doing any command throws. If you keep the opponent honest, they’ll stop trying to punish your unsafe strings, choosing to pushblock instead.
Parasoul can zone, set traps to control the space, deal damage, has great normals and a variety of moves that control the space above her (Pillar), in front of her (Motorcycle), midscreen in the air (MP Shot) AND can make her strings safer with soldier cancel or MP Napalm Shot. Getting in is her only problem, but her dash moves pretty damn fast and she has the highest superjump in the game (if she kept it from beta). She has two overheads, one of which cancels into her chains, and both are cancellable by soldier into throw for a mixup.
Valentine can control the space above her with her back dash/IAD j.MP/j.HP/j.HK, all of which (except j.HK off an air dash unless comboed into blockbusters) can convert into a combo. Her crossups and throw mixups are pretty ridiculous, and even when damage scaling is an issue she can still bring the pain because her combos build enough meter to use in the end. Her s.HKx3 into cross is safe, and on hit knocks the opponent away without chance of recovery.
Fortune can control the space midscreen with headless dp+HP or dp+K, which can follow into a full combo. Her head keeps keepaway teams occupied while she uses dp+K, double jump and the second best IAD in the game to get in. Her blockstrings can be made safe by the head, which also allows her to do 7-8K with no meter (or 1 meter) under some circumstances (which are easily attainable). She has a few almost invisible resets that seem to happen much too quickly after a normal, and a level 3 that covers the whole screen vertically and diagonally in six directions to punish anything. She also has an invincible dp+LK which can convert into full combos and pretty insane mixups and corner pressure.
I’d rather have solo Painwheel than solo Valentine. How are you going to get into stuff like “need reversal options” and then list Valentine? She has the worst special moves in the game for the neutral and has to spend 2 meters to use something that qualifies as a reversal. Painwheel’s options for defense are clearly better. Especially since she can flight cancel her hatred guard charges. You don’t need to just sit there and take throws. Charging up j.HP, flight cancel, charge j.HP again is a lot better of a tool for getting in past hit boxes and assists than anything Valentine has. Valentine has great movement but it has to be covered by an assist to not get eaten up by other normals, projectiles and assists all day.
Valentine in the future will have to have an assist to really get going against optimized teams. All she is is just spray and pray with normals without an assist.
Everything else is alright though. I feel like Filia might be a character that people are still having trouble finding safe strings for without an assist but I’m sure she’ll work out somehow.
Major Surgery qualifies as a reversal, which is invincible in startup and pushes rushdown characters a full screen away. But meterless options with her are indeed lacking. I’m not saying that she will be a good solo character; just that she has the tools to be. Her lack in damage in teams makes her suddenly much more dangerous in solo as well. A single throw can convert into a lot of damage and possible resets.
Would she be better in a team? Well, yes. Her mixups would be a lot better and having a DHC would increase damage output. But the list isn’t about character who are best when solo (which would be only occupied by a lonely Ms. Fortune), but which characters are viable solo characters.
I believe every character is a viable solo.
It’s not a question of who can do what but rather how much knowledge of the game do you(the player) have.
You have 8 characters; you’re allowed up to teams of 3. The combinations are endless.
The most cut dry scenario would be Solobella vs Peacock… however, this is very unrealistic and should be treated as such. 
I hadn’t thought of it that way before, but I think that may be one reason why cere/double is potent even without high skill level. Since cerebella’s way to pursue when they stand and block has armor, she is not vulnerable to the jab out of blockstun, that means there’s a lot more time to decide what you’re going to follow up with.
It’s confusing when solo valentines do well. I feel like her movement being slippery is not quite enough to be considered a way in against an optimized team, especially with an anti-air assist, so she should be vulnerable to zoning.
Actually it’s 92 different teams if you go by raw team combinations or 400 if you include permutations.