A full combo in this game is basically going to be a combo that does significant damage then a low/throw/cross up into more damage or dead. That okizeme or general mix up off the restand is going to be very strong and the longer the combo you do the slower your meter builds and the faster the opponent’s meter builds. Combos that go on for too long without killing people will just build a ton of bar for the other team/character.
When it comes to hitting a character that has full heatlh…a really good combo should just be one that does a lot of damage and then sets up a mix up. That way you aren’t building them unnecessary amounts of meter and you can guarantee a kill without going into combo video ass shit. I would only spend meter on the second touch from a reset. That way you get an easy finish of the character if you had a strong enough first combo. Will be easier to do for 2 character teams than 3 character teams but yeah.
if i range my bomber right…then mash on weak attacks, i havent seen that to be true at all, in offline play. ive tried to do every type of mash that i know like straight up mashing super to timing super to doing a timed super motion then inputting PP x3… etc etc… nothing worked at all… unless hornet bo,ber is farther away than the first mashed cathead can hit.
now i also tested this WITHOUT mashing catheads and yeah its really easy to counter super… my only thoughts:
range bomber better and mash harder. generally speaking offline i only get like 1 or 2 of my bomber xx cats out of 10 super/reversal punished. and imho il take an 80% chance of broken shit to occur, anyday. perhaps its just me though and perhaps my opponents and i just suck that bad… anythings possible.
srry for dbl post, but to answer your questions and statements… yes i may just be salty about double cheese.
my teams are:
duo: painwheel/double (dacid bros team)
trio: painwheel/parasoul/double (i used to run pain/double/parasoul but double is much more self sufficient than parasoul and parasoul backed by hornet bomber is the cheese that dreams are made of.
in my trio team i use tear if not going up against hornet bomber, and pillar if i am… reason for pillar against bomber is so that i can ac into cars for a nice happy birthday. tear doesnt give me that option and bomber is bad if it wiffs against a crouching point character.
the duo team at this pint is stronger but i feel that with practice that my trio team wil take me the furthest of any team in this game… for me atleast. also it gives me a character that is useable for when bomber gets nerfed as i plan on prhaps dropping double when that happens… lets be real, im only using double cause of the supreme cheese, once that cheese is gone i will use bomber to see how much the invincibility nerf affects it and go from there.
@DJ
lol yeah i think im a one man island over here in these forums… its ok though, im used to it.
I played a much better than me painwheel double player well what I would consider a better player. I won 8 to 1.
The guy could tod my painwheelpretty reliably. There were some games where that happened. after that I still win. Cause me and him are still at equal options… I just have more meter…literally felt like the guy was work his ass off. And all i have are couple of resets and good combos.oh yeah… you can tod duo teams with tipple teams. Mine takes 4 meters. But its still an option espcially for painwheel teams. Tod still has its place agaispnst duo teams I feel. Cause 1 character in this game feels pretty helpless
The way I understood it is he is using a Triteam with Painwheel/X/Y, fought against a Painwheel/Double that did long combos and ToD his Painwheel and then with the gained meter+resets he ran the sets back.
now that i re-read it with that in mind, yeah it makes sense. though personally in the pain mirror i opt for pillar over bomber, unless the other pw has a bomber… then i have to have my own.
I dunno. I have really consistent success with both Cerebella 360 and Filia DP super interrupting before the heads can hit. Mind you, you have to input your super before the cattelites super flash i’m pretty sure.
now that makes sense, i didnt try that out, it would be like parrying supers in 3s where you have to input forward before the super flash… doesnt make any capcom game sense as technically you should still be in blockstun… but this isnt a capcom game, so… yeah makes sense. thanks for that tip, now i might be able to more effectively fight the cheese!!
sorry bout that last post, typed that on my phone. but yeah, Painwheel/Filia/Double versus Painwheel/Double. Even if i lose painwheel i can still play an “equal” game so to speak in terms of options, while if i kill a duo team character it is all downhill from there, Though let me phrase this, teams are not alwyas better unless you have a well composed team, I just think certain character’s don’t compliment each other. or at least certain assists don’t compliment them. also, your dhcs have to be well setup to make up for the lack of damage. you have to have combos off your assist hits, you have to know your dhc pathways. Maybe some triple teams give up damage, personally mine feels like it hasn’t if only cause of how easy my characters are to dhc into.painwheels air super into filias dp super into cat heads or level 3, thats alot of damage, and painwheel builds shit tons of meter and isn’t reliant on it. I beat many players that i would consider way better than me just cause i think my team is composed well. A shitty composed triple team will lose to well developed duo team im pretty sure.
0 = I don’t know
I’m fairly uncertain of the bottom 3 on that list, so you might as well consider all those to be “I don’t know” If there is a score for any of the bottom 3 it’s a placeholder from what little insightful discussion I was able to have.
Scores were determined through my own personal experience and analysis as well as speaking with other intelligent people who are also very good at analysis and breaking down elements of a character.
I’ve been very hesitant to post this in public because I know about the kind of backlash that can come from trying to quantify character strengths, but since everyone here seems to be discussing it anyway, and quite civily I might add, I decided to post this now.
heh… well i just learned how to punish that ass… so that puts double some tiers down in my book… which coincidentally puts parasoul up…
but lets face it… it dont matter what i think. im a nobody. i just write more than other people i guess… also in my last tier list i had EVERYONE at A. thats exactly how i feel… for instance i just came across some RIDICULOUS painwheel tech courtesy of skykings vid against dat homie boodendorf. skyking was using solo painwheel and his strat was so obvious yet so smart im kicking myself that i didnt think of it cause i was on the right track… but i talked myself out of it before coming to the realization. anywho skykings strat was to abuse the shit out of painwheels multi hit moves… basically it was 3 hits of j.mp, then land and 3 hits of cr.mp, then chain into 3-4 hits of F+hk… which is basically 9 hits of NON PUSHBLOCKABLE MOVES… it was amazing seeing the kind of pressure he was putting on with no assist… with assists that shit would be absoulutely out of hand or at the very least quite good… im seeing it with filia hairball into high/low/throw as maybe a reason to drop para. ive already got double…
anywho im just saying this cause i think its really still to early to be calling any character anything… i just learned something absolutely amazing about a character that ive been using for a month and that i havet seen mentioned in the forums nor seen on vid (and i got my mind changed on a character i was convinced was broken)… this game is wide open. watch boo’s vids, guitalex makes ms. fortune look DOPE. theres way to much unknown about this game still yet to be discovered
i do however think parasoul is solid… but i think EVERY character is solid and am getting more and more hype for this game as the minute goes by… sooo well balanced, so much depth in the characters… i think this might go down as one of if not the best fighting games of all time (though butt assist probably still needs some nerfing)
Well, like I mentioned in the same post that I posted Double’s analysis, I also wrote the definitions of the parameters I’m using.
But I guess I’ll repost it.
[details=Spoiler]Character Parameters
Parameters will be rated from 1 to 10 (10 meaning best, not perfect), including halves. Each parameter is weighed in its own category,
so please take a look at each description to fully understand
how the assessment was made.
Neutral Viability
A review of how well the character fairs in neutral situations,
especially in respect to how the character can shift into an
offensive or damage dealing state,
as well as avoid being put into a defensive or receiving damage state.
Offensive Viability
An overview of the character’s ability
to create damage opportunities
when they have the advantage,
as well as prevent the opponent
from escaping or safely retaliating.
Defensive Viability
An evaluation of the character’s ability to escape
from situations where they are at a disadvantage
or create opportunities to retaliate.
Reward Assessment
A general outlook on a character’s average
damage and tension gain, taking into account
how often maximum or minimum
damage situations can occur.
Also assess other potential rewards.
Team Versatility
Describes a character’s viability to take part in multiple team sizes,
including good assist moves, and how well a character
fares with an assist as well as without.
The more team sizes the character
can be used on viably, the higher the rank.
Character Versatility
Describes the character’s ability to execute
numerous viable game plans. (Not included in average)
Complexity
Describes the character’s ability in terms of the number of
TOTAL options in any given time. (Not included in average)
OVERALL
An average of all above factors[/details]
That’s what has me so perplexed with this character; when do you decide when it goes from just Neutral Harassment to fullscreen offense?
And for her defense, She has LP/MP gun as well as her HK teleport which has startup invincibility. That’s more than what Valentine and Painwheel have, that’s for sure.
Thinking about Parasoul: her tears are pretty strong on offense, you can’t really pushblock them or anything, so I’m probably going to put her up to 7.5 or 8. Not sure if her offense is better than Valentine’s or not.
I don’t follow. If you think you need Double assist to fight Double assist. Why wouldn’t you want that perceived advantage of putting them into the same situation?
i PERSONALLY dont like to fight against bomber without my own to neutralize it and force stalemates. however i dont know how the other guy thinks… he might not mind fighting bomber, but i LOVE parasoul in the mirror. cause i personally know how to make better use of her against another painwheel, whereas bomber can be iffy as pain is one of the better characters at dealing with bomber (it completely misses if the other person calls out bomber then jumps cause the higher the point character gets the higher painwheel flies if shes holding up. if the opponent doesnt jump then bomber can hit her but only if shes in the right range and only if shes staying still or flying backwards, if shes flying forward bomber cant hit her. anywho since i know that pain can deal with bomber well… but that i personally dont like dealing with it, especially in the corner, i only opt for it if the other guy has one that way im not forced to take to the skies to avoid it if i dont want to… the other guy might not mind being forced into the skies though. and pillar protects painwheel from another painwheels overhead advances whereas bomber is more situational.
if you still dont get it… just take it as a preference thing… thats all it really is.
