What’s Cerebella’s average damage output?
Combo super combo super? One Nom? Sounds familiar…
Oh wait, maybe it’s because I already said she requires meter to do that much damage.
She has better uses for meter. Like… a level 3 punishing anything full screen, for example. A reset into level 3. Basically… level 3.
If 3 bars aren’t being spent simultaneously on a level 3 early in a combo or after a reset, it makes more sense to just spend one bar and go for the reset. Trust me on this one.
So, i was playing a peacock/ double/ cerebell/a team, cerebella anti air grab assist is stupid good against painwheel, it reaches the one area that she could normally bait updo or pillar assist. you also can’t avoid it, even if your all the way up in the air. its godlike for keeping painwheel out. I’m not sure if can super armor fly cancel through the anti air grab.
im loving my painwheel filia double team. painwheel uses almost no meter. is a great battery and does tons of damage, her dhc options into filia are godlike. if you can corner carry them, and do a painwheels air super, you can dhc into filias dp super into doubles level 3 and follow up with a full barrel loop if you didnt use your otg. can ToD a duo team if you have 3.25 meters at the start of the corner carry.(works on everyone but double)
I’m just trying to gauge her reward. If she can consistently get 6k of random stuff while using supers, then that’s part of her reward. Deciding not to go all the way and going for the reset instead has more to do with her offense.
But she has some really invisible resets. The reward for getting a hit in with her is having an opportunity to reset. Sure, if this means her BnBs will do 4k before the resets that’s great. But without the resets the damage/meter ratio goes bonkers if you want any real damage, the damage scaling makes her abysmal damage even worse AND your opponent will get more meter than you. A LOT more.
Since she requires many hits for her better damage combos, it makes more sense for her to go for resets and just spend one bar (if the reset was an air throw, go for qcb+KK, a ground throw go for qcf+PP) and it will always do more damage than continuing the ground or air chain into another super. Not to mention her headless qcf+PP gives an assload of meter to the opponent late in combos, and it’s the one blockbuster which will do the most damage in long combos.
Man, you guys need to stop saying Val does low damage. She has that orange vial that causes input delay, please start comboing into that instead of green/purple. They will have to predict and commit to defending mixup so early, man that shit is cheap.
Exactly. And even without the vial her damage output is better than most characters, once again, pulsar’s valentine bnb does over 8000 with no assist, anywhere from the screen, even from a grab. Seriously think about that.
But I never thought about doing dirty mixups with the orange vial, it just doesn’t last long enough.
You guys are all praising resets but what really matters is consistent solid reliable damage. It doesn’t matter if you give your opponent more meter you ckc them or even 2hko them. Resets are aren’t reliable. Don’t be lazy guys, learn very damaging combos and resets.
Who exactly is calling Valentine a low damage character? o_O
Something about Val’s multihit normals bring scaling downfast so her damage is low. She has that orange vial, it’s not unjustified. You can combo into it, land a mixup, drop it and mixup one more time before it wears off and possibly combo into it again when it does.
i would say you should be aiming for around 7-8K with super.
edit : thats midscreen anyway. not sure about corner since i dont practice corner combos much.
yeah, this is exactly how i imagined the lag vial to be… a reset weapon… definitely has the chance of being way better than green.
nawman, resets imho will always be super retarded good in this game… there is no tech in this game, and basically ticks come about SO fast… one reason i guess is that mike didnt put inherent throw protection from throws in this game ie unthrowable for 2-3 frames AFTER coming out of hit or blockstun… as an example… blocked hornet bomber… well its 3 hits… now think of the timing of those 3 hits they have the same time inbetween them… imagine if it were 4 hits (the example is for timing) well the timing that the 4th hit would have hit is actually SLOWER then the timing that you can get thrown out of blockstun from a hornet bomber, it basically feels like you block the 3rd hit of bomber and then IMMEDIATELY get thrown.
now lets look at lows… they just blow up ANY throw tech attempt. my friend does throw just out of blockstun, or mixup up with cr.lp,cr.lk,cr.mk (filia) and if you tried to tech trow during any of that you are combod… seriously there is NO SKILL to low/throw in this game other than getting the position from which you can apply said mixup. once in that position it isnt like sf4 where you have to have very good timed frame traps in order to blow up crouch tech. all you have to do is guess right. and then you basically take you free damage. and if you guessed wrong, just call out an assist to blockstun the other guy and get another free guess. and if they have double assist on there team? have fun trying to block the 3/5 mixups you will be subjected to.
and thats just throw/low resets which are simpl and easy and any noob can get down. then after that you can start actually using more skilled left/right resets and high/low ones. basically making resets FEEL LIKE sf4 vortexs.
-dime
I’ve never looked at it like that before. That’s evil. Just evil. I think I’ll use that…
I have no idea why people haven’t BEEN using her orange vial.
That’s because everyone’s been dead set on damage and learning the green vial combo.
Mix ups / resets really haven’t been factored into many people’s games unless your Cerebella / Filia.
Green vial combos are just obnoxious, but they do a good job of running down time more than anything. I kinda wish orange vial lasted slightly longer, but it is far more useful as being more vulnerable to resets is much worse than "oh, here’s a super long combo"
And I feel that purple vial is more useful than people give it credit
Also: I agree with the idea that low/throw mixups are almost like a defining force in the way the game is played. Seriously, throws are a lot crazier than I initially thought.
resets in this game are so godlike as resets are so safe are always at least a 50 50 cause of how throws work, not just that but you have to recognize when they are going for the reset. Painwheel is gonna have so many reset opportunities because her combos force so many restands. I think this also applies to the run stop loops of cerebella have some really good reset opportunities. Currently im only focusing on damage, cause im not used to resets, but resets in this game are so good you can’t ignore them.
i figured out a bunch of resets with cerebella the other day, and havent really used any of them apart from low/throw since you cant react to either of them at all. i havent needed any overhead mixups since a throw is basically the fastest overhead in the world.
ive gotten in the habit of not really using meter in combos a lot either unless it will get me the kill.
Dime, I never said resets weren’t good, I just said you shouldn’t rely solely on them, they aren’t always 100 percent safe. It’s only month one and there already are touch of death combos, sure they are team based, but they are viable. Don’t be lazy, learn combos too, especially because not every character can do anything they want after a grab anywhere on screen like valentine can. You are right about the crouching grab resets, really lame you can’t tech while guarding low, it allows for some really dirty stuff.
That sounds more accurate.
oh i know you didnt say that, im just saying that the only time i WOULD NOT go for a reset say 3500 damage or higher into my combo is when i know that my full combo will kill… resets are to good to just do full combo into half life with bad positioning… which means that typically you are going to see between 2 and 4 resets per character depending on the character, and the opponents ratio. seriously i would only go for full combo early in my opponents health pool for the psychological damage… once again only if its the first time ive played them… just to show them that I CAN and that any blow up could mean atleast half life. after that its mostly resets as they are just to good and many times just force reversals… like i said, they are pretty much “vortexes” against standing opponents. this is why so many games already seem so one sided for one game, then one sided for the other guy the next game… once someone gets a hit, you generally end up cornered and then reset raped and the even when the reset fails you still have a cornered opponent and the corner in this game seems more rape than any other game ive played… seriously.
but yeah, im not advocating not learning your characters longest combos… im just advcating NOT using them, unless they will kill… but sometimes YOU JUST HAVE STYLE WITH A SMILE!!!
ahem… anyways on some different shit, my offline friend and i came to the realization that in order to effectively fight double assist… you have to have double assist. ie my offline friend is alot better than me, but after playing against my painwheel/double team he was convinced that that assist was the best one in the game and started using it himself. LOL that salt that flowed from both our tear ducts was priceless.
and finally im realizing that most of the problems i have with people is… double assist… that mike z tech is assuming that the user is using peadouble… but what if the user is using a rushdown character??? shit is really free as butt pretty much allows for free spacial control against damn near any other assist. i had success using pillar assist against booty bomber on reaction… but the timing is kinda tough (to early and parasoul gets hit cause bomber invincibility overlaps pillar invincibilty, to late and she gets hit during vulnerable startup) and you only get rid of double assist, but still have to deal with the point character cause they will generally be out of range of pillar.
so yeah, we were ducking double assist, but that shit becomes predictable and there are mixups for when we think the opponent will do it. also… FILIA IS A GREAT USER OF DOUBLE ASSIST. you dont want to duck against filia… so ducking hornet bomber is kinda not an option… meaning that filia can lock down for extremely long amounts of time with it.
LOL, i just cant believe that people think its overrated. but w/e.
-dime