Skillful Rekkagnition (Fei Long Matchup Thread)

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
101

try getting within cr.LP range against bison. Within that range, you can out speed a lot of his moves with cr.LP xx rekka. Just beware of his EX specials because they have invincibility. If the opponent likes to tech-throw a lot, add some overhead kicks in your pressure game

you can close in on bison by EX rekka (first 2 hits since they’re safe on block), EX CW occasionally, or 1-hit blocked rekkas @ max distance. Avoid these 3 attacks if the opponent is throwing out s.MK and s.HK continuously. In that case, you’ll need another plan:

Bison’s s.MK can be countered safely with a well-spaced s.HP at max distance. Space your s.HP so that the gap between the handshake and bison’s foot is barely not touching. Because fei’s s.HP hitbox is slightly further away than his hurtbox compared to bison’s s.MK, you’ll beat it. Keep doing this if he likes to spam s.MK, discouraging him to not use s.MK.

Bison’s s.HK on the other hand, you need to be within closer range, where you can counter with cr.HP safely. Alternatively, you can stay within the s.HP optimal range, watching for bison to throw a s.HK within his array of s.MK’s. The recovery frames for bison’s s.HK is pretty high, which you can counter on reaction with MP.rekka if standing within optional s.HP range.

Note that s.MK and s.HK can also be countered with focus. A 2nd s.HK/s.MK won’t be fast enough to break your focus, which subsequently you can dash cancel forward when the focus attack connects. Fei is only @ -1 after the dash. At -1, fei’s cr.LP can still out beat all of bison’s attacks, except for his grab and EX scissors and crusher. Go for the cr.LP or a flamekick (FADC if it gets blocked).

Scissor kicks are difficult to deal with since they’re pretty safe for bison if they’re spaced properly, but he doesn’t gain any frame advantages on block. After a blocked scissors, if you expect another scissor kick to come out immediately, try jumping and then countering with j.HK. It’s a much safe option than going for a flamekick reversal. I don’t think bison can execute another scissor kick fast enough to be considered as a meaty attack, allowing you enough time to jump. Otherwise, if you don’t expect another scissor, go for a safe blocked rekka to close in on him

If you get a knockdown, safe jump nj.HP works great against bison, which on block, can be followed by blocked s.LP xx tenshin, frame traps, cr.LP xx LP rekka pressure, overhead kicks, or a teleport OS if you expect one coming

To mix things up after a round or 2, instead of working your way in, switch your plan and try staying out of his scissor range altogether and make him come to you. This is a good opportunity to catch his closing-in attacks with s.HP. Equip yourself with Ultra 2 to counter his devil reversals

102

You really need to start posting videos of your matches so that we can see where your troubles lie. Follow Fohstick’s advice for sure. Also, if you KD Bison, more times than not they’ll do EX Crusher. Reversal Rekkas, Supers, Ultra (1. Ultra 2 doesn’t work against Crushers).

I prefer to use U2 in the matchup anyway cuz if he does devil stomp, scissors, or U1, we counter those for free. His U2 breaks glass, so you can’t use it there. If he’s laming you out with his kicks, crouch under them, or focus them. If they’re doing :lk: scissors, it’s even on block. Might as well not press anything. It’ll startup faster than any of our buttons.

If he does any other version (which you can tell, because their respective startups are much slower), you can punish easily. It’s an even matchup, and you can use tick tenshin (:lp: into tenshin/ex tenshin) if they’re in the corner.

103

I’ve written about that match-up on the first page.

104

Shinosha wrote this months ago. I’m just copying and pasting it here.

M.Bison

[details=Spoiler]

My knowledge of the Bison matchup. Feel free to correct/improve.

Fei Long VS Dictator

Mindset/Approach

There are two types of Bison players. Those who try to rush you down and those who sit and wait for you to come. From my experience (as a Fei Long and a Dictator), the second type is the most appropriate style to fight Fei Long. Good dictator will usually stay out of your Rekka range to pressure you with Scissors as well as whiff punishing you if can’t space your offense properly. The key here is to seize the opportunity and be patient.

Punishes

Devil ReverseDiver/Skull Diver : cr.MK or Flamekick
EX Psycho : HP Rekkas
Unsafe scissors : cr.LP xx Rekkas
Slide : cr.LP xx Rekkas
cr.HP : Rekkas

Best moves

Dictator

st.HK : Good damage and range and probably his main anti air. It can easily stuff Rekkas if did up close.
st.MK : Very good range and quick move. He uses it in a similar fashion than st.HK as it can stuff most of your moves as well. If he starts to spam it just walk back a bit to whiff punish it.
cr.HK : His slide is unsafe unless did at max range, but it’s kinda fast and can eventually scores an untechable knockdown, which is usually followed up by cross up Psycho. Just throw out some focus or neutral jump for big punish.

Scissors Kick : Charge move. Only the light version is safe and 0 on block so if you find yourself in a loop just back off. Careful though : the Medium and Heavy versions are safe at max range.
Psycho Crusher : Damaging but unsafe, you’ll only see it in combos. The EX version however is safe at max range and can act as a frame trap.

Fei Long

cr.HP : Good poke that can stuff scissors if done early.
j.MP : Pretty much the best jump in up close as it breaks Bison’s st.HK.
Overhead : Although not safe, can be used occasionally as it can avoid EX Psycho if timed right.
cr.MK : Interesting move because it allows you to counter poke st.HK by going “underneath” it. It can also evade Devil Reverse and Skull Diver so don’t be afraid to rush him if he starts spamming them.

Rekkas : Your main tool to push Bison in the corner. Be careful with the second hit, it can be punished easily by his cr.LK.
Rekkukyaku : Use your chicken wing to close the gap between you and your opponent. If the Bison is good he’ll punish it with st.HK so don’t insist if you see he does. Light and Medium version can avoid EX Psycho at close range, which is pretty cool.

Neutral Game

The goal here is to push him in the corner. You should stay outside of his LK Scissors and st.HK range. From here you can pressure him all day with Rekkas or bait him and whiff punish. If you do get caught in his pressure you have few options :

  • Chill
  • Stuff his next move
  • Jump/Backdash
    For each of your option, he has one too. Your safest bet is probably to stop your offense and see what he does first, then adapt. If you see he’s passive then you should probably try to pressure him more.
    Feel free to throw out some neutral jump if you’re outside of his st.HK. Focus can also be useful but should be used with more care since it can be reacted to with Psycho or Scissors.
    If you get a knockdown, don’t forget Bison can evade in a lot of ways, namely Teleport, Ex Devil Reverse and Ex Psycho. To prevent this kind of behavior you must use OS like Rekkukyaku (if he teleports) and HK Flamekick (for the rest). Only thing this won’t cover is EX Headstomp so watch out for that.

Corner game

This is where you want him to be. In the corner he can’t do much. Pressure him with safe Rekkas, occasional jump ins and watch out for random stuff. In the corner this is usually where he uses his meter trying to escape. If you score a knockdown just meaty him with cr.LK or cr.MP. When did right it’ll recover in time for Ex Psycho and you’ll be able to punish him. Even better you can use cr.LK OS MK Flamekick. Timing and spacing are definitely not easy but once you get it down he’ll understand he should respect you. From the moment he fears you, feel free to use everything Fei Long has to offer (cl.MP, Tenshin…)

Tips

  • Don’t jump too much once he has Ultra (you know why)
  • Regarding the Ultra choice, it is advised to pick U2, as it can contain most of his offense.
  • Watch out for crossup Psycho setups (after a slide, a LK Scissors or a juggle st.HP xx Psycho etc…)
  • If you have life lead, don’t bother chasing him.
  • Although almost no Bison knows/does this, the character can Kara Ultra from Teleport.That results in triggering OS, ending up eating some of them with Ultra. So watch out for that if you face a REALLY good Bison.]

My knowledge of the Bison matchup. Feel free to correct/improve.

Fei Long VS Dictator

Mindset/Approach

There are two types of Bison players. Those who try to rush you down and those who sit and wait for you to come. From my experience (as a Fei Long and a Dictator), the second type is the most appropriate style to fight Fei Long. Good dictator will usually stay out of your Rekka range to pressure you with Scissors as well as whiff punishing you if can’t space your offense properly. The key here is to seize the opportunity and be patient.

Punishes

Devil ReverseDiver/Skull Diver : cr.MK or Flamekick
EX Psycho : HP Rekkas
Unsafe scissors : cr.LP xx Rekkas
Slide : cr.LP xx Rekkas
cr.HP : Rekkas

Best moves

Dictator

st.HK : Good damage and range and probably his main anti air. It can easily stuff Rekkas if did up close.
st.MK : Very good range and quick move. He uses it in a similar fashion than st.HK as it can stuff most of your moves as well. If he starts to spam it just walk back a bit to whiff punish it.
cr.HK : His slide is unsafe unless did at max range, but it’s kinda fast and can eventually scores an untechable knockdown, which is usually followed up by cross up Psycho. Just throw out some focus or neutral jump for big punish.

Scissors Kick : Charge move. Only the light version is safe and 0 on block so if you find yourself in a loop just back off. Careful though : the Medium and Heavy versions are safe at max range.
Psycho Crusher : Damaging but unsafe, you’ll only see it in combos. The EX version however is safe at max range and can act as a frame trap.

Fei Long

cr.HP : Good poke that can stuff scissors if done early.
j.MP : Pretty much the best jump in up close as it breaks Bison’s st.HK.
Overhead : Although not safe, can be used occasionally as it can avoid EX Psycho if timed right.
cr.MK : Interesting move because it allows you to counter poke st.HK by going “underneath” it. It can also evade Devil Reverse and Skull Diver so don’t be afraid to rush him if he starts spamming them.

Rekkas : Your main tool to push Bison in the corner. Be careful with the second hit, it can be punished easily by his cr.LK.
Rekkukyaku : Use your chicken wing to close the gap between you and your opponent. If the Bison is good he’ll punish it with st.HK so don’t insist if you see he does. Light and Medium version can avoid EX Psycho at close range, which is pretty cool.

Neutral Game

The goal here is to push him in the corner. You should stay outside of his LK Scissors and st.HK range. From here you can pressure him all day with Rekkas or bait him and whiff punish. If you do get caught in his pressure you have few options :

  • Chill
  • Stuff his next move
  • Jump/Backdash
    For each of your option, he has one too. Your safest bet is probably to stop your offense and see what he does first, then adapt. If you see he’s passive then you should probably try to pressure him more.
    Feel free to throw out some neutral jump if you’re outside of his st.HK. Focus can also be useful but should be used with more care since it can be reacted to with Psycho or Scissors.
    If you get a knockdown, don’t forget Bison can evade in a lot of ways, namely Teleport, Ex Devil Reverse and Ex Psycho. To prevent this kind of behavior you must use OS like Rekkukyaku (if he teleports) and HK Flamekick (for the rest). Only thing this won’t cover is EX Headstomp so watch out for that.

Corner game

This is where you want him to be. In the corner he can’t do much. Pressure him with safe Rekkas, occasional jump ins and watch out for random stuff. In the corner this is usually where he uses his meter trying to escape. If you score a knockdown just meaty him with cr.LK or cr.MP. When did right it’ll recover in time for Ex Psycho and you’ll be able to punish him. Even better you can use cr.LK OS MK Flamekick. Timing and spacing are definitely not easy but once you get it down he’ll understand he should respect you. From the moment he fears you, feel free to use everything Fei Long has to offer (cl.MP, Tenshin…)

Tips

  • Don’t jump too much once he has Ultra (you know why)
  • Regarding the Ultra choice, it is advised to pick U2, as it can contain most of his offense.
  • Watch out for crossup Psycho setups (after a slide, a LK Scissors or a juggle st.HP xx Psycho etc…)
  • If you have life lead, don’t bother chasing him.
  • Although almost no Bison knows/does this, the character can Kara Ultra from Teleport.That results in triggering OS, ending up eating some of them with Ultra. So watch out for that if you face a REALLY good Bison. spoiler]
105

Is there a way to just add into these tabs? Just to keep all the info in one place?

106

when bison goes for a fake devil reverse, you can dash forward twice and catch him with an U1. Demonstrated @ 1:06

107

Yeah, I’ve used that on the regular DR before also. Punishing that move is essential IMO because XBL spammers love that shit. I’m actually thinking of putting together a video with character specific punishments. Bison has lots.

108

Hey guys,

I’d like to pick your brains for a bit and ask for Dhalsim matchup info. Anything that helps really. My XP with this matchup is only watching vids, basically.

109

Watch DR Ray vs FChamp from the VXG finals, that should give you a good idea on how to play. Aggressively walking forward but also blocking as you go. If you find yourself at the 3/4 screen distance where a jump will get hit by a RH or walking forward will be met with a HP you’re being too passive/aggressive and need to look at the holes in the Sim players game. When I say passive/aggressive I mean that you’ve most likely fallen into HIS game, that Sim sweet spot where he can press pretty much whatever he wants and yoga fire all day.

I find that when you fall into this dreaded area, you have make a move by either doing one of a few options:

a) Focus dash his HP and MP/EX rekka as a punish, or if you were late at least he blocked and you’re close now

b) Ex CW his yoga fire, risky but hey you need to get in. Be warned that if you’ve telegraphed the CW his HP will stuff it on startup. Or if he recovered early enough you’ll eat a Yoga Knee (back HK) <- this isn’t too bad either as you’re near him again. The HP stuffing the CW is definitely the worst of all the outcomes as you’ve just wasted a bar, ate CH damage, and you’re still at square 1 lol

c) If you’re sitting on a life lead and don’t necessarily need to rush Sim down yet, and you guys are hovering at that 3/4 screen distance, a cr.MK will stuff his HP if used in anticipation of said button, but I can’t say for certain that it will beat his cr.LP

d) If you’ve got him cornered but you’re still within HP/HK distance, and can’t close the space try not to jump forward. Why? He wants you to do this, because guess whats coming? Yup, the teleport. Most Sim’s use the trusted Yoga Fire - you jump forward - he teleports out T_T bye bye Sim. What to do to counteract this? When I see him YF I neutral jump, cuz if he teleports behind me you can HK, which hits behind you.

e) Getting hit by Yoga Snipe? You kinda have to anticipate the distance and know that it’s available to him and react and block. Or you could focus if you’ve either read it or are gdlk like that and dash punish. I can almost guarantee that if you do this the Sim will get even more scared that he already is (Sim should be scared of you).

I’ve seen some Fei’s use U2, and I have as well a few times when the Sim I’m playing is predictable with the HP, but honestly you get 3 hits out of FK FADC CW U1 so why not? Personal preference really but I’d advise to stick to U1 unless you think you’ve got the Sim figured out, fair enough?

One thing I can’t stress enough, and this isn’t even just the Sim MU. When you have him in the corner PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEAAAAASEEEEEE keep him there. Your “ambiguous” jump ins which are really cross ups are not so much at all and should they block, which usually happens, you just gave them the whole screen. Now if you have them in that dreaded left corner please DO go for the non cross up jump ins a la Tokido style (jump mp is a bitch when you make it non cross up, same goes for LK and sometimes mk). Those are just nasty and if they blocked try a tenshin setup but ONLY if its going to kill. You did yourself a disservice if you got him to the corner and then tenshin’d immediately. I’m not talking about you specifically Shiny (about the jumping into the corner), I mean all the Fei’s on here :smiley:

On wake up mid screen always os his backdash with Rekka, and remember that Sim gets off the ground in 3F instead of the usual 4F so if your meaty pressure if bad he’s going to jump away (noooooo Sim stahp, Sim pls T_T)

Hope these little pointers help out, personally and after playing FChamp (he does reside up here in NorCal after all) a few times all I can really tell you is walk and block, and take a risk when you feel it’s necessary. I have a personal system where if I ate two hits in a row, I’ll wait to make another risky move. I’m sure there’s stuff I forgot but I hope that this’ll push you in the right direction :slight_smile:

110

Yeah corner pressure’s where its at. As USF mentions you should never really jump on sim and a good sim player won’t let you. One thing other thing is to watch for Sim gaining Ultra under your pressure. Personally if I’ve got him cornered, I will tic throw, cr.lk meaty , overhead him to death until he get’s ultra, then if I KD him I’ll stop a little. A lot of Sims use wake up Ultra just to breath but once you see the flash hit throw and you throw through the start up frames of his Ultra and it’s back to square one for poor old sim.

Other little snippits would be that Raw Tenshin and the jab cancel Tenshin work extremely well on a cornered sim. Again a meaty Tenshin will negate the Ultra because of it’s slow startup.

If you find you have him in block stun mid screen I’d always usually take a gamble on a CW or another rekka. Like USF mentions Sim will back dash all day every day.

You can also sweep the long fierce limbs from full screen (watch Fuudo do this on replays) and overhead the limbs from mid/full screen (puts you airborne).

111

Great stuff, thank you guys.

112

I should have looked at all this before a mini tourney that I was in where I lost to a Sim ;(. A Sim that I ended up bodying in casuals smh.

113

Ok so here’s a match between me and FChamp, while I lose do keep in mind a few things (and for the more veteran Fei’s here some pointers would be nice!):

a) Walking and blocking until I eventually corner him. Notice the blocks for Yoga Snipe, that can’t be something you sometimes get as I got a Rekka after one of them. I know I suggested focusing limbs but thats hard to do online :stuck_out_tongue:

b) Risk taking/punish. Rekka (MP/EX), EX CW. Notice how when he threw bad YG I CW to get in and when I was in range to (possibly) Rekka I took the risk as well. Also I guessed on an EX CW to get it and it worked because I beat his HP but theres more reward on my end of the table as I get corner carry+damage so it’s a risk i’m willing to take. I also wasn’t being predictable with the CW so I didn’t get met with a Yoga Knee

c) Corner pressure. Once I cornered him it was pressure pressure pressure. Punished his bad Ultra, and overheaded when I felt he was down backing me.

d) Neutral jumps. To beat the teleport, I kinda mistimed the RH but you can see how it should be applied. I also didn’t really jump too much until I got down on life (like how he won the 1st round). Also I didn’t really fall into the trap of jumping over his fireball so he could teleport out

e) While I suggested OS him, and you should, I wasn’t doing it (arggg). If anything and it was offline I would just react with either a cr HP (plink HP as you press cr lk) or I would have let him backdash and just raw ultra. I have a bad habit of letting people do stuff online cuz I play heavily on reactions and online always seems to fail me at the wrong times :frowning: lol. That being said, had I OS rekka, he would have been in the corner instead of focusing jabs and shorts

f) While hard to teach/learn, blocking the yoga fire teleport mixup is pretty essential. I did the hard part, which was blocking the mixup and then got hit low cuz I was pressing buttons lol…twice…double lol. But you can see what I mean though

Well hope this gives you guys some insight into the MU, I would hope the best Sim in the world (IMO) would be a good starting point lol. Let me know if you guys need anything else :slight_smile: Good luck, this really is a hard MU even at the higher levels because of how patient/risky you have to play at times

114

Usually I just focus a bit to progress, although it has been ages since I faced a good Sim. I noticed FChamp used the 4 buttons tech in the end because he was respecting you enough not to do a simple teleport/backdash. I don’t even now what you can do against that except react to it or meaty tenshin. Besides that you seem to know the ranges of his limbs, why no try to sweep them Fuudo-style ?

Imo Sim is gonna be horrible in the next version. His new 2 hits st.MK urgh…

115

God damn I hate getting hit by that Super, such a game changer. Nice match! You played well. Only thing I would have done different is not use the back throw in the corner and maybe overhead a few more limbs.

I’m always undecided with Sim, sometimes I play exactly like you played here and other times I just bulldoze my way in and take 300-400 damage if I can just get him into that corner by pure aggression. Both seem to work equally as bad or good. Watching Fuudo vs FChamp though (I think it was Canada cup maybe?) he opted for the aggression.

Yeah I’m not sure if he’ll keep that. That doesn’t really address his core problems. He’ll still get mauled by Cammy and the dive kick crew and be even stronger against slower moving characters like T-Hawk/Geif etc etc. It’s a bad fix IMO.

116

Dhalsim is a huge pain in the ass for me. Mid-screen, he throws our cr.hp and knees to punish jump-in attempts. In the corner, it’s mash s.lk (far and short) all day. How do I get in on him?

117

Dhalsim

[details=Spoiler]

My knowledge of the Dhalsim matchup. Feel free to correct/improve.

Fei Long VS Dhalsim

Mindset/Approach

Every Sim player has to play the keep away game. Midscreen game is not an option for us. His normals are active forever so you have to win this match in the corner. If he teleports out, we have problems. The key here is to seize the opportunity and be patient.

Punishes

Crouch :hp:, st. :lp: Focus and release/Flame Kicks
Teleports on KD : OS HK/EX CW x Rekkas
:db: :hk: cr.LP xx Rekkas
Slide : cr.LP xx Rekkas

Best moves

Dhalsim

st.HK : Good damage and range and probably his main anti air. It can easily stuff Rekkas if did up close.
st.MK : Very good range and quick move. He uses it in a similar fashion than st.HK as it can stuff most of your moves as well. If he starts to spam it just walk back a bit to whiff punish it.
cr.HK : His slide is unsafe unless did at max range, but it’s slow. Just throw out some focus for big punish.
st. LK: startup is a little faster but can be focused as well.

Yoga Fire: Mostly for spacing purposes. Sim will want you to jump to hit you with :b: :hk: (the AA Knee; probably his best AA move besides EX Yoga Blast) LP fireball travels the furthest, and HP the shortest. EX Fireballs hit twice and go the entire length of the screen.

Yoga Flame: breaks focus, and is safe on block.
Teleport: to get Sim out of the precarious situations. And Instant Air teleport to cross you up for big dmg.
Super: very fast on startup, and IMO feel like it’s almost always done on WU after a KD.
Ultra: Slow startup, but travels halfway on screen. Active for very long. Can combo Super after Ultra.
Throw: his throw I think comes out faster than ours. Most Sims use crouch throw tech.

Fei Long

Focus: Good for when Sim is uses pokes. Will lead to crumple if you did focus lvl 2.
j.MP : Safe jump with this.
Overhead : Although not safe, can be used when they’re crouching.
st.HP: The handshake works well if they teleport in the corner.
Rekkas : Your main tool to push Sim in the corner. Be careful with the second hit, it can be punished easily by his cr.LK.
Rekkukyaku : Use your chicken wing to close the gap between you and Sim, and you can do EX CW to go through Sim’s fireballs. I believe his recovery is very slow on Yoga Fire. Don’t abuse it though, as Yoga Flame and Super/Ultra will beat it out.
Flame Kick: If done quick enough, you can beat out the normals and yoga fire.

Neutral Game

The goal here is to push him in the corner. From here you can pressure him all day with Rekkas or bait him and whiff punish. If you do get caught in his pressure you have few options :

  • Chill
  • Stuff his next move

If you get a knockdown, don’t forget Sim can evade in a lot of ways, namely Teleport, To prevent this kind of behavior you must use OS like Rekkukyaku (if he teleports)

Corner game

This is where you want him to be. In the corner he can’t do much. Pressure him with safe Rekkas, occasional overheads and watch out for random stuff (especially Super). In the corner this is usually where he uses his meter trying to escape. If you score a knockdown just meaty him with cr.LK or cr.MP. Even better you can use cr.LK OS MK Flamekick. Timing and spacing are definitely not easy but once you get it down he’ll understand he should respect you. From the moment he fears you, feel free to use everything Fei Long has to offer (cl.MP, Tenshin…)

Ultra: If he does U1 from far away, you can’t really do much. But up close, you can use throw on him. If he does U2, neutral jump, or you can use flame kick or flame kick x FADC U1

Tips

  • Regarding the Ultra choice, use U1. More times than not, you probably won’t be using it raw. I’ve never seen anyone use U2 to stuff Sim’s normals but you can give it a try.
  • Watch out for teleport setups (Instant air teleport (IAT) jump HP x :b: :mk: x Yoga Flame)
  • If you have life lead, don’t bother chasing him. But look out for repeated fireballs.

Here’s a video from Evo with Fuudo playing a Sim.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qnQ5t2LwCM

118


@ 6:56

from fullscreen, if you suspect akuma to throw a low neutral air-fireball, you can double dash forward and U1. Start the first dash when akuma is at the peak of his neutral jump. This is gonna be even easier to pull off in the future because akuma’s airball land recovery is gonna get extended in USF4

119

^ Nice find, man.

120

How does Fei Long do vs the other high end footsies characters? Fei is often considered the footsies king but how does he do against Rose, Vega, Bison, Rog, Chun, Ken and Ryu? What is it that allows him to be outplayed in the midrange by some of these characters? Trying to construct a better understanding of why there isn’t decisively a top neutral game character.