why the hell not??? the shit is fun. thats all that matters.We are not asking them to make SF4 more appealing to us so why are you new guys calling our opinions “wrong”. hell i didnt even know an opinion could be wrong lol
WE LIKE THE SYSTEM.
blows my mind how we have guys who never cared about 3S, currently dont like 3S, who are only here because Ono gave them SF4 up in arms about that fact that 99% of 3S players dont want the game to be changed. we like broken shit.
GO PLAY 4
Collect the bashes on the SF3 community and send them to me via PM or something please.
You should probably read the article, because there are no direct insults to the SF3 community at large, just those who are anti-balancing in any community.
It’s broken to YOU. This is a subjective argument. To the tons of 3s players the game is fine the way it is. Like I said, the matchups between the top 6 in that game are interesting enough to warrant the game STAY THE SAME to them. “Anti-Progress” is something you attribute to a community that is unwilling to change, but I bet you if you DID go and ask the 3s community, yeah-- they’d fine with a rebalance. But you know what they’d like more? An arcade perfect port of the game. In fact, they would LOVE an arcade perfect port of the game, where they wouldn’t have to fire up their PS2’s or throw on GGPO every time they wanted to throw down. That’s what they got. They got what they wanted. Shame on Capcom for listening to what people want.
There are other examples of anti progress, but this isn’t one of them. You’re throwing 3s players under the bus to try and make a point so you seem to have the higher ground. That’s the problem with Sirlin’s article.
I read the article. Everything about anti progress he is implying to the 3s community. How is that not insulting?
I think we all need to stop giving Sirlin attention and let him be in his Yomi world. All these lame ass arguments because some guy who never even played 3S wrote an article about 3S.
martial arts aren’t art in the way say music or drawing are. They’re not creative pursuits.
If I were to compare it to something, it would be to sports. True high level competition in sports ends up like say a Jwong/Daigo match. It really is something unique and special, and people get into all that stuff. I get great joy out of watching competitive track and field, the few times I can actually see it.
The thing is, to me sports would also fall under ‘toys’ kind of (I guess technically ‘games’), especially definitions 2 and 3 from your dictionary post. It gets a bit strained because there are more components involved, but the parallel holds. They’re something you can take seriously and enjoy, and there are people that can make a living from them, but unless you’re actually a real pro (like its your day job), its still a toy, a diversion you do for enjoyment.
If somebody’s playing FG’s and not enjoying them, they need to quit.
In no way is it implied to the 3S community, its to every community. Holy shit just because he mentions 3S as an example doesn’t mean all the criticism is directed at it. For fucks sake, he goes on to talk about Starcraft for a majority of the article.
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Wouldn’t the controller/arcade stick constitute as an object which manipulates the representation of something familiar that’s going on on the screen?
He’s using a different but also correct definition. Anything can be ‘an art’. Have you never heard the phrase “The art of ____” ? They’re not referring a creative endeavor specifically. Different topic entirely. Sports are an art though.
What exactly do you mean by martial arts not being creative? Not saying right/wrong just trying to decipher.
The rest of your post I guess comes down to being a fighting game or video game in general changes in definition based on what you end up gaining from it.
Well the controller/arcade stick is just one component of the “toy” any way. Maybe it’s a toy that hooks up to another toy. I dunno. LOL.
The actual video game you’re playing (let’s say 3S or SFIV) does plenty more IMO than just simply manipulate the representation of something familiar. Which makes it hard for me to justify what we do as simply “manipulating a toy”. I mean you can’t go up to a top player of a video game and be like “you’re really good with that toy”. They’ll think you’re someone’s grandparent resurrected.
Specifically, the balance is broken. That’s not really subjective.
Ok, but wouldn’t it be a better game if you had more than like 3 tournament viable characters and the engine remained unchanged? To which plenty of people are responding “no.” That’s Sirlin’s complaint.
Maybe that’s true. Sirlin didn’t actually claim that the 3S community didn’t want change. Maybe some of that misconception is the title of this thread’s fault.
Again, Capcom isn’t the target of Sirlin’s article.
Sirlin isn’t throwing anyone under the bus other than people who would reject balance changes in a clearly very unbalanced game.
He goes on to reference Starcraft as an example that fits his perspective. He reference the 3s community as one the doesn’t.
**Why are you trying to prove that I have not read an article which I clearly have read, by ignoring the entire crux of Sirlin’s argument. This is a stupid way to try and disprove me. Maybe YOU should probably read the article, which compares and contrasts the approaches of both the 3s community and Capcom to the Starcraft Community and Blizzard before you throw this at me. **
The problem is-- again, Sirlin is throwing a community under the bus to make his point. And it a community that he’s spinning to fit the narrow lines of his narrative. That’s my beef.
“Hey why is 3SOE only an arcade port?”
“Because we wanted an arcade port of Third Strike with GGPO to play”
“Why didn’t they rebalance it?”
“Because we wanted the arcade version”
“The game is unbalanced and bad because of it, why do you want the same old game instead of something new to play?”
“There’s a bunch of new fighting games out there to play if I wanted, and I do, but the only way to play 3S is at arcades which don’t exist here or a lesser version on emulators. I just want to play arcade Third Strike, that’s all.”
“You’re anti-progress and anti-balance and you’re ruining the fighting game community because you don’t want your old game changed”
“Hey I’d like a new SFIII game and I don’t mind changes for the better in my new games but I just want to play a nearly arcade perfect version of the Third Strike I remember on my PS3/360 with my TE sticks. I don’t see how wanting an old game for new consoles unchanged is harmful.”
“It is and it’s unbelievable how illogical you are to want your bad game still bad”
Straight from the horse’s mouth. Everyone hating on Sirlin should be hating on Fivec.
Now Fivec just got thrown under the bus. How fitting.
Or just hating on yourself for not reading an article properly. I didn’t say “3S players,” I said “3S purists,” ftr.
His Lord has forsaken him 
Hey let’s treat Fivec like Sirlin likes Third Strike.
Hey Fivec, all you want to do is generate hate within the community. You’re should feel bad for being this way. I don’t care if you like this, you should change and no matter how you change, you’ll be better after than you are now.
This has literally nothing to do with Third Strike other than the fact that a review of the game sparked this comment.
Lol Yall are still going on about this.
Honestly when I think about i making an additional sf3 game would be worthwhile sprite based games tend to be appreciated more and enjoyed more over time .Hence you see folks talking about all the old art designs of the sf series but nobody really gives a hot shit about sf ex.Sad thing is folks dont have that mindset to actually say well i will play sf3 4th barrage or some shit like that.Back in the day it seemed folks were willingly to work with whatever they had as far as games and truly discover various aspects of a character and overcome unbalanced match ups.Thats what sirlin doesn’t understand.Its not folks being mad about balancing its folks saying how about you leave it to the players first to figure shit out. Now that we figured shit out to a tee aint no excuse we cant get another sf3 out hell snk did it with kof 98 and the Art of fighting.It won’t hurt this game at all.
Thing is our community is so Independent we are stupid. We make our own controllers,tournaments,bags,our own games if neccessary.So we aren’t to keen on folks coming in and fiddling with shit.Its a little bullheaded for us to out of spite say nah we dont want no help since yall never helped from the fucking experts who get paid to tinker with video games.trust me if we can get pros to play test this game.We could have easily gotten them to come together and make another addition to this game that was just as enamoring as 3s.
The main problem is we got waay too many detractors trying to say fuck sf3 let that shit die.Same dudes who said that were probably happy as shit to see and HD sf2 (ignore those folks) until they found out shit got changed.
.The gift and the curse of sf is the fact no two games are alike simply because each game jumps five years or so into the future making new characters.Its easier to build on KOF simply because your getting gradual updates and subtle system implemenation the whole time. With SF we didn’t get that.We went from sagat shootouts and rush down deaths. To Straight up Fights that looked like something out of Tenjue Tenge or BAKI .SF3 emphasised more on actual fighting simply because majority of the cast does not have a projectile. So Parrying was neccesary to implement .It was supposed to be a new game for a new gen that was about to be dominated by Tekken ,SC.Thats why they made a dramatic change.Capcom was MJ faced with a young kobe and A.I .
Its because language is vague. I’m sure you can agree that the ‘art’ in martial arts is very different than the ‘art’ in Rembrandt. Its just not the same thing.
“What is art” discussions always get a bit messy, so hoity-toity language ahead 
They’re not creative in that they’re essentially applying a series of learned moves/techniques to a (these days usually sport) combat situation. When I say ‘creative’ I mean that you’re applying techniques to actualize some internal or external vision, and to create some end product. The point in say karate isn’t to create a product, its to win. Same with sports (or the actual playing of sports, lets leave promotion and such out of it).
Again though, it gets hard because the language is so vague. You can talk about ‘creative play’, but it just doens’t mean the same thing as writing a song, or even making the game itself.
The gain thing is iffy though, Trying to stick to the definition above, your gain has to be more than a 'diversion', or has to be practical. A bit of community fame doesn't cut it, nor does a sponsorship unless they're either paying you directly beyond travel costs, or you're winning a LOT of the tourneys you're getting comped for. It's still essentially a diversion, something for enjoyment.