I did not state that random casual players do not like FA, I stated that good, experienced players do not. You do not matter, in this sense. Marvel vs Capcom 1/2/3 are not SF games, I suppose this is clear. 3S has little to do with CE, HF, S2, ST, or even A2 or the EX series.
Compare the SF hitboxes you see at the Super Turbo wiki, or with Dammit’s hitbox viewer, with what happens in SF4, and the frame data (everything: start-up, active, recovery, freeze, block and hitstun, speed, jumps), and it will be clear why they are completely different. The results you get out of buttons, moves, specials and setups are all different, for no real reason but the SF4 developers not really knowing how they worked before. Their original plan was actually not using hitboxes, but 3D model collisions. They had no clue.
Obviously it isn’t balanced. It would take an idiot to try to dispute this*. My opinion on the matter is “it’s not nearly as bad as Sirlin makes it to be”.
Sirlin wasn’t critiquing Capcom for not rebalancing, he was critiquing what he perceives as the general attitude in the 3rd Strike community of not wanting a rebalance, in lieu of perfecting the gameplay. (all in his opinion)
If they rebalance it (either by doing it “right,” or just using minor, conservative tweaks for safety) and release an arcade version, so that the community is not only kept united, but a bit re-boosted, I believe most of them would love it. People are not as bitter as some make it look like. The community certainly made mistakes, such as whining about prefectly fine tweaks in certain console ports, and it was also mostly ignorant on the differences of the early, SNES-era ports, with animations and moves completely missing. But it does not mean people reject change no matter what.
I disagree with the rep system (too many premiums were fanboys), but that was certainly a great, accurate post.
Edit:
So they can play at home, against the CPU, the way I can already do by using ElSemi’s emulator? My point was simple: the main, undeniable appeal of the game is that it will be the one best way of playing 3S online.
This would SO happen if they were to “balance” 3S at this day and age. Capcom today is just weird when it comes to balance look at how SF4 ended up and how MVC3 will end up. I’m all for new people getting into said games and what not but a majority of them will never stack up to those that really put in the time and effort to get the tech and level up. Yet I can’t support constant balancing because it costs too much money for the buyer and the company. Just because some scrubs can’t level up those that put in work have to suffer with their BS. " I can’t win vs this character, (s)he’s broken. That character need a nerf because I keep losing. This one needs a buff because my tech sucks and I can’t win" All I can say is scrubs level up all the time you spend bitching is the time you can using to get better.
hahaha… you 3S players wanted a playable, online-capable version of your favorite game and then you got what you wanted. it’s your own damn fault. wait, what?
btw, can you guys clamor for an ST with the OE treatment?
You were six years old when this game was released.
Shut the fuck up.
This, agreed.
The port of this game is good. I’m not going to complain about it. I would like to see the HUD changed back, but if it doesn’t, fuck it… I have 3S on a modern console, even if the online mode is lacking. Meh, game’s fine. I don’t see why people are still complaining about this… AND making new threads about it.
A mod needs to get their ass over to the 3S strat section. There’s about 5 threads going on over there, and some need to be just locked and shut up. It’s getting serious…
I don’t know about that. Technology moves a lot faster these days then it did back in the ps2 Dark Ages. Youtube has plenty to do with that, in addition to the increasing prestige and global scope of tournies.
I’d say that the 6 month point in a fighter in 2011 is equivalent to the 3 year point in a ps2 Dark Ages fighter in terms of what tourney players know about a game.
Also, how long is too long or too short in terms of buffs/nerfs? Take HDR Akuma- some people were saying he was fine even after people said he should be banned.
Then, you have those folks with their selfish agendas who want things kept to their advantage even if the game suffers.
Oh, yeah. And if they want to have a HDR version too, with minor changes, old characters included again, GGPO instead of backbone’s code and an arcade port, that’s also fine. I just wanted a version with the classic game, the way it played (HDR for XBox360 had it), but also the way it sounded and looked (read old backgrounds, char sprites and music by default in classic mode). Also, a mode/option so we could have Grand Master Challenge settings instead (minor dizzy difference, different voices for some specials and Gief’s dizzy headbutt) would be welcome.
I highly doubt that the majority of the 3S purists are really that vehemently against balancing. The problem comes when people from outside the 3S community come in and say “No, you’re doing it wrong. You should be playing like THIS.”
Even if the community was a monolithic anti-balancing entity, the pro-balancing contingent for newer, more popular games (the ones Sirlin should be more concerned with balancing) will always be bigger. It’s like Sirlin looked at the participants in the Scrubquotes thread and thought that it represented the whole 3S community.
What kind of retort is this? The persons age doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that everyone acknowledges clear imbalance in certain matchups and that it’s insane to try and defend it.
Telling people who are of a different generation that they “need to face reality” calls for that sort of retort. It’s a completely different culture that a person that was 6 at its beginnings doesn’t know about.
You want a real retort? Fine…
@Nini Heart:
The culture of gamers that existed in the turn of the century in the competitive FG scene didn’t care as much for balance. We learned to overcome our obstacles and found a fun time and a great game to do it in. Regardless of imbalance, the game is revered by many vets who have played it for 12 years. We don’t want any changes. We would have been happy with the old art / music, even if they were good redraws and remixes. In one way it’s a nostalgic thing to have something that we loved when we were in high school. In another way, we didn’t spend 12 years learning a game to have it change on us. We’re not of the SF4 “change this change that” style. We played and learned 1 game. It’s why a revision like SF3:3S Upper was frowned upon. Rebalancing the game invalidates 12 years of knowledge, that most wouldn’t be willing to part with. Imagine getting your doctorate and being told that “all the information that you just put into your dissertation is wrong. Your field changed completely over the last week.”
It basically depends on the scale of the balancing right now IMO it needs to stop. Just because from what you said 6 months maybe equivalent to 3 years of raw tech. Yet think about how many new players are gonna stop getting their asses handed to them online to stop and watch pros explain and break down the raw tech so they can really get better. I met quite a few players online that quit playing because they didn’t like losing even if it was a legit lost because they messed up. The mentality of players is way different they were in the dark ages. Back then people hunted for some new tech, and were very willing to do work hard to level up and get better.
These days the casual market just wants that victory they don’t want to pratice, level up, create their own tech, etc. All they want is the win and when they don’t get it because a better player comes along they don’t blame themselves they blame the game first. The casual players start to get left in the dust because the future pros and current pros start leaving them exposed that their once great tactics make them a complete fraud. So what do they want they want shit to change so they can win which I can see yet I can’t support. Yes you can now start to win with these nerfs/buffs yet they forget the pros will always be that. Balancing a game can’t change the fact a scrub will lose vs a pro a majority of the time.
I can see that people would just want to abuse godlike shit in games because everything now has some sort of tournament with companies sponsoring players and said players want cash. Why use something that you like when this can net you easy money I can see that’s why some people looking from outside will said that shit is broken and needs balancing. Yet until said people from the outside play the game or at the most understand fully how the game works they really should shut up about the balancing issue because in the long run it hurts everybody.