Sirlin.net: "The Anti-Progress Attitude"

[Nubilous]

The folks he is losing respect from, are folks who no one should give a shit whether they respect you or not. They’re the Tea Partiers of the FGC, and yeah, I went there.

If anything, those folks should be laughed at.

folk

[de_BLOO]

When I found out Capcom was releasing 3rd strike on consoles, I wanted to play 3rd strike on my console. And now I am.

[arstal]

“They’re not changed to appeal to the worst whiners. Beyond that, they’re not necessarily worse, but people strongly resist change.”

The problem here is that there’s an accepted narrative, and its so firmly ingrained/subjective that it’s impossible to get to the core of the issue. I’ll grant you that the AE changes were kind of insane, though.

When does it stop being whining and start being legitimate criticism? 3 months, 6 months, 10 years?
Take the Akuma HDR ban- that took 2 majors, which I think is fair. What if HDR had fixed Akuma, and fixed the other problems with another patch? (Backbone wouldn’t allow it, they were too busy ruining other ports)

When does it become “too old to change?” 98UM was released in 2008- that was 10 years as well.
98UM changes were well received, and even Krauser wasn’t nearly as bad as the tops before that.

Ask for arcade 3rd Strike with GGPO

If you want 3rd Strike to be changed, you’re asking for a new game and NO ONE IS AGAINST A NEW SF3 GAME

They would be once their Yuns/Chuns started losing more due to nerfs to them and buffs to other characters, same reason ST purists shat on HDR.

[Hee_Haw]

One time I blew up Daigo and he got salty and went on blast and it was hype.

[dayday]

Why do lames keep saying HDR flopped and was a failure nobody wanted?
http://www.capcom-unity.com/johndmoney/blog/2008/12/18/super_street_fighter_ii_turbo_hd_remix_achieves_record_breaking_sales
Revisionist history.

I bought 3SOE, but would rather it had been redone just for the sake of everybody starting from scratch.
Sirlin is correct about the purist, there is a whole other thread blasting Derek Neal saying the 3SOE is worse than the PS2 version.
Purists are going to be upset no matter unless you deliver a Astro Cab to their house.

[Hee_Haw]

NOTHING IS SAFE IN THIRD STRIKE!

NOTHING!!!

[MrRoboto]

Oops sirlin did it againn. Poorly written article with false information. He must be a real pro if he thinks the game has no zoning. And if he says he knows about japan why would he even write this p.o.s anyway? Complaining about balance like he even knows shit about 3s, the game is great as it is it. High level players have already debunked everything he has to say about the balance of the game. Go watch some videos, inform yourself before starting useless arguments. Or better yet go and “Anal-lyze” some stuff that isn’t related to fighting games.

[dayday]

instead of crying about chuns and yuns, how about you stop mindfucking yourself and just play the game. if a player is better than you, beating you with chun/yun/ken, maybe you should spend less time pleading for a rebalance online, and spend more time practicing the matchups. people act like the japan tournament results are just random yuns/chuns and not some of the best players in the world.

This is just stupid.
Madden is always unbalanced, it is trying to emulate the real teams.
When they put 85 Bears on there or All Madden team, if you were leagues ahead of the guy you were playing you can beat them with a regular or cheap team, that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a 10-0 matchup. If somebody is good, all the practice in the world ain’t going to make it an impossible task in any game.

The shit is handicaps that people want fixed for the sake of variety.
I don’t think every game should be all 5-5 either, that would be dull as hell.

[toddler316]

I think I failed to understand the topic of this thread. Is anyone willing to enlighten me?

it seems this discussion has changed its target topic often.

That is a simple one,Daivd Sirlin is a jackass and every time he says anything it is to stir shit up which is funny because it always works.
Then add a dash of fanboi bias and you have all the HDR vs ST threads all over again except it is in the form of 3SOE.

[Hee_Haw]

Let’s get it on now.

Choose and pick your best Chun.

[Hee_Haw]

Five four three two one.

edit: Your best Yun.

[Crashd]

Let’s get it on now.

Choose and pick your best Chun.

What have we got here, a fucking comedian? I admire your honesty. Hell, I like you, you can come over to my house and fuck my sister!

[details=Spoiler]

http://ecdn2.hark.com/images/000/001/622/1622/original.jpg

**You little scumbag! I got your name! I got your ass! You will not laugh! You will not cry! You will learn by the numbers. I will teach you! Now get up! Get on your feet! You had best unfuck yourself or I will unscrew your head and shit down your neck![/details]

[deteknician]

I don’t know Sirlin personally but judging by his books, articles and things he says it’s clear that he’s a complete moron with the intellect of a split pea. It’s also clear that half of the kids on this board, sitting in their parents’ house, still trying to learn basic algebra and spelling have a better understanding of strategy, video games and life than him.
I don’t think having a balanced fighting game where only the players’ skill decides his/hers success rather than the character is boring.

With that said I understand that fans of the original don’t want it rebalanced and I respect that.

[Hee_Haw]

Sirlin writes articles?

[EcKo_Zero_Cool]

i dont think sf4 should have focuse attacks thats just my opnion.

anyway isnt sirlin the guy who made sf hdr ?

[Hee_Haw]

No.

[Hee_Haw]

People love this thread for its flaws. No need to remix it.

[oldschool_BR]

SSFIV: AE12 should remove the focus attack, you know, just because it might be worth trying.

You do not seem to know what you are talking about, because that is obvious. It should have never been included, in the first place: the counter to well placed pokes should be postioning or other moves from youself. CC/VC/Excel aside, it is the most stupid mechanic in a SF game. I can admit - but not agree with - canceling moves into dashing, for the sole reason that at least it takes bar, but having a mechanic that negates pokes is dumb. There exists no SF player that likes that thing, the best you will ever hear is some of the old players saying they think it is “OK”.

Remove focus attack, it would be worth trying;
Remove 2-button throws, it would be worth trying;
Remove one of the bars, remove the supers, have just the ultra - or the other way around, perhaps a better idea - and not bar for getting wacked, it would be worth trying;
Get the SF4 hitboxes back to SF ones, it would be worth trying;
Get Ono away from any fighting game in the future, it would be worth trying.

Projectiles are stupid in 3rd Strike in 95% of the situations, EX ones aside. This is a fact. What you can - and should - argue is that is how the game is, and you should have a perfect port of it. Either that, or it is not 3rd Strike, make it 4th whatever, and do not split an already not big player base.

[jae_hoon]

I like 3S and I did get 3S online.

1. 3S is poorly balanced but people already know that. It is not however the most unbalanced game ever as people try to exaggerate. If you really think it is go play Tekken 4. Hell even his own game HDR is not balanced, Akuma is just as broken in HDR if not more so. For all those people who do like to claim that 3S is balanced because of so and so placing with X shitty character here, it is different in japan for one big reason people do not think about. Matches are best 1 out of 1, there is no 2 out of 3 for most of their tournaments so you are more likely to have different results. Hell even the guys who played those character freely admit their characters are not up to par and of course what has already been mentioned most of those players are absurdly good. Just because Daigo could beat 90 percent of the players in the world in SF4 with Dan, doesn’t mean you could.

2. I honestly would not have got the game if it wasn’t a true port or at least as close to a true port as they could get. I knew what it was and I did not want it changed. The game is aged to say the least and should be left as is. If they want to make a new one that is all well and good but don’t change a game that is already that old. I am even all for the updates they do to the newer games but even those come with some rushed decisions that really do not need to be made or are poorly thought out. Ex - MvC3 Sentinel, there was this big push to get him nerfed because of his health not realizing his health was half the point to playing him. Then he got nerfed(which I was fine with nerfing him but I think they went to far) and almost everyone dropped him immediately. IMO they rushed to nerf him based more on caving into what people thought then what the actual truth was. Would Sent be good if they wouldn’t have, you damn right. I do not think he would be broken like alot of people were trying to portray it though.

3. Really people are taking this opportunity to bash on Sirlin more then anything else. I have nothing against the man and I do not know him to pass judgement. Yeah HDR was a piece of shit but he really did try and there was alot of positive hype around it for along time. Of course he tried to keep it all positive and say the game was alot better then people gave it credit. It is his own baby, he isn’t going to come out and say it is a piece of shit when he created it and is trying to sell it. I do feel alot of his argument was not well constructed and disagreed with it. However pick on the argument itself not the man making it. Obviously not everyone in the thread has done the above that I said but it is obvious a few of people are. I have read alot of his articles some are very good, and some I strongly disagree with(him calling GG XX I believe the most balanced FG ever was laughable at best.)

Yes I realize my answer is full of run on sentences and grammatical and probably a few spelling errors. I just wanted to make to say my piece and be done with it. There are some really good posts in this thread though and I tried to like most of them.

I can see the point he was making, he just went about it in what seems to be the wrong way imo.

Ninja Edit: And yes Focus Attacks should die in the herpes infested fire it came from. Fucking god I hate that damn mechanic.

Also the guy who said Garou is unbalanced is insane. Yeah Kevin is by far tops but the game is insanely well balanced.

[RayK]

I don’t know Sirlin personally but judging by his books, articles and things he says it’s clear that he’s a complete moron with the intellect of a split pea.

He has a mathematics degree from MIT and has actually created a lot of interesting, balanced, competitive games. Having a differing opinion, however different, does not make someone an idiot in a civilized person’s mind.

I understand the argument Sirlin is making and, in my opinion, it really isn’t that poor. Though the realization of a 3s rebalance would most likely lead to unintended consequences. On top of this, anyone who cares about 3s likes it how it is. There is really nothing else to say.