Do you think someone will take the time to hack this rom and do balance changes and add some more character colors? Just how in depth would that have to be for such an archaic game?
I love HD remix, but a simple ST re-balance would be a nice way to spend some gaming time.
You can’t fix perfection.
/close thread.
Claw walldive loop… rly?
It’s not really a loop. It’s a series of 50/50 cross ups that are not free to repeatedly execute. Considering that ST has multiple touch of death combos for most of the cast off of a single knockdown or guessed jump from the front, the presence of Claw’s off the wall tactics aren’t really bothersome to me. How can you complain about Claw having to set up multiple dives in a row when Dictator can win the entire round off of just one single knockdown and cross up?
Dictator only has to force his opponent to guess wrong just once and he wins if you can execute the touch of death. Claw players must have their opponent guess wrong at each exchange. And while the wall dive is easier to execute than Dictator’s touch of death, the wall dive barrage isn’t as easy as everyone always screams that it is.
Dictator often gets a chance at ending the round based off of one wrong guess by the opponent after a knockdown. With Claw’s off the wall dives you have a 50/50 guess at every exchange. You’ve got a 50/50 shot of guessing which way to block each time and if you guess wrong you don’t lose your entire health bar like you would against Dictator. Not only that but even the best Claw players can’t make every wall dive truly ambiguous. If you pay attention you can read which way the dive is coming from and block accordingly. And even if you can’t the odds of getting hit by three or four dives in a row isn’t enough to warrant as much complaining as people do about the wall dive. It’s hardly an inescapable sequence and really how often do top Claw players win using nothing but wall dives?
The biggest example of a wall dive massacre was Tokido versus Choi at EVO2007. Yet that was on CCC2, a port which was proven to have extra lag, and those matches were on Zangief’s stage which allegedly causes input errors as well. Trying to block wall dives in CCC2 is like playing under lag tactics conditions and is hardly indicative of how effective wall dives are on an arcade board or without extra input delay.
Are wall dives good? Absolutely without question. Are they annoying? Hell yeah. Is Claw a top tier character? Yes he is that bastard, but ST is more of a match up based game anyways so that doesn’t bother me. Is ‘hyou bal’ style play boring? Lots of people seem to hate it, but I find it very exciting actually, it shows how brutal and unforgiving ST is. Are wall dives overpowered? I would argue, like I did above, that they are not really overpowered.
How can a stage cause input delay or errors?
Yeah, you’re right. I’m just salty about it, and it’s probably hypocritical of me because I main Dic.
Emulation issues. If you play CCC2 enough, you’ll also encounter crazy glitches that don’t occur in the arcade like characters getting stuck in midair.
Anyway, CCC2 also runs faster than arcade and all forced guessing games benefit when there’s less ability to react.
Not disagreeing with you VF4, but some time around '06 or '07 there was a period where Mikado vids were coming out of Noguchi raping people with endless walldive loops. I can’t look up the exact vids right now, but from memory Kurahashi @ Guile/Ryu was getting owned pretty badly. Or maybe not and my memory just sucks.
Anyway it’s interesting to contrast ARG and MAO’s styles against Noguchi’s walldive-based game.
There was never a time when Noguchi was killing everyone with wall dives (well, maybe against Guile but he doesn’t do much of the actual loop there). I started using claw around that time and noticed that claw players rarely won tourneys (before ARG started killing last year). Plus, Noguchi tends to use safe, efficient methods to win; it’s not “wall dive all day” except against characters and situations where that strategy is optimal (e.g. Ryu knocked down).
If anything, it was around that time when zass mentioned that some JP players didn’t like claw. Even though he couldn’t rationalize it himself, a wave of anti-o.Sagat and claw sentiment nevertheless came in, along with erroneous beliefs like claw being soft-banned in Japan (despite appearing in pretty much every major JP tourney). I don’t really think claw needs wall dive knockdowns but if that was ever edited out, they should get rid of all the other loops as well (which HDR doesn’t really do).
I find throw loops, which I admit to abusing at every opportunity, far more annoying than ambiguous wall dives. Holds do way too much damage in ST.
bring hd remix to ggpo(impossible thing), with ST old inputs, fixed netcode but keeping the HD’s rebalance and end of the story.
If ST’s ROM ever gets hacked, this is what I would like to see:
Ken, Sagat and Dhalsim have reversal Supers
Hawk’s DP bug fixed
Fixed DP input windows (doesn’t matter to me if it’s consistently 8 frames or 12 frames, just as long as it’s consistent, but less than 12 frames for sure, preferably 10)
All DPs knock down on the 1st hit
Crazy Kicks have HDR inputs
CPS1 BGM and sound FX (would be a nice option)
Beyond that, nothing really crucial that needs to be changed IMO. Oichio not being storeable and Wall Dives not knocking down would be cool too, but I could live with that.
well more:
@people in this thread-
st is not archaic, hacking rom’s is stupid.
wall dives are not a loop since you can stop them by just blocking the correct way and is only effective on certain characters more than others, throw traps take risky strict timing and can be countered when both players know what they are doing
honda’s super is very useful if you use it correctly, if you practice crazy kicks the way they are you will have no problem with them
if you take the time to learn things and practice before you throw your hands up and say something should be changed, you will have a very rewarding experience with this game
ps this site has gone to hell
You were doing fine up until the last comment. They site has gone to hell because people (many of which are relatively new players) are asking questions and discussing things?
No one can ever match up to your high standards…
well if i was the only person that felt this way you could probably call me an a**hole,
we used to have people like nohoho and nki posting in here every day, talking about strategies and things that matter and make sense, they got pushed away by waves of misinformation and complaints
tell me this is better sir
It’s true that NKI and nohoho don’t post any more, and it’s sad. But there is still a lot of knowledge being dropped, it’s just mixed in with discussions amongst people who don’t usually have the same level of knowledge as NKI and nohoho. So it’s not as “pure”, but the fact that there is discussion at all levels means more players rather than less, so we should be grateful for it.
It just seems like you like to drop in every month and make a post about how the scene “isn’t what it used to be”… it comes across as elitist and doesn’t really help.
geo, i have no issue with you whatsoever and have never directed negativity towards you like you have to me repeatedly
to state that i am hating on srk because “new players are discussing and asking questions” is a rude distortion of my post and deserves an apology, really
call me names or whatever makes you feel good, but people know they can ask me questions on ggpo or wherever i am and i will do my best to help you out, i am not the greatest player in the world but i try to help.
your right on a certain level, i do believe we as a community could do much better than this, I dont know what the answer is, but im pretty sure just going with the current flow aint gonna cut it
What I object to is this and your comment above that “this site has gone to hell”.
It does come across as elitist and it doesn’t help. Maybe you’ve contributed some amazing things in the past (I admit I don’t know), but it seems like everything you post on this board is in the above vein.