Fighting from the corner may be a little better for Ryu than Dhalsim because his DP is a lot more of a threat to the wall dive, and jump kicking comes out a lot faster than Dhalsim’s air attacks do. Dhalsim’s jump itself is slow as molasses so as counter/reaction to wall dive it isn’t much of an option. Things like standing jab (chop or other straight one) don’t tend to work out, just occasionally (at best it’s a complex read and gotta be accurate and I really haven’t gotten it to work or seen anyone just stop claw from doing more wall dives). Same with slides- I really don’t think this is much of an option as it has never worked out in my favor as sim, even when I do manage to hit with it once in a while. As for up-flames, it may stop claw from going off his far wall, but he still can get sim (as I described last post) by reacting to it in real time and steer far enough away, yet close enough to reach with the claw before landing-- while by comparison, Ryu’s counter with his DP doesn’t have that problem AND it has the added bonus of reducing the guess of which way to counter DP (…I think).
Even if the wall dive is stopped, claw still has a couple of other corner traps without it, whether vs. Ryu or Dhalsim. However if you manage to do better from the corner, by all means try it out. Without a wake-up attack I think Dhalsim is still susceptible to the wall dive even if by block damage… also I kind of get the sense that, if it’s effective and claw wants sim out of the corner, it’ll happen but maybe that’s just in my head. I know sometimes I kinda WISH I was in the corner to be able to block the wall dive a lot easier when I’m getting wall dived to death, but when I am in the corner it’s not much more fun there really and simply GETTING THERE does not really happen very often. You are slow and he is fast. You have to predict and he can react. If the corner IS indeed better for Dhalsim, it’s tough to get there. If you make it there and let’s say you even have a lead on life meter, please tell me what happens.
As for Dhalsim’s slide, I think part of it is that you’re already low on the screen for a certain number of frames so the claw will know to delay his arm spread part of the wall dive-- even if you stand up or do some upper attack, first you still must recover from the slide and go through some number of start-up frames of that subsequent move but basically, I think he can react and just hit deep/late as he comes down. If you have what you think is a counter I’m interested in more detail but I think it also takes a guess at which wall (near wall or far wall) he’ll go off of and if you’re wrong you can wind up sliding too early/late or get behind him-- again I think this also has to do with the amount of steering control he has during the entire part of the move when he’s bounced off the wall that affect things so negatively for you. It’s mostly my experience telling me, ok either the claws I’ve played are reading my mind like 90 to 95+% of the time, or it’s just not a valid strategy/counter.
What I am asking about is prolly not optimal tactics/positioning. Just wondering if success by being backed into the corner and playing reactive defensive (not rush down drill/slide noogie) has been had by anyone (most matches do not prove it to be so). Just looking at all possible angles.
Does the Teleport have a variable frame input, like shoto dps? I haven’t read that it does, but it is the one thing that I am still have a bit of trouble getting out consistently. Maybe I am not pushing the buttons all on the same frame. Does 3 button plinking have the same effect? I think I just naturally plink Fierce when I hit all 3 punch/kick buttons.
The shoryuken does not have a randomly variable input window. Sirlin was wrong in most his assumptions about special inputs. You just have a set time to enter each next direction, as soon as you have entered the previous one. As long as you are not holding the first direction for several frames (e.g. walk-up SRK) you should get it every time.
Oldschool is correct, the random input window was probably mistaken for the frameskip. With frameskip on, the number of frames to do the SRK can be variable, but that goes for any move.
There is no random input window. When you turn frameskip off the game decrements a counter a after you do the initial startup for a move ( :f: for srk, :d: for a fireball etc…) per frame. When frameskip is on, this counter can be decremented by values of 2 or even 3 sometimes, causing the input window to seem variable. It’s all due to the frameskip, not the input window. This applies to all moves, not just the SRK.
Interesting slide to avoid getting hit by the full super, giving him time to walk up and throw. It looks like it’s even possible to slide to close distance, into super, when Bison does a super into the corner.
I have an idea for this thread that could be a useful reference. damdai said in his OHawk Super Saturday video that he classifies a good jump-in as being one that can beat Dhalsim’s slide. I thought about this and when you’re playing Sim you really need to know which normals to use for anti-air. Slides will work for a lot of jump attacks in the game, so it might be easier to remember which ones you cannot slide.
I’m gonna try to go off the top of my head here, so if I miss any or if it sounds inaccurate, post up.
These jumping normals can beat Dhalsim’s slides
Boxer – j. fierce/roundhouse
OHawk (and New?) – j. fierce
Guile – neutral j. fierce, j. forward
N. Ken – j. forward
Fei – j. forward
Cammy – neutral j. strong, j. strong
Blanka – j. short, j. forward, j. roundhouse, j. fierce
Honda – j. short, j. forward & splash
Zangief – j. down+forward (knees), (do short knees beat slide too? fierce splash?)
Chun – j. forward & headstomp
Dee Jay – neutral j. roundhouse
Dictator – j. forward
Claw – j. forward, j. roundhouse (not sure about this)
There are also some jumping normals that might snag a slide if it’s poorly timed or possibly the tail end of it. These are mostly xup normals like Dee Jay’s j. forward.
Some normals you listed can only beat Sim’s slide if they actually hit Sim’s head. This means they wont work from far. I’m not 100% sure but i believe that N.Ken’s j.Forward can only hit the slide if it hits at Dhalsim’s Head and only during the first active frames.
Zangief: he can hit Sim’s slide cleanly with d.j.short, d.j. forward and forward knees. Short knees can hit Sim’s Head, but not his legs. Everthing else always loses.
N.Hawk: Fierce can only hit Sim’s head, not his legs.
Hey guys. I just started trying to learn how to play Sim. He’s pretty fun to use, but requires a lot of patience, fast reflexes, and it’s almost a requirement to play him to perfection in order to even start to accumulate wins with him. Can’t make a single mistake with this character, and I love it.
Anyways, I have some questions regarding how his teleports work. I understand that the kick version travels the furthest towards or away, and the punch version gets you closer, but how does that change relative to how close the opponent is? I’ve been trying to teleport to avoid Honda’s buttslam in the corner in certain situations, but it doesn’t quite seem to work half the time. Is there something I’m doing wrong? Or am I inputting it incorrectly?
I’m not a Sim player, but maybe I can offer some input. Are you doing reversal Teleport? I’m sure you already know about that glitch.
AFAIK, the Punch Teleport travels towards the opponent the farthest (about 3/4 screen distance, if the opponent is full screen away). Kick Teleport will go towards the opponent about half screen distance. As for the Teleports away from the opponent, I’m not sure which travels farther, but I think Punch travels farther back than Kick.
IDK if opponent’s proximity changes the distance travelled, it might.
I know about the glitch. It doesn’t work on reversal right? Some other move comes out instead?
Yeah, I can’t quite nail down how teleport works. It seems like KICK teleport goes the furthest distance away. So if you’re on 1p side and you do the teleport motion backwards, you won’t travel very far forward. But if you do the motion towards your opponent, it will travel farther behind him depending on how close you are. At least that’s how I figured it.
This trick seems useful if you have a Honda who’s going for the buttslam constantly in the corner.
A reversal Teleport doesn’t travel anywhere, you re-appear in the same spot.
I think you might be right about Kick Teleport travelling behind, I know one of them does. I gotta jump back into training mode and figure them out again (ST wiki says Kick Teleport towards will go behind the opponent).
I read that part of the wiki, and it seems to work whenever I’m caught in the corner, and go for a non-reversal teleport. I just think I’m still trying to wrap my head around using teleport like this. In newer games, the teleport function works differently since punch/kick functions are reversed.
I’ve just found out how it works.
[LIST=1]
[]If you get hit and the screen does not scroll, reversal teleport does not go behind the opponent. You only teleport away from him;
[]If the screen scrolls (horizontally), then reversal teleport works as intended.
[/LIST]
When you are in the corner, the screen never scrolls, and you only teleport away from the opponent. However, since you can’t actually teleport any further from him, you stay in place
We should recall that this screen scroll phenomenon is not new in ST. Cammy’s abillity to land her short kick aerial cross-up depends on whether the screen scrolls or not, just before she jumps.
