Just because you don’t like the playstyles in KOF and GG means that you can demean it and call it “one-dimensional”. There’s plenty of strategy to be found in both titles if you’re willing to give it a chance. It’s not like these are 3D fighters where you can mash buttons and get instant combos…('cept VF, which is the only 3D fighter that doesn’t follow that.)
Agree with this post…hence thats my concern, why I’m focusing on my own stuff (My SNK Major in certain locations with serious players NOT 2 week/3 hour OR 5-6 month dabblers that really would rather be playing something else) with people who will take it seriously…because I won’t waste my time if all I’m gonna get are pathetic ass KOFXII dabblers!! (they can’t fool me!)
So I’m right there with you!!! Repped.
Yeah pretty much.
But hey, I think they’re just enjoying their argument, those pissing on SF4 probably play it every night, but just need something to argue about cause … Face it, what else is there to do on a forum?
Seriously, I play Guilty Gear all of the time, against other people I may add. I know how to instant air dash, I can do baiken’s one frame j.d, I know all of her SJCs, I know about dash brakes, I have good air throw timing. It’s not like I haven’t put effort into the game, because buddy I’ve spent entire weekends up all night trying to get my execution and mixups on point with Baiken.
Not only that I’ve played Guilty Gear X in an arcade. I am an early supporter of the series. I know how the game is played.
and despite the fact that Baiken is an defensive character, I can go balls out with her. But she’s not really played well that way. She’s just more defensive than the rest of the cast, but no really a defensive character. Her guard cancels really only work on newbies, and while you can get a good pro player in her GCs occasionally, you can’t really rely on them. she has to play a semi-agressive, bait and counter style. And you’ll see top Baiken players (yeah I follow the GGXX tourney scene), that is the style they play with her.
Even characters who have good zoning in GGXX only use it to facilitate their pressure like Venom or Dizzy. Which is why GGXX will always be played less than SF games. Because you learn all of the little system mechanics (which honestly take less than a week), you basically know what your character needs to do.
I've played Dhalsim for years, and there are so many things you can pull off with him, and he has no FRCs, no 1 frame cancels, no airdashes, no nothing. He's not even that hard execution wise. But he is one character who employs an infinite amount of tactics. Street Figher is so simple that it doesn't bury it's playability under a bunch of features. The game relies soley on the ingenuity of the player, and not the player's exploitation of system mechanics.Well thats your opinion, I respect it…and in my opinion I find SF mad boring because its too simple…
I need more to hold my interest… 
Even 3s isn’t enough to hold my interests…
-DG
Except you singlehandedly derailed this thread and turned it into an SNK vs. Capcom debate.
Well its not like this thread had too much going for it anyways did it???
Seriously, I’m interested in knowing how Street Fighter is simple. It doesn’t have dashing, hyper hops, or short hops. But the game has it’s share of strategic depth making it not so simple. Or are you one of those people who naively believe “execution=depth” in a game?
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First off you have said its a simple game. Simple enough for everyone to get into…
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Which SF game are you talking about? Pick one. Simple to me is different/may be different than simple to you. To me just relying on footsies, parrying, UOHS, spacing, fireball traps, tick throws, pokes and reversals etc is simple to me (They are the fundamentals of fighting games)…not enough to hold my interest and thats across the board. But that’s me and everyone has their own opinion. It doesnt have to be execution high to get my attention, but I also like a lot of variety in the playstyles…not just your following types:
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Shoto
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Charge character
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Grappler
Sure you got some like Dhalsim that dont fall into that etc (He falls into the ZONER category)… but in addition to all this I dont like playing a game the same way I been playing it 10 years ago…that to me makes a game very simple…nostalgic yes, but simple, and can get stale very fast.
I need new things from time to time to keep my interest…hence yes I am even playing SFIV…so its not like I aint…and I can play 3s etc…
They just aren’t my mains…
-DG
I always end up playing gamnes no one plays. VF4/Evo to samsho 4 to kof98 to efz to hnk for a little bit and now to who knows what… I was super mega ultra hyped for sf4 but the game just isnt fun to me. I think it is a good template, if by template you mean the base engine and such, but that has little to do with how the game actually plays. On the positive side, SF4 outclasses WW, A1, and NG by a landslide. I think sf4ce will be a lot beter, but on the flipside I don’t know if they will change the things I would want them to change.
Shed your wisdom.
@Bguy, still sounds like to me a better understanding of ST than other games. There are a lot of small details in a lot of other games, even games with gratuitous amount of universal sub systems.
Yeah I can relate to this.
I’m really trying to like SF4 but it’s starting to dawn on me that it is really kind of boring. Maybe it’s just not my kind of game, I don’t know… :sad:
I don’t get in what regard you mean future games should be based on it?
but yeah, I know I’m in the minority but I don’t enjoy playing SF4. It plays like mud imo.
So from a gameplay standpoint, no I don’t want to see more games like it. Not even another street fighter
I think if reversal went back to 3s timing (3 frames I think? that was fair), they made blockstun the same as hitstun (right now it’s much less - 1/2 of hitstun +1 frame), and either made dashes faster overall or sped up walks (some dashes are fast like Cammy’s but most are a no-go), the game would already be 10x more fun right there. There’s a lot of other little shit but those are the main things.
Elena
Yun
Yang
Twelve
Necro
Oro
Ibuki
Makoto
Dhalsim
Cammy
Fei-Long
Rufus
Crimson Viper
Seth
Rose
Karin
Cody
Guy
Rolento
Sodom
Adon
Gen
Maki
None of those characters fall under the “three character types” blanket you used to generalize Street Fighter. You made it sound like there were three, maybe four characters who didn’t. I just gave you twenty-three. Also, let it be known that not all characters of a given type are created equal, especially charge characters. Try playing Urien like Blanka and see how far you get, kiddo.
[quote=“Ultima, post:324, topic:56603”]
Evo:
No one is talking to you child. Shut up.
QUOTE]
You’re taking shit and u dont have a clue what the fuck you’re talk about, u honestly consider the SF4 ultra system the best implementation of a "revenge"type system lol…
The funny thing is, that this thread is full of detractors who keep mentioning all of these other games. But you know what, a lot of these other game do nothing new. Capcom is the leading innovator in terms of games, and then after that it’s SNK. Really no other company is really all of that innovative.
Airdashes? Didn’t we have that back in 1994 in COTA. Who made that game?
IAD? It was in XvSF, made by what company?
Air combos? hmm? What company made the first game with that?
Jump cancel normals? what game were you first able to do that in?
all of the Melty Bloods and Guilty Gears that you guys are so willing to sit back and acclaim as innovative games all pretty much have borrowed elements from some Capcom game.
I love Guilty Gear, believe me I do. But the game has very little originality. Burst is a combo breaker, and that's from Killer Instinct. Air techs are from Alpha 3. The only thing that the game may have done that was rarely done before was roman cancles. Other than that, the game pretty much unify many things that were already seen before in a game, and simply refined it.
The only people really seeing Capcom in terms of innovation is SNK. Other than that there isn’t too much any company is doing to really mess with Capcom’s crown.
And Street Fighter IV, boring? lol, that’s funny. Do you actually play against other people who are your skill level or better? Or do you just play online against ken SRK spammers? Honestly, unless you play against other people, then you really have no business judging any fighting game.
Seems like people want fluff instead of new gameplay anyway. Complaining about artwork or characters not receiving new moves is nothing to complain about. I sure as hell can’t use Dhalsim in the same way I used him in ST or Alpha 3. I can’t use Guile that way either. A whole new mindset and new knowledge about the game is needed.
And focus attacks really do change footsies for SFIV, and anyone who plays SF know how important footsies are for the game.
SF is boring because you have to actually think to play it. In a lot of modern games as long as you know a 50 hit air combo, then it's all good. you can be the shittiest player in the world, be unsafe as fuck, but as long as you can land your big combo, then you get this idea that you're good. SF is one of those games that make it pretty fucking obvious that you're trash.That’s still not enough for me…and believe me I took into consideration the characters you just put up there… still not enough… I at least applaud SF3 for trying to go in a new direction and like the variety of playstyles in it, and I actually like SF Alpha (I like the Alpha series the most of all the SFs overall)!!!..so it kinda saddens me to see it revert back to the “SF2 favorites ONLY” in SF4…and not even a mix of SF2 and SF3 characters…I wouldve liked the mix more than “SF2 characters part Deux”
-DG
Yea, I play against people my own skill level. I just don’t think this game has the fire that ST, Alpha 2, or even cvs2 have. I’m not saying the game is a bad game. It is actually a very very good game. But at the same time it’s lame to play for me. The best comparison I can make is with samsho 5 special or akatsuki blitzkampf. Those are both good games but they are also boring, not that fun to play and easy to get burnt out on.
But KOF character archetypes aren’t anymore diverse. Hell, KOF doesn’t even have true grapplers.
I mean, Fatal Fury is really the only game I think you can really compare to Street Fighter. I mean I can see where many of the Fatal Fury characters play better under the system (like Blue Mary and Terry).
I’ve seen high level KOF matches and they’re fun as hell to watch. But basically the game looks like run, short hop block string. hyper hop back, blow back attack, roll evade all day long. I mean you may find that much more fun then figuring out how to get around zoning traps. But it doesn’t make the game more dynamic.