you will always find someone who wouldn be satisfied with the games, this thread is an example, but until now, i rarely found people bitching at the game on dustloop or other sites, so who knows
Could you be bothered to explain yourself for once?
Focus system is situational, clusmy and convuluted. Parrying is too good for the most part which in a way undermines several important features of the game. Breaking/feints are effortless and very effective and JD is just good but enought that the entire premise of the game is build around it…and just for once could u contribue something and not troll?
Evo:
No one is talking to you child. Shut up.
Dark Geese:
I don’t know why you’re bothering to tell me your life story, blah blah blah dabbler blah blah dick. As I said: Stop being butthurt because no one plays your games here.
But concerning Ultras vis-a-vis DMs, I’d like to address this. For the record, I used to be as big a hardcore SS player as I am a hardcore SF player (SF more than Capcom proper).
The traditional way SNK implemented DMs was to have access to unlimited DMs at low life. This was patently stupid, and it took years for SNK to realise that. They stopped using this system (not counting Extra mode in 98 or 98UM) since, what, KoF96? AoF3? Real Bout 2? I forget. Since KoF97, their DM system is much more of a super-based system, where characters have a super bar and gain stocks that they can keep. They kept the name “DM”, but they’re not really desperation moves at all in the classical sense.
With Capcom’s Ultras, though, they implemented it better in a number of ways: For one, it isn’t strictly tied to life, though most of the time you gain access to Ultra by getting beat up. If you’re skilled at using the Focus system you can gain access to it earlier, but regardless of skill, you get first access to it when you have 50% life. This is much more flexible than just getting it at, say, 25% life, the end.
Second, once you have it, you can either try and use it as soon as possible, or risk getting beat up further and, when you have around 5% life and gain access to a more powerful version. Using it ASAP gives you chance to build up a second one. It depends on the character and the player. The fact remains, you have a choice in what you want to do with it rather than just looking to land it ASAP, the end.
In comparing these two DM-type systems, Capcom’s got the advantage when you consider what they wanted to do - i.e., give the losing player a chance to come back. SNK’s system was way too powerful in that regard.
This isn’t to say the system is perfect. But as I said, it’s better than SNK’s equivalent implementations of the system.
Why couldn’t you be the right arm of shut the fuck up Voltron?
Exactly.
KOFXII will be hot for like 3 hours before everyone forgets about it and goes back to T6/SF4/HDR/Karnov
Man, I played some SF4 last night. What a great game.
the game is really fun if you have enough people to play, thats for sure
:sad:
I’d be amazed if KOF XII had much success in the US. Not that I wouldn’t be happy about it, bit I just don’t see it selling to anyone but fighting dorks like us.
How many times do I have to say it…I’m not butthurt and if you all don’t wanna play it fine…more money for me…To go to places like Mexico, CTF and AI where they are played seriously and stop wasting my time with scrubs, dabblers and other types here. :rolleyes:
I’ll go somewhere else and get what I want as I been doing…while most of you stay as sheep I’ll keep being the leader…(Right Virtua Leon too many sheeps and Japanese Tier jocks)
And I still feel that’s your opinion…you are stating it as if it’s fact…
For one DMs in SNK games are ultra risky so you got those noobs that will whore those DMs down the line all the time and get taken advantage of because they do just that.
Also have you played Tenka? I think Tenka’s implementation system of the “Ultras” etc is far better than SFIV’s. Not only are “parries” risky, but succsessful ones build up the EX meter like SFIVs and these EX supers dont do much damage and are risky! (Ultras do so much damage and fill up faster than Supers it becomes the goal of the game like OLD SCHOOL SNK GAMES LOL) Ontop of this when you get to the green you can only use EX meter once per like 5 seconds, so there is a delay.
Ontop of this if you are REALLY SKILLED, you can parry your way beyond 50% EX meter to where it will encompass your entire health…but I have yet to see anyone that good. So you wanna say SFIV’s system is better than the SNK equivalent? The earlier ones absolutely…but current?? I dont think so. (Ultras do too much damage and not only that but build up faster than the super meter!!! wtf?)I mean correct me if I’m wrong, but the goal in SF4 really is to hit as many Ultras as possible…thats nothing new to an SNK player, let them keep on doing that and they will see how risky it is!!! Now dont get me wrong…I like SF4 better than all the other SF’s combined…but once again thats because I’m a hardcore SNK player.
So maybe Capcom should look at Tenkas system and see what they did and tweak Ultras building up so damn fast, and tweak the damage of Ultras!!
So in summary, please go on keep playing Capcom games all of you…just keep giving me your money and others your money while I go to Mexico and other places!!! 
-DG
This thread his hilarious.
Well, then, I guess that answers that question.
Ooooh…you got me there.
Any fighting game out there need to follow Capcom’s example period. Because a lot of other franchises fail to do with Capcom does. you can talk all you want about innovation, capcom playing it “safe”, and all sorts of things. But when Capcom does a game they do a game right.
It’s true, in KOF games characters get new moves. What people tend to not understand that these are just desperate gimmicks to make it appear that a character plays differently. most of the time it’s wasteful. They either underpower a character or overpower them. and KOF, in all it’s glory and innovation always rely on a one-size-fit all strategy. Don’t get me wrong, I like KOF (well KOF 2002 and 98), but KOF games are known for their brokeness, their glitches, their bugs, their balance issues, and other issues. SNK always add new things to games, but overall SNK is bigger on gimmicks than gameplay.
which is why I still love Capcom. Because Capcom focus on what is really important, Gameplay. ST was an incredibly simple game to pick up, but still people are learning more and more about the game even today. Are people still discovering new things about Melty Blood ReAct? How about Guilty Gear Slash?
Yeah, all of these other games may have more in them, but they really have less. Many games do have a lot of features, and some even have damn good balance. but this is done by homogenizing the entire roster. Or even forcing you to play a certain way. It’s no wonder why it’s generally so easy to pick up on these games, and then eventually evolve the game to a level where you can’t evolve them anymore. I love Accent Core, but it’s unlikely I’ll see anything new in a GGXXAC tourney. and that’s face. It’s because these games are all about big features and low on subtleties.
Capcom games are played for years for one reason, and one reason alone. Capcom games evolve almost every year. New stuff is found in the game, which make the game playable for years on end. What’s the last KOF game that was like that? what was the last Guilty Gear that was like that? These games may take a year tops to really get everything you need to get from these games.
Other game companies are about gimmicks and features, and Capcom is all about gameplay. There isn't a lot of wasted stuff in Capcom games. They just don't include stuff in their games just so players can think they're doing something but yet be doing nothing.
With every Capcom game, there are always things added to the game, and somethings are overpower (Custom Combos), but there will always be ways to counter something in a Capcom game. It took years to evolve Marvel, XvSF, 3s, ST, HF, the list goes on. Capcom produce legendary classics. and the only reason why they are timeless and legendary is because the minute you think you got a Capcom figured out, there is a whole different aspect you need to learn.
Capcom games have always been deceptively simple. But if you change a move property or priority, you change the entire game and how your character is played. which is why you don’t play ST Ryu like HF Ryu, or 3s Ryu like A3 Ryu. Capcom games don’t change a character’s movelist, they alter a character’s strategy.
The fact you guy think SFIV has added nothing show how clueless you are about top level SF. Focus attacks is a good system to totally change how you use your character. SF games are about strategy, and anyone who play strategically will understand how good of a product SFIV is.
and for the record, I am an old school Capcom fanboy turned SNK fanboy. And then I decided to come on back home. I play everything and anything under the sun. But once I understand how a game pans out at high level, I just see SF as the better product. Capcom is all about strategic and refined gameplay. Whatever they do, they do right. I rather do 1 or two things perfectly, than 10 things imperfectly.-
In past times yes this has been the case. But things have been changing recently with some stellar releases- 98UM, KOFXI, 2002UM, MIRA,Tenka, and eventually KOFXII. SNK is taking more time to develop their games instead of push them out every year and this is making a HUGE difference.
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And SNK games aren’t? Not to knock on what you are saying completely…but you are speaking from I hate to say it, a NORTH AMERICAN BIASED PERSPECTIVE. Have you ever been to Mexico? Have you seen Japanese Garou MOTW, NGBC, Fatal Fury Special, RB1, RB2, KOFXI, 98UM vids etc? Have you seen Mexican KOF 2002 vids? New stuff is still being discovered in KOF 2002 and its still going strong just like your Capcom games…matter of fact KOF 2002 is going stronger because it is the most played fighting game in the world…
So the last KOF like that? KOF 2002 and 98 by far and away… Sam Sho V Special is another game like that, as well as Sam Sho II. SNK has their games that are still being played and new stuff is being discovered. I know this from personal experience (KOFXI etc) and from what I see in not only match vids on a weekly basis, but from translating BBS boards and talking to Japanese, Argentinian, Mexican, Chilean,European, Peruvian,Brazilian, and other players. Just because its not The US of A doesnt mean its not happening.
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We arent asking for gimmicks in the game. We are asking for Capcom just to try harder Thats all. All they have to do is release DLC’s that add stuff to the game in due time…thats all…and with this new method if it sucks they can remove it…but give us new stuff.
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I understand how good SF is…but to me it is too slow overall and too simplistic. Its just footsies, mind games, fireball traps etc…nothing more. That doesn’t hold me for very long, it bores me…so SFIV has more I can at least get into…so thus for me its cool in my book.
-DG
Face it, people like you only play SF4 because you want to jerk off to Ken all day. The fact that Capcom added the entire SF2 cast only to have damn near everyone pick Ken anyway is proof of that. If Ken wasn’t in SF4 no one would even play that shit.
Lol, I don’t even play shotos. I’m strictly a Dhalsim and Guile player, and sometimes a Chun-Li player. If you can’t beat a crappy Ken player, and want to whine, then you’re nothing but a scrub anyway.
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I do like many SNK games, so don't get me wrong. I can't say anything about Fatal Fury. IMO, if SNK were smart (which they're not), they'd be pushing Fatal Fury instead of KOF. Seriously, Fatal Fury is the only game from SNK that could probably actually compete with SF.
I dislike many KOF games because of the overemphasis on rushing down. For me, it feels that if I do not get the momentum early in the game, then I’m being pressure the entire match. A lot of things like anti-airs don’t work as well as I would like and such. and just not a huge emphasis on spacing. It can be fun in small doses, don’t get me wrong. but to me it’s just this entire one sided gaming style which I don’t like.
The same is with Guilty Gear (and I love that game). But I don’t feel like I’m in control in Guilty Gear if I’m being pressured. It feels like escaping pressure is just me waiting for the other guy to screw up.
I like Capcom games because there is thinking the entire match. I feel if I am smart enough I can never lose to a less compotent player. It feel like my mind is my tool in SF. and my character and their abilities will just help me beat my opponent.
SNK games and even ArcSys games may be faster pace. But you also lose a sense of control when playing these games. If someone is fighting dumb and abare with a character, you know it’s just the character power than that person’s flawless defense. In capcom games, you would need to have flawless offense to keep pressure on your opponent like that.
Basically Capcom games compliment many playstyles. you can play rushdown, zoning, keep away, etc. and it all balances out. KOF games are just a little too one dimensional in terms of playstyles they compliment
There’s so many things I want to call you out on your post, but this is the dumbest that stands out.
Who the hell plays ReAct and Slash anymore? Those games have already gotten sequels/upgrades (for obvious/various reasons).
Sounds more like an issue of understanding ST more and understanding other fighters less than other games themselves having less.
LEt's face it, there is nothing more to know about those games. Period. And it didn't take long to get the games to that point. I would take your point if the latest Guilty Gear game was still showing people new stuff. Basically, the games are pretty straightfoward.
Try to build momentum, use pressure, use your mobility to escape pressure, and use to sort of guard cancel/combo breaker facility.
Basically nearly every character in the game rely on the same basic strategy, get close and apply pressure. A game where every character has the same goal is doomed to only be played a short while.
Accent Core is still played in Japan, but not really like it use to. Gamervision dropped it's Accent Core ranbat.
Street Fighter games, characters play differently and have different goals and different mindsets. which is why Street Fighter games rarely are retired despite the presence of successors.
It depends on what SNK game you are playing…it depends on what KOF game you are playing as well.
KOFXI for the longest time all I heard was “Its just Hyperhopping KGO”, then I went to Mexico and saw how different all this was. Theres defensive characters, offensive etc…and while yes KOFXI may be a very offensive game…it is NOT Street Fighter. But at the same time it encompasses different styles of play so you can’t say it doesnt. If someone just hyperhops all day in KOFXI only amateurs would get befuddled by all that. Experts would know jabs, Cr.C’s, St.Ds and other small things stop all that.
Its stuff like this that EASILY separate the amateurs from the experts.
My style of play is just that…its a combination of many styles. While I prefer to be aggressive, I can sit and pull the Turtle Justin Wong-Steve H. Style out of my ass if need be. KOF allows me to do that…but to beginners all they see is people hopping around and thats understandable.
KOF 98 and 2002 are primary examples. In 98 with Daimon and others you can just sit back and poke all day. With even my team in 98UM of Eiji-EX Geese-Krauser, though I am more offensive aggressive minded…if that fails I will change my style on the fly and play very smart, turtly, pokey, and win ugly with pokes etc.
People like Billy Kane are like Dhalsim and you have many other types also. Matter of fact I would argue KOF and SNK have like 10x more variety in playstyles and characters than Capcom and SF (Angel, May Lee etc, see SF4: Viper is their version of a Vanessa tricky type execution rewarding style character, Abel is their version of an SNK grappler) The main thing SF players get lost at in KOF is not only the speed, but the system and mechanics…its too different for them…too “complex” for a lot of them to grasp. Its not just footsies, poking, fireball traps and spacing…its more than that…its four types of jumps…bewaring of instant overheads…knowing when to Guard Cancel Roll when not to…knowing all the 40+ different matchups in the game.
KOF is very very deep…you look at 98 and 2002 and Matchups are equally as important as knowing how to play the game.
-DG