While I agree with some of you’re points, I notice the primary difference between SNK fighters and Capcom fighters is that Capcom games can usually be demoted to very simplistic concepts. SF2 can be trivialized into projectile spam/poking, SF3 demeans to parrying/SA3 Yun and A3 is CC’s/Akuma. Now clearly it’s a very gross over generalization, but if you break it down to it’s basic core…its what the game usually amounts to in the end. It’s probably because of this simplistic system that SF is so over with people espcially in NA, because its easy enough for people to join in yet it’s deep enough for high level competition.
On the other hand, with SNK games it feels like the evolution of the "SF"mehcanics all tastfully blended together. In the very good KOF tittles like 98 or 02 u get the full package, u get the defensive zoning/spacing/footies and u get the aggressive rushing/poke strings/large combos…in short u get more variety and progression.
I’m in a group that has been getting together to play this game every friday since the release and don’t play I online at all (at the moment I can’t even if I wanted to).
That may be true but it still doesn’t change the fact that I’m not really having any fun playing this game, winning or losing. If you have fun playing it that’s great but it might just not be for me… then again I’ve never really liked ST either so maybe that’s my problem.
The funny thing is I’ve heard complaints that SF3 had a "homogenized"playstyle for most of its characters because of the universal commands and parrying…hell most of my buds even got tired of SF2 a bit because of how consistent the characters playstyles were. You couldn’t for example play SFT2 Fei as anything but a rush character to be perfetly effective, with Kyo in 98 u could zone and turtle but ur welcomed to play offensivly and still be very effective.
Is it just me or do people oversimplify some games to validate the complexity of their favorite game or game they spend the most time on? That is what it looks like what is happening to me. Either that or they spend enough time or understand one game’s subtleties while not understanding another games ones. Either way, this is really not on topic.
What do you mean they arent anymore diverse? KOF doesnt have true grapplers…to me thats great and thats DIVERSE…because they dont fit that stereotypical definition of a grappler…that Capcom has defined to a tee over the last 10 or so years (With Zangief and T.Hawk, Abel is the next stage…meaning is he a true grappler? Nope…just like SNK, hence I say hes built in the mold of an SNK grappler, hes got more than just grapples and stuff for that situation, hes got rekkas and rekkas with mixups etc)…I’d take someone who isnt a true grappler like Angel (who has command grabs) or Daimon (Who is a grappler but is known more for his pokes than his grabs) over a bunch of true grapplers anyday of the week…
This shows they can be played many different ways…which I am sure applies to many in SF also…so it applies to KOF as well.
KOF is more than what you say…its about poking and everything Street Fighter is about as well as all the other stuff…so all the stuff in Street Fighter applies…but at a much faster rate in KOF.
Also yeah I agree from a one-on-one POV Fatal Fury could best match up with SF< but KOF has overtaken Fatal Fury and like every other SNK franchise as the most popular fighting game…so thats the comparison.
And once again to me this is all my opinion I state that again and again so that people can feel free to disagree and I respect them as long as they respect me.
Well I’ll tell you this. There so much going on in a SF match that it boggles the mind. At a surface level it all looks like fireball spam and poking. But clearly it’s more than that. There is a lot of depth in spacing and footsies. Good footsies take years to learn. And of course the speed of the mindgames in SF is incredible. SF is not a flashy combo fighter for sure. But the combos that are there take precise timing, and the game is much more faster to play than watch. I’ll admit, that in comparison to games like Guilty Gear, SF doesn’t look too appealing. But you have to have fast reactions, good timing, impeccable zoning, good footsies, and be aware of distance. If you’re not, you’ll be murdered pretty quickly.
Street Fighter is much less flattering because defense is definitely emphasized in the game. And while you can be offensive in Street Fighter, your offense has to be on point. Street figher games don’t have tri jumps of universal overheads, so sometimes your offensive game has to be a bit more creative. To me that’s the fun of Street figher. It’s simplicity forces you to be more creative in what you do.
KOF is fun too, I like to break it out an play. But if you like KOF I urge you to get into Fatal Fury, either Garou or RBFF2 (although other RB games are just as fun). Fatal Fury is fast, offensive, defensive, but it feels much different than a KOF game. for me, it really is the game SNK should try to revive.
SST as a whole is like CvS2, which is fine for veteran [SS] players but not at all suitable for beginners. On that note alone, the Ultra system (which was designed with beginner players in mind) has the advantage, since the manner that EX moves are performed - first taking into account they can only be done in 2 out of the 6 spirits (ignoring the additional ones added to console version) - differs from one spirit to another. Considering what SFIV wanted to acheive, this would not at all have been a suitable approach.
Besides, I thought the EX moves in SST were just EXTRA moves, not real DMs per se (I never understood why SNK never gave characters in SS more than 1 super; they give them out like candy in KoF). If they’re supposed to be DM, then you still shouldn’t be able to do them multiple times, even with a delay.
> The earlier ones absolutely
Thank you.
> So in summary, please go on keep playing Capcom games all of you…just keep giving me your money and others your money while I go to Mexico and other places!!!
I don’t understand this statement at all. If no one is playing your games, how/why are they giving you or the Mexicans money?
Also, re: SF
> Its just footsies, mind games, fireball traps etc…nothing more
Ultima- But still the premise behind Tenkas system is what needs to be applied to Ultras. Do you not agree with me that Ultras are too strong overall and build meter faster than Supers? Changing the tide of a match is not the same as doing too much damage and that being the emphasis of the match. EX Moves are DMs and yes while in 2 out of 6 of the spirit grooves I still say this is how it should be applied in regards to this game, tone them down, don’t make them as deadly, and dont make them build up faster than the super meter, I mean seriously the goal is to land an Ultra.
I mean cmon we all know Tenka is a Collection of the Sam Sho games, and lets face it, not all of them had Supers…just like in HSF2 ONLY Super and Turbo had the super meter option. Now I’m not saying Tenkas system is perfect either, but I think its far more balanced than SF4s thats where I am getting at.
I agree and repped…hence I try to play as many different games as possible…though obviously I will focus on SNK because I like it the most…
Spoken like someone who has no idea what they’re talking about
and I think landing a reversal ultra or EX tiger uppercut etc when I mess up a link because you’re spamming it is tantamount to what you described(well except it takes significantly less skill than mashing out a BnB)
and I’m pretty sure it leaves the bad players with the same satisfaction.
In any fighting game, the differences are obvious between good and bad players. You don’t have to put street fighter up on a pedestal because that’s the only one you know about
quoted for the amount of stupidity on it, you really belive that only by knowing combos you would be able to defeat a really good player? seriously?
even if you cant see it all the basics of sf are in other fighters too, if you cant out think your adversary, it wouldnt matter if you practiced you fancy combos that you saw on the internet, you wouldnt win, no in mvc2, no in gg, no in ah2.
02 has only one unique system “progression”, which is just a tweak of their MAX mode from SvC, mixed in with a stock break from 97/98. Which they even used again in 98UM. It’s essentially a Roman Cancel.
XI, was also a tweak if you dig into it. NGBC, once again, was a tweaking. The only huge difference between the games are roster changes and updates. Kinda like ST -> A2.
Tekken.
If you wanna go off of cash, SC2 outperformed it during their arcade runs.
Dunno if you’ve been paying attention over the past decade.
Realistically, the KOF brand can be considered to have only 2 WORTHY games, with everything in between being considered beta/throwaway titles. I’ll even go on record that if it weren’t for the piratability of the Neo-Geo, most of those countries you list wouldn’t even have top players, let alone a scene, but that’s neither here nor there. Because of that, however, it allows them to actually play, and since they have damn near nothing else as far as competition(once again, in certain places), it naturally leads to a larger SNK community, a fiercer, more competitive one. Same as how SNK never took off here. But this is all history that you should know well, so i should be preaching to the choir.
HOWEVER, SRK as a whole doesn’t give a fuck if you remember or not, or if you’re the leader of whatever, so stop replying to remind us. We know already because if one were to skim through your history, you toss that note around like it’s a safety net. We’ve clashed over this shit before, your excess passion is your undoing. As Arturo likes to say, “Turn it DOWN”.
We’re not gonna have another SNK vs. Capcom thread here.
There are literally piles of them sold back within months.
Here’s your problem, it’s not that SF is the most played, but it is the most RECOGNIZED. I think you’ve mixed up those two somewhere. You could show random joe a picture of a Japanese dude in a white gi, sleeves torn off and a red headband and a Japanese highschooler, and most of them would prolly get some part of the Ryu description right. Brand Recognition. Kinda like showing off the (old) Pepsi logo then (not to diss SNK) some local Cola brand’s logo.
Every time I see this I wonder why you come back if you’re gonna be confrontational.
The problem with Tenka’s “ultras” is that they aren’t useful most of the time(or at all for a good handful of characters), and are more akin to the hidden moves from the older games than anything else. Consider what other “groove” has the ability to use the “hidden moves”.
Skewed Risk/Reward has been a staple for SNK games for a long time.
That particular groove isn’t good because of the ‘parry’ system, it’s because it’s the only one to allow you to have a stock version of your Rage bar, which fills no matter what you do(IIRC). It’s because of that versatility, combined with certain characters, not the fact that you can use the “hidden supers” which are for the most part never worth it.
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(Ultras do too much damage and not only that but build up faster than the super meter!!! wtf?)I mean correct me if I’m wrong, but the goal in SF4 really is to hit as many Ultras as possible…thats nothing new to an SNK player, let them keep on doing that and they will see how risky it is!!!
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1- A good handful of characters have relatively low dmg output. Sakura and Dan’s ultras in particular are low in the actual damage dept.
2- Unless you’re leaving yourself open at points you shouldn’t be, there’s no reason why you’d get hit by 2 ultras.
3- At even mid level play, you won’t be seeing ultras THAT often. The most often seen ultras are the ones that can be comboed into. All others need to be setup, or require your opp to be asleep at the wheel. Also, refer to #2.
And also make the actual Ultras into generally useless but kinda flashy moves that don’t even add to gameplay.
you say that as if many of us don’t travel as well. Why do you make comments like these? I’d really like to know. Every time you have a valid point you shove your own foot in your mouth.
So would a lot of us, however, THAT WAS NOT THE POINT OF SF4. it’s been posted up many times, especially AS THE GAME WAS STILL IN DEVELOPMENT, as to what the plan with SF4 was.
Honorable mention to Ultima, who said the same shit in a different way.
I’ll be real here, this thread isn’t and shouldn’t’ve been a launchpad for another SNK debate, and as expected it got dumb. Keep the SNK shit in the respective threads, let’s all be civil, and dammit DG stop getting drawn in so deep that you fuck up other threads for no real reason.
Incorrect. We’ve dropped crap just like any other community. Just like there’s no one playing Tekken 4, no one playing SC3, and no one playing KOF03, there is also no one playing CFJ. Where’s the bias?
But these communities under these other companies are so open to a fresh Capcom game(where it applies)? Bias is everywhere.
No, the wrong games getting exposure, or lack thereof, is killing the genre. This has less to do with SF than it does with gamers and the industry in general.
People around the world still play shitty games. Just because one person says that they’re good isn’t a reason to raise that person up on a pedestal. What if DG said to play SvC because people around the world play it(which is true). Would you defend it then?
Where are the biases again?
You can count on one finger how many 2D SS games didn’t have “supers”. Also, correct yourself on the HSF2 bit.
As for the Tenka vs SF4 ultra bit, who cares, they were generally useless for most characters. Ultras in SF4 have a pretty specific guideline, to give yourself a chance to get back in the game. IT IS NOT THE ONLY WAY TO GET BACK IN THE GAME, AND IT IS NOT THE EASIEST. A lot of Ultras are exactly the same as Supers with different invul frames and I guarantee if they didn’t have an additional perk(more dmg fully charged than your super) they’d never be used except for certain characters who actually have better Ultras than Supers.
