Should Street Fighter IV be used as a template for future fighters?

[Tech_Romancer]

Not just no or hell no, but FUCK NO. SFIV is a safe game, not a great one. Very little innovation on capcoms part IMO. This game once again was never supposed to step into the realm of 3D or 2.5D, take your pick. It just wasn’t made for that. Making the game like they did was just a way to justify charging us $60+ for it.

I mean really. Doesn’t it seem like a crying shame that it took capcom 12 years to come up with 4 characters, a focus attack which is kind of like the parry but extremely situational and almost useless and a revenge/ultracombo meter/attack? Are you shitting me? Why should I have to take damage in order to dish out 3 bars of pain ala SFA style?

Focus attack= SNK’s just defense+SF3’s parry but no where near as good. With skill and timing, you could parry almost anything. Not so much with the focus attack.

Revenge/ultra combo meter= SNK’s Rage Guage from SS series

So why should SFIV be a template for anything when it can barely be it’s own game? When I play SFIV, I see a game that has some what gone back to it’s roots to give us solid game play. Like I said this is good, but not great. You don’t have to use the focus attack to win. In the other 2D fighter that are out there, you damn well better use everything that the fighting system offers or you will lose.

When you have time, go and read up on all the shit that’s in Guilty Gear’s fighting system. It’s a pretty old game by today’s standards. It’s system is chocked with all kinds of fisticuffs goodness from air dashing to RC/FRC and a whole lot of other shit. More than that 2 optional improvements to the system that SFIV gives us. 3 if you want to count dashing and EX stuffs, but those have been done already in SF3 along with the fact that they were first added in the dark stalkers/vampire savior series before SF3.

ONEZ

I have to agree. I kept wondering, why exactly when I attended Impact Clash and tried SF4, I was so…underwhelmed. Maybe it was because I hated the art and some of the animation…I couldn’t put my finger on it. I guess maybe I was more concerned with GGXXAC casuals and playing SFEX3 with Return of Shiki and Pokchop. But, why was it that SFEX3 grabs me almost immediately, and SF4 didn’t? I figured because I had played it longer.

Anyway, I got to expand my experience when my friend Mike brought the game for PS3. We had some long sessions with it, I read up on the game mechanics. And one thing came to mind - it feels so similar to SFII. That’s not a problem I guess, but the package feels a bit too safe to me. I don’t mind simplicity, but the game doesn’t feel like it has much longevity. I’m not hating on it; pretty ambivalent towards it, but there’s just nothing to grab on for me there. I seriously wonder how this game will look in future tourney play.

But this is irrelevant. Like the interview said, it was meant to be based on SFII. It does cater more to the masses, despite claims to the contrary. This is not exactly bad in this case, but to me, it means the game must sacrifice things other titles have when it comes to gameplay. Its more about Capcom making SFIV because they wanted to milk the franchise again. The big thing is Capcom doesn’t have to listen to the fans and they really don’t anymore. At the end of the day, its about business and people have to get paid.

EDIT: This is really shallow of me, I’ll be honest. But to me, presentation means a lot in games. I’m certainly not a graphics whore; its about how the game does things, its sense of style, etc. I think the art in SFIV is really bad. Atrocious. It looks ugly, save for a few cases. The stages are colorful but look strange and possess no atmosphere to me. The announcer is annoying, but I hear you can turn him off. The character selection is poor. I don’t appreciate the taking away of multiple supers. Finally, the new characters are so stupid to me. People complain about SF3 characters, but at least they look logical. Its as if they weren’t taking it seriously. They all look dumb, save for abel and C. Viper, who just look like they belong in a different genre entirely. I already find the gameplay not particularly exciting, so these issues just compound it for me. I wish I could say these things don’t matter, that I don’t care, but they do bother me. Its just too silly at times.

[system]

Why not? And BTW, level of play has nothing to do with new innovation a fighting games mechanics… If that came out right. Look, when I play a new fighting game, I don’t want to play something and say hey, that’s exactly like this other game. I want to be wowed with new shit and options on the fly that I can use in battle. That’s what I’m talking about. Not peoples ability to exhibit a high level of play. All the high level playing in the world isn’t going to allow one character to do something that’s totally out of the system of the game. Yes there are some exceptions to this rule, but that’s how we end up with glitches and shit like roll cancelling, but that’s a rarity in itself. Daigo is a high level player, I’m sure most people can all agree to that. But you know what, you’ll never see him make zangief air dash in SFIV. BECAUSE IT WASN’T ADDED TO THE GAMES MECHANICS/SYSTEM!!!

SFIV didn’t give us enough in terms of gameplay IMO. A newer game should be able to surpass an older one. You sit down, you look at the fucking hot dog and go hmm, you know what, I like this hot dog, but this shit would taste a lot better if it wasn’t just meat and bread. I know I’ll add some (insert condiment here) that’ll make it better. I’m not going to go out and make the same fucking hot dog with stale bread.

ONEZ

SFIV is a cash cow, they played safe hence predicatable and they didn’t innovate a damn thing…all I see is a lesser game of it’s previous sequal.

[system]

I have to agree. I kept wondering, why exactly when I attended Impact Clash and tried SF4, I was so…underwhelmed. Maybe it was because I hated the art and some of the animation…I couldn’t put my finger on it. I guess maybe I was more concerned with GGXXAC casuals and playing SFEX3 with Return of Shiki and Pokchop. But, why was it that SFEX3 grabs me almost immediately, and SF4 didn’t? I figured because I had played it longer.

Anyway, I got to expand my experience when my friend Mike brought the game for PS3. We had some long sessions with it, I read up on the game mechanics. And one thing came to mind - it feels so similar to SFII. That’s not a problem I guess, but the package feels a bit too safe to me. I don’t mind simplicity, but the game doesn’t feel like it has much longevity. I’m not hating on it; pretty ambivalent towards it, but there’s just nothing to grab on for me there. I seriously wonder how this game will look in future tourney play.

But this is irrelevant. Like the interview said, it was meant to be based on SFII. It does cater more to the masses, despite claims to the contrary. This is not exactly bad in this case, but to me, it means the game must sacrifice things other titles have when it comes to gameplay. Its more about Capcom making SFIV because they wanted to milk the franchise again. The big thing is Capcom doesn’t have to listen to the fans and they really don’t anymore. At the end of the day, its about business and people have to get paid.

EDIT: This is really shallow of me, I’ll be honest. But to me, presentation means a lot in games. I’m certainly not a graphics whore; its about how the game does things, its sense of style, etc. I think the art in SFIV is really bad. Atrocious. It looks ugly, save for a few cases. The stages are colorful but look strange and possess no atmosphere to me. The announcer is annoying, but I hear you can turn him off. The character selection is poor. I don’t appreciate the taking away of multiple supers. Finally, the new characters are so stupid to me. People complain about SF3 characters, but at least they look logical. Its as if they weren’t taking it seriously. They all look dumb, save for abel and C. Viper, who just look like they belong in a different genre entirely. I already find the gameplay not particularly exciting, so these issues just compound it for me. I wish I could say these things don’t matter, that I don’t care, but they do bother me. Its just too silly at times.

Capcom attempted to innovate with SF3,as they did with the alpha series hence why both of them feel like completly 2 seperate entities from SF2. SF4 feels chaotic to me, almost unfinished in a sense. The sub systems are poorly exeucted, the roster is repetitive and the overall direction is in the shadow of a decade old tittle…basically IMO it’s a "been there and done that"situation except I’ve already experienced better.

[Tech_Romancer]

^ Of course its a cash cow. No, it doesn’t innovate on anything, but seeing as we’re all 2D fighter whores, this is not my main issue, as we’re used to doing rehashes.

I do see a good thing in it though, it has gotten more people to into fighters, even if its just SFIV. And also, perhaps it might mean more good things for us that are more dedicated in the future.

Of course, it remains to be seen if the new people who came just because of SFIV are the kind of people one want in the scene, but I remain optimistic for now.

I do not think SFIV should be used as a template, gameplay wise and aesthetics wise in the future. But from a business standpoint, I guess maybe it works…

[system]

Agreed.

[OmNiExiZt]

I have to agree. I kept wondering, why exactly when I attended Impact Clash and tried SF4, I was so…underwhelmed. Maybe it was because I hated the art and some of the animation…I couldn’t put my finger on it. I guess maybe I was more concerned with GGXXAC casuals and playing SFEX3 with Return of Shiki and Pokchop. But, why was it that SFEX3 grabs me almost immediately, and SF4 didn’t? I figured because I had played it longer.

Anyway, I got to expand my experience when my friend Mike brought the game for PS3. We had some long sessions with it, I read up on the game mechanics. And one thing came to mind - it feels so similar to SFII. That’s not a problem I guess, but the package feels a bit too safe to me. I don’t mind simplicity, but the game doesn’t feel like it has much longevity. I’m not hating on it; pretty ambivalent towards it, but there’s just nothing to grab on for me there. I seriously wonder how this game will look in future tourney play.

But this is irrelevant. Like the interview said, it was meant to be based on SFII. It does cater more to the masses, despite claims to the contrary. This is not exactly bad in this case, but to me, it means the game must sacrifice things other titles have when it comes to gameplay. Its more about Capcom making SFIV because they wanted to milk the franchise again. The big thing is Capcom doesn’t have to listen to the fans and they really don’t anymore. At the end of the day, its about business and people have to get paid.

EDIT: This is really shallow of me, I’ll be honest. But to me, presentation means a lot in games. I’m certainly not a graphics whore; its about how the game does things, its sense of style, etc. I think the art in SFIV is really bad. Atrocious. It looks ugly, save for a few cases. The stages are colorful but look strange and possess no atmosphere to me. The announcer is annoying, but I hear you can turn him off. The character selection is poor. I don’t appreciate the taking away of multiple supers. Finally, the new characters are so stupid to me. People complain about SF3 characters, but at least they look logical. Its as if they weren’t taking it seriously. They all look dumb, save for abel and C. Viper, who just look like they belong in a different genre entirely. I already find the gameplay not particularly exciting, so these issues just compound it for me. I wish I could say these things don’t matter, that I don’t care, but they do bother me. Its just too silly at times.

You said exactly what I was thinking. I almost feel like this game was made to appeal to the younger crowd. They gave the game what I would like to call the kiddy look. Bulging eyes and all that stuff for the kids that are ages 12 and under. Then capcom thought, you know, if we stick a 4 on this thing. The barely breathing fighting community will still come a running. There is no way that we should have played this game before. But we have. Was that announcer really necessary? Are those corny ass catch phrases during each characters interaction needed?

They are trying to develop something there, but I’m not sure what it is. It’s like, they are trying to force the characters personalities down your throat so that you will like them. The problem with that is that they were characters that we already fell in love with way back when they had next to nothing to say. Now they just look and sound dorky. I just don’t know what to think anymore. But had everyone boycotted the shit out of this game, capcom probably would have given up the series altogether. And who’s bright idea was it to make this games time frame after SF2 but before 3 and call it 4? Why can’t they just move forward? I mean hell, I’d like to know what ever became of Sean and the rest of the SF3 cast. The only thing that makes this game new is the fact that it’s 3D and that IMO is debatable. So what we have here is the first working 3D SF game.

Why capcom why? So many unanswered questions, so much pain, confusion and suffering. I’m getting cold and afraid… so alone, so alone.

Somebody hold me…:shake:

ONEZ

[system]

You said exactly what I was thinking. I almost feel like this game was made to appeal to the younger crowd. They gave the game what I would like to call the kiddy look. Bulging eyes and all that stuff for the kids that are ages 12 and under. Then capcom thought, you know, if we stick a 4 on this thing. The barely breathing fighting community will still come a running. There is no way that we should have played this game before. But we have. Was that announcer really necessary? Are those corny ass catch phrases during each characters interaction needed?

They are trying to develop something there, but I’m not sure what it is. It’s like, they are trying to force the characters personalities down your throat so that you will like them. The problem with that is that they were characters that we already fell in love with way back when they had next to nothing to say. Now they just look and sound dorky. I just don’t know what to think anymore. But had everyone boycotted the shit out of this game, capcom probably would have given up the series altogether. And who’s bright idea was it to make this games time frame after SF2 but before 3 and call it 4? Why can’t they just move forward? I mean hell, I’d like to know what ever became of Sean and the rest of the SF3 cast. The only thing that makes this game new is the fact that it’s 3D and that IMO is debatable. So what we have here is the first working 3D SF game.

Why capcom why? So many unanswered questions, so much pain, confusion and suffering. I’m getting cold and afraid… so alone, so alone.

Somebody hold me…:shake:

ONEZ

Upscaled EX series anyone?

[Radiantsilvergun3]

I have to agree. I kept wondering, why exactly when I attended Impact Clash and tried SF4, I was so…underwhelmed. Maybe it was because I hated the art and some of the animation…I couldn’t put my finger on it. I guess maybe I was more concerned with GGXXAC casuals and playing SFEX3 with Return of Shiki and Pokchop. But, why was it that SFEX3 grabs me almost immediately, and SF4 didn’t? I figured because I had played it longer.

Anyway, I got to expand my experience when my friend Mike brought the game for PS3. We had some long sessions with it, I read up on the game mechanics. And one thing came to mind - it feels so similar to SFII. That’s not a problem I guess, but the package feels a bit too safe to me. I don’t mind simplicity, but the game doesn’t feel like it has much longevity. I’m not hating on it; pretty ambivalent towards it, but there’s just nothing to grab on for me there. I seriously wonder how this game will look in future tourney play.

But this is irrelevant. Like the interview said, it was meant to be based on SFII. It does cater more to the masses, despite claims to the contrary. This is not exactly bad in this case, but to me, it means the game must sacrifice things other titles have when it comes to gameplay. Its more about Capcom making SFIV because they wanted to milk the franchise again. The big thing is Capcom doesn’t have to listen to the fans and they really don’t anymore. At the end of the day, its about business and people have to get paid.

EDIT: This is really shallow of me, I’ll be honest. But to me, presentation means a lot in games. I’m certainly not a graphics whore; its about how the game does things, its sense of style, etc. I think the art in SFIV is really bad. Atrocious. It looks ugly, save for a few cases. The stages are colorful but look strange and possess no atmosphere to me. The announcer is annoying, but I hear you can turn him off. The character selection is poor. I don’t appreciate the taking away of multiple supers. Finally, the new characters are so stupid to me. People complain about SF3 characters, but at least they look logical. Its as if they weren’t taking it seriously. They all look dumb, save for abel and C. Viper, who just look like they belong in a different genre entirely. I already find the gameplay not particularly exciting, so these issues just compound it for me. I wish I could say these things don’t matter, that I don’t care, but they do bother me. Its just too silly at times.

Abel doesn’t belong in SF but Q, Necro and Twelve just fit right in. Riiiiiiiiiiight.

[Mizuki]

ITT: People who don’t know what they’re fucking talking about, talk like they know shit, and people who actually know what they’re talking about aren’t talking enough. Hey wait…

[Alzarath]

^ stfu you dumb slut

[Mizuki]

^ stfu you dumb slut

OMG no, go back to missing NEC even though you’re like hella close.

[Alzarath]

lol

like I could’ve gone anywhere w/o $…

see you at evo hopefully? <3

[Master_Chibi]

There’s a few things that have to be addressed in my humble opinion~

Most every fighting game out there is playing it safe because let’s face it, even with the supposed ‘revitalization’ of the genre, the genre is still incredibly niche and ugly as hell to get into this late in the game.

SFIV is a nostalgia drenched ST on training wheels cash in.

BlazeBlue is the Playskool edition of Guilty Gear.

Super Turbo HDRemix is Super Turbo with a shiny coat of paint and handicap ramp.

Is there anything wrong with these games? No, of course not. They’re all pretty damn fun to play. The games carry over many characteristics from previous entries, so they’re easy to get into and hard to master and all that.

But then, things suddenly feel less exciting, or stale because all the old methods still work 15 years later, so you’re left to wonder what actual development is left in a game that was created this way. Can I get hype over treating a match up the in the same manner I’ve always treated it as? Why does this character feel like another character I’ve played before? And so on and so forth.

Those points are valid mind you, but when you have to factor in the business of the industry, it’s only right that you would aim to appeal to the biggest portion of your consumer market, which can best be done by playing it safe. Better safe then sorry obviously.

So that point is valid too. Fine. Both sides have meaning to their argument.

The problem here is that there have been plenty of god damn new games, featuring new mechanics, and new expierences that the majority of you just decided to shit on or likely ignore all together, so really you have noone to blame but yourselves.

Oh, I want a new SF expierence, this is the same shit I’ve always played!.

Did anyone really expect Capcom to do try something new and bold? This is CAPCOM we’re talking about here, we couldn’t get a new sprite for Morgan in 12 years of her being whored out to one game or another, and you people wanted something new?

Well where the fuck were you when Akatsuki Blitzkampf came about? A douji game with no air dashing bullshit? No infinites? No gay ass little girl fucking anime cast (the game is centered around god damn NAZI’s for fuck sake)? A parry defensive option done completely right?

What about Battle Fantasia?

I want a new GG game!

What about Melty Blood? A heavily momentum based, mind fuck heavy, fast as hell title that would likely make some Marvel heads spin?

Arcana Heart? A game where everyone is granted the same mobility, but vastly varied offensive options (via Arcanas)?

God, the list goes on.

You people say you wanted a new expierence, and you were definitely offered it. Multiple times. The problem is that it required to step of your damn box and accept things being done differently, by companies whose names weren’t Capcom, and that is clearly too much effort on the part of the people here complaining to begin with.

Go ahead and let Capcom make another damn SF title, so we can complain about playing shit the same way we did thirty years ago.

Shit.

[System_1]

What about Melty Blood? A heavily momentum based, mind fuck heavy, fast as hell title that would likely make some Marvel heads spin?

I love Melty Blood. Then again I play Melee, too.

I agree with what you say in the sense that some people in this site stick to their niche games, but that is common in every competitive gaming community. It is also common for those same communities to complain about new games even if they are perfectly fine.

[Master_Chibi]

I like Melee and Brawl too.

Believe it or not.

[Phoenix_Azure]

Another damn good game that I think is pretty underrated is the Power Instinct Series. That serious was quite a lot of fun surprisingly.

[system]

There’s a few things that have to be addressed in my humble opinion~

Most every fighting game out there is playing it safe because let’s face it, even with the supposed ‘revitalization’ of the genre, the genre is still incredibly niche and ugly as hell to get into this late in the game.

SFIV is a nostalgia drenched ST on training wheels cash in.

BlazeBlue is the Playskool edition of Guilty Gear.

Super Turbo HDRemix is Super Turbo with a shiny coat of paint and handicap ramp.

Is there anything wrong with these games? No, of course not. They’re all pretty damn fun to play. The games carry over many characteristics from previous entries, so they’re easy to get into and hard to master and all that.

But then, things suddenly feel less exciting, or stale because all the old methods still work 15 years later, so you’re left to wonder what actual development is left in a game that was created this way. Can I get hype over treating a match up the in the same manner I’ve always treated it as? Why does this character feel like another character I’ve played before? And so on and so forth.

Those points are valid mind you, but when you have to factor in the business of the industry, it’s only right that you would aim to appeal to the biggest portion of your consumer market, which can best be done by playing it safe. Better safe then sorry obviously.

So that point is valid too. Fine. Both sides have meaning to their argument.

The problem here is that there have been plenty of god damn new games, featuring new mechanics, and new expierences that the majority of you just decided to shit on or likely ignore all together, so really you have noone to blame but yourselves.

Oh, I want a new SF expierence, this is the same shit I’ve always played!.

Did anyone really expect Capcom to do try something new and bold? This is CAPCOM we’re talking about here, we couldn’t get a new sprite for Morgan in 12 years of her being whored out to one game or another, and you people wanted something new?

Well where the fuck were you when Akatsuki Blitzkampf came about? A douji game with no air dashing bullshit? No infinites? No gay ass little girl fucking anime cast (the game is centered around god damn NAZI’s for fuck sake)? A parry defensive option done completely right?

What about Battle Fantasia?

I want a new GG game!

What about Melty Blood? A heavily momentum based, mind fuck heavy, fast as hell title that would likely make some Marvel heads spin?

Arcana Heart? A game where everyone is granted the same mobility, but vastly varied offensive options (via Arcanas)?

God, the list goes on.

You people say you wanted a new expierence, and you were definitely offered it. Multiple times. The problem is that it required to step of your damn box and accept things being done differently, by companies whose names weren’t Capcom, and that is clearly too much effort on the part of the people here complaining to begin with.

Go ahead and let Capcom make another damn SF title, so we can complain about playing shit the same way we did thirty years ago.

Shit.

Battle Fantasia is like a light 3s, why it isn’t more over is beyond me:confused:

[DS]

Chibi’s post is the only logical one in this entire thread. The rest of you are just nitpicking at it and will eventually STFU and play it. After all, I know half of you won’t even bother touching BlazBlue or KOFXII.

[Fiveways]

I think people should just stop whining and go play something else if they dont like SFIV. It just came out, its not clunky, “not fluid” or broken just because you aren’t good enough to beat your friends in it yet. Give it some time.

[Tech_Romancer]

Chibi’s post is the only logical one in this entire thread. The rest of you are just nitpicking at it and will eventually STFU and play it. After all, I know half of you won’t even bother touching BlazBlue or KOFXII.

I play GGXX and a slew of other shit no-one else will play so leave me alone. I’m nitpicking, not hating, but that’s because I wanted to figure out why it didn’t grab me. In any case, I don’t need anyone to tell me to play something else, I already do that fine, thanks.:tup:

I also agree with Chibi’s post, but he is not the only person to express those sentiments in this thread.