Complexity and difficulty doesn’t equal quality. Just want to throw that out there.
smh at this thread
re: new moves
Apparently a lot people haven’t been paying attention to how Capcom operates. They are NOT SNK: They don’t give their characters new moves willy-nilly because, in many instances, they nail their designs right from the start. They DO usually make a lot of changes from game to game, but they’re all subtle: Moving hitboxes, changing frame data, that sort of thing. It is almost seldom that their characters need a new move.
Take Sagat for example. Sagat is an almost perfectly designed character. He has had the same 4 moves since CE. He does NOT need any more moves than what he has. None. His normals were updated in SSF2, and he had 3 supers in Alpha (4 supers in CvS2), and that was pretty much perfect as far as his arsenal goes. In SFIV, everyone only has one super (which I don’t agree with, but this was a system decision, so we’re stuck with it for now) so he’s back to one and an Ultra that functions much the same way. They also gave him an overrhead and step kick juggle starter, neither of which he needed. He would still be a perfectly-designed character without either.
This habit of adding new moves “just because” - Capcom doesn’t do that because they don’t need to 95% of the time. It’s usually better for them to just tweak existing arsenals and work from there, because as history shows, merely tweaking a single normal can have a huge difference on how a character plays. As it is, SFIV actually has a ton of new strategies and is completely different to its predecessors because of EX moves and focus attacks, not to mention all the very changed move properties for… shit, everyone. If you don’t like this, then you’re following the wrong company/series/characters.
I’m also LOLing at fools who think SFIV is just SF2 part 2, because they’ve clearly not actually played the game and need to shut the fuck up. SF2 tactics is day 1 stuff. If you’re playing anyone good, by day 2, you try SF2 stuff and nothing else, you’ll get killed (hell, I play Bison, and he’s not SF2 enough for my liking).
I also feel really sorry for kurokuma, who either has really poor eyesight or is playing the game on broken hardware. He’s certainly not playing the same game that I am. The poor boy is missing out.
Dark Geese needs to stop apologising for SNK, who makes games that are popular in regions of the world that don’t matter to the gaming industry, economic-wise. I’m sure Capcom reps lose no sleep at night over the fact that, say, Mexico is gungho over KoF2K2. But since he seems to only count-non US opinions on the popularity of KoF, here’s a tip: KoF isn’t played in my country either. Never has been (we were more into Samurai Shodown, though SF is and still is king here).
BTW, to the person who mentioned it: NO, SF3 was NOT aimed at hardcore players. Just the opposite in fact. They took most of the scrub whining about SF2 (nerfed throws, nerfed FBs, weakened zoning on the whole, gave universal motions for all supers, gave you a way to come back from/avoid/counter nearly anything) and implemented it into SF3. The game became a haven for hardcore SF3 players only in hindsight; Capcom in no way, shape or form set out to do such a thing.
Yes yes! I laugh at them too!
It’s obvious that on a hardcore fighting game site devoted for hardcore fighting game fans to play fighting games hardcorely, these lowly peons saying that SF4 is an extension of SF2 are obviously playing the game exactly like SF2. Their peon brains obviously can’t comprehend the obvious differences in the systems of the two games; that’s why they say the games are so alike, when they obviously aren’t! I bet their BPs are in the negative. It’s obvious.
I’m particularly laughing at Yoshinori Ono, the creator. Cuz when he’s quoted as saying:
…and…
…and…
…it’s obvious this guy is clueless about the very game that he himself was heading the making of! LOL!!!
True. But even with FA and FADC, SF4 is still simple enough to be enjoyed by anyone. And it’s not like FA or FADC is really that complex to understand. Just making my argument that it’s a little “technique” without going going overboard, and it’s still a quality fighter.
like japanese guy wearing gi, and blond guy wearing gi, and fat sumo guy, and american soldier guy, general guy? VF characters are fine, and with customisation you can do prety much anything you like to make 'em look appealing to you.
On that note, tekken has some of the most retarded character designs in fighting game history. shit looks like it belongs on some ed hardy t shirt. and it animates like rock em sock em robots.
Im just sad cause VF5R isn’t out. carry on.
Let’s call it for what it is, Capcom wanted to milk the cow that is SF2…the lack of progression in either design or gameplay was a deliberate effort from the very creator because he wanted to make it feel like"Super Turbo". It’s cashing in with a cheap pop, not to the say the game is bad or anything but it is what it is. Personally the whole"well they get the designs and playstyles down right away so they dont need to change anything"is one of the shittest excuses I’ve ever heard in defense of anything to be perfectly honest. If the MK franchise was able to change things around every sequal then I don’t really see a excuse with the SF series…and on that note SNK has already out"Capcom"capcom IMO with a number of there games so progression isn’t nearly as imposible as ur making it sound.
As long as Capcom is making money they don’t give a shit what anyone thinks. Remember, people vote with their dollars. They go with what makes them the most money and if that’s SFVI then it will continue. I think Capcom’s track record speaks for itself.
At least they listen to their fans once in a while, but why give up with what works? Now what works for SNK and ASW is different, they have a different crowd and if things aren’t the way the fans want it, well gulp.
PS I think this is more of an economic problem than a fan one with all due respect.
Actually, who’s to say both aren’t right?
Capcom want’s to milk it but at the same time don’t want to mess around with it too much lest they might fuck it up. It’s both at play here.
Plus, it’s not a good idea to use MK of all games an example of “gameplay innovation”, because we all know how most people feel about the 3D MK games. The only good MK games were MK2 (For nostalgia), UMK3 (for being accidentally good) and MK vs DC (for actually feeling like an MK game despite lack of blood). MK vs DC’s the best of the 3D MK games and it’s because it’s based on UMK3 and they ditched the Deadly Alliance engine because no one liked it.
im only gonna say that this boy is one of the few 2009 members that doesnt suck, welcome to srk:wink:
I feel honored…though I might screw it up eventually…
I have to agree there, I was completely turned off by all those 3D MKs, guess it just didn’t feel the same. I might have to check out MKvsDC, as it’s probably going to be the last MK before the license gets sold.
Quotequotequotequotequote.
It doesn’t even take an animation student to figure this shit out too, it’s just common sense. I have no idea how or why so many people have convinced themselves otherwise.
Man i’ll give SNK props for making their games work every now and then (because MOTWs is brilliant) but why are you using a company that NEVER gets it right as an example?
Yet every MK tittle including the 3D ones have gone on to become the best selling tittles in it’s genre…
Let’s make SF more like Mortal Kombat because we see where that series has gone over the years. Maybe Capcom will end up like Midway.
Yeah but look at the lasting apeal. Ono’s looking to make something that people play for more then a week.
Not just no or hell no, but FUCK NO. SFIV is a safe game, not a great one. Very little innovation on capcoms part IMO. This game once again was never supposed to step into the realm of 3D or 2.5D, take your pick. It just wasn’t made for that. Making the game like they did was just a way to justify charging us $60+ for it.
I mean really. Doesn’t it seem like a crying shame that it took capcom 12 years to come up with 4 characters, a focus attack which is kind of like the parry but extremely situational and almost useless and a revenge/ultracombo meter/attack? Are you shitting me? Why should I have to take damage in order to dish out 3 bars of pain ala SFA style?
Focus attack= SNK’s just defense+SF3’s parry but no where near as good. With skill and timing, you could parry almost anything. Not so much with the focus attack.
Revenge/ultra combo meter= SNK’s Rage Guage from SS series
So why should SFIV be a template for anything when it can barely be it’s own game? When I play SFIV, I see a game that has some what gone back to it’s roots to give us solid game play. Like I said this is good, but not great. You don’t have to use the focus attack to win. In the other 2D fighter that are out there, you damn well better use everything that the fighting system offers or you will lose.
When you have time, go and read up on all the shit that’s in Guilty Gear’s fighting system. It’s a pretty old game by today’s standards. It’s system is chocked with all kinds of fisticuffs goodness from air dashing to RC/FRC and a whole lot of other shit. More than that 2 optional improvements to the system that SFIV gives us. 3 if you want to count dashing and EX stuffs, but those have been done already in SF3 along with the fact that they were first added in the dark stalkers/vampire savior series before SF3.
ONEZ
Stop comparing a brand new games to games that have been out 10+ years. Of course you have to use parry and shit to it’s fullest because everyone knows all the fucking tricks. Stop acting like SF4 should be played at the same level as 10+ year old games half a year out of the gate. Christ.
Why not? And BTW, level of play has nothing to do with new innovation a fighting games mechanics… If that came out right. Look, when I play a new fighting game, I don’t want to play something and say hey, that’s exactly like this other game. I want to be wowed with new shit and options on the fly that I can use in battle. That’s what I’m talking about. Not peoples ability to exhibit a high level of play. All the high level playing in the world isn’t going to allow one character to do something that’s totally out of the system of the game. Yes there are some exceptions to this rule, but that’s how we end up with glitches and shit like roll cancelling, but that’s a rarity in itself. Daigo is a high level player, I’m sure most people can all agree to that. But you know what, you’ll never see him make zangief air dash in SFIV. BECAUSE IT WASN’T ADDED TO THE GAMES MECHANICS/SYSTEM!!!
SFIV didn’t give us enough in terms of gameplay IMO. A newer game should be able to surpass an older one. You sit down, you look at the fucking hot dog and go hmm, you know what, I like this hot dog, but this shit would taste a lot better if it wasn’t just meat and bread. I know I’ll add some (insert condiment here) that’ll make it better. I’m not going to go out and make the same fucking hot dog with stale bread.
ONEZ
You speak still as if this is fact. This is your opinion that Capcom characters dont need anything new. This is not fact…I dont think Sagat is the perfect character either…not perfectly designed, so this is your opinion. (Matter of fact I think 98UM Krauser is far superior and complete than SFIV Sagat)
Like others have said…doing the same thing for 10 years gets stale and boring…hence I dont play with Iori anymore…
Also I am not apologizing at all for SNK…people just tend to forget that just because America doesnt play KOF doesnt mean the rest of the world doesnt either. Just because West Indies doesnt play KOF doesnt mean the rest of the world doesnt. Are you denying that KOF is the most played fighting game in the world???
It sounds like your attacking him for not appending every sentence with ‘imo’ which I would personally find annoying. Of course his opinions are opinions. Discerning fact from opinion is up to the reader. The last time I was tested for this ability was 1st grade and I passed. We don’t need people to tell us that their opinions are opinions. It’s not like he’s saying “FACT: SFIV SUCKS” which if he did, would be obvious sarcasm; at least the fact part.
Not every one of his sentences needs to say opinion…just the one at the end or the beginning…because point blank is some people believe these things to be facts…
Esp in the way people say things at times…its as if it is a fact…Also he has to realize some people are going to disagree with him saying Capcom doesnt need extras…and thats what I am saying…not everyone agrees with that…they dont think everyone is the “perfect character.”