Should Street Fighter IV be used as a template for future fighters?

Current Fighting Games Fighting Game Discussion
241

Possibly, but that’s proving my point. Instead of doing a SF3 right after WW, they remade SF2 thousands of times. Their forays into originality were all met with mixed fanfare. So for SF4, lesson learned, go back to what worked for them in the past, which was SF2. Didn’t Ono himself say that he basically wanted SF4 to be ST2?

Namdai something similar with Tekken 5. Regardless of the personal opinion, T4 was undoubtedly a pretty different game, but it was still Tekken. Nonetheless, it was met with apprehension. So T5 was made into T3.5 but with walls.

Why bother risking new systems and gameplay ideas when you can just use what worked in the past and what people liked?

But unlike Tekken, SF has a MASSIVE nostalgia factor that reaches almost any gamer. Tekken’s relative newness and lesser popularity can afford giving characters new moves with every game. But the thousands and thousands of people that haven’t played a SF game in over a decade but still fondly remember the arcade or 16-bit era of doing fireballs and “aw-you-cans”? I think that’s a bit different.

So they played it safe and made ST2.

But who is that, exactly? People that have been playing SF and fighters in general, yeah. You and me, oh hell yes. But how does that number compare to the number of people who just recently bought SF4 but slept on the dozens of quality fighters over the last decade? I’d be willing to bet if SF4 was EXACTLY like ST but in 2.5D with flashy supers, they’d be just as happy. None of the Flowchart Kens online seem to be complaining that they’re playing SF4 the exact same way they were playing SF2.

And that still runs the risk of alienating people. Many people don’t want new; they want what they know and are already familiar with. This is the reason why, despite all of the cast being in several other games and have several other supers, most of their ultras are just their ST supers, but with an additional flashy hit on the end.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending SF4. Even though I really like the game, I’ll always see it is a cash-in, complete with a few half-ass gameplay and aesthetic decisions (Akuma has two raging demons? WOW)

But I do see why Capcom went the safe route.

242

very valid, very depressing points:wasted:

I have to ask myself what is it about kof that all the other countries love? They’re constantly updating their toolsets for the characters(even giving the fat guys nice rushdown options) and the consumers in many area’s dont seem to mind…

243

The MK franchise which is easily more popular then even SF2, complety revamped the styles/gameplay/outfits of the iconic MK cast and that franchise is the best selling tittle of it’s genre for a good 5+ years standing. Everyone remembers MK1&2 possibly even more then they do SF2, and yet every sequal since then has had a virtually different style and outfit for each of it’s characters. Truth be told, change is not always a bad thing…and SF4 could have been something trully original instead of a 3D iteration of SF2.

244

With all this complaining, you guys so go play Guilty Gear. Oh wait, you won’t. You guys are all living Catch 22s.

245

It’s not really complaining, we all bought the game but it doesn’t mean we have to mindlessly adhere to every aspect of it. It’s good but not perfect,were simply remakring over it’s flaws.

246

Meh, guilty gear isn’t my type of game (ie: I think the game is crap but whatever). But honestly,he has 1 LESS move than he did in 3s (that roundhouse kick). And honestly, if they used the 3s System and stuck in the SF2 characters for SF3, it probably would’ve sold tons better.

247

Good points.

However, MK franchise wasn’t all success. MK3 was not well received. No more ninjas, weird settings, stupid characters, dumb autocombos. So they came back with UMK3, which, not surprisingly, was more like MK2 in gameplay and settings, and brought back all the beloved ninjas too. And it took quite a while for 3D MK to catch on. I certainly remember how hated MK4 was when it hit arcades.

But Midway took risks and reaped some rewards, and they do deserve props for that. Well, until they went bankrupt for sucking ass.

And I play GG. But no one else does :frowning:

248

They could have just mix alpha/turbo and 3s into a single engine but meh, guess its easiar to make a unproven engine from scratch:wgrin:

249

MK3 and MK4 were still commercial hits however, and even with UMK3 a lot of the characters didn’t play or even look like there MK1&MK2 counterparts. Not to mention the 3D series was literally a completly different series…and sold impressivly with every iteration despite massive changes. Midway just forgot to worry about sustaining there company through other projects…banking a sole franchise is never smart lol.

250

MvC3

251

I’ve read all 10 pages of this topic, and I thought I’d throw in my two cents. =D

  1. I’m an animation student, so I can tell you right now that the game being in 3D has NOTHING to do with how fast/slow it goes. I can animate with 2d and make something move slow, and I can animate in 3d and make something move fast. It’s like the difference between drawing with a pencil or a marker. Game speed was a conscious design choice that is SEPARATE from any form of rendering method. If a lot of 3d games are slow it’s because they WANTED the game slow. Not because they used 3d and it somehow throttled the game.

  2. I’m 19 and remember playing SF on Genesis and Super Nintendo. My friend, who is the same age, NEVER played SF in his life (weird, I know). He just bought SF IV and is loving it - it’s (incredibly!) his FIRST 2d fighter. He jumped in and picked up the game in no time.

Now let’s take a look at 3rd Strike, which is arguably much more complex. Would my friend, who has never even played a 2d fighter before, like that game nearly as much? HELL NO! He’d probably bitch about how hard it was to get into and then go back to playing other, less niche stuff.

Capcom, which targeted casuals like my friend, has a winner with SF IV. They don’t want to make the game complex or better than the other 2d fighters of the past decade because they’re catering to people WHO NEVER PLAYED the 2d fighters of the past decade.

And for all of the people who they roped in with nostalgia, why bother making something more complex? A lot of people who were old enough to remember SFII MOVED ON. Unlike a lot of the people on this forum, they stopped playing games after college, went out, got jobs/started families/whatever, and put video games behind them. The fact SF IV is so ‘simple’ is good because they can jump back in and feel the wave of nostalgia. They haven’t kept up with 2d fighter developments in recent years and would probably be annoyed if new game mechanics were present.

Quite frankly, Capcom is more worried about younger people and older people who don’t play as many games anymore. More hardcore people are just extra gravy willing to dish out for tournament edition arcade sticks.

So while SFIV might be seen as a step backwards to people who frequent these forums, it’s not seen that way for most everyone else. For now, people looking for more complex 2d fighters should just go play something else. Perhaps if SFIV restarts the SF franchise and EVERYONE begins playing again, then we’ll see an SFV with more complex mechanics.

Whew – long post. And remember - SFIII first came out in 1997, when a LOT of people still played SF. That’s why new mechanics and complexity were ok. If you’re reviving a series and aiming for casual appeal, complexity is a no-no.

252

Yeah. You go SNK. steal other peoples ideas! YEAH! Lets just completely ignore that MOTWs is one of the few SNK fighters to actually do everything right and ignore all the fucks up of the last 8 years.

What a mish mash cluster fuck that would have been. Any word you had on “all we want is originality” goes right out the fucking window. You’d rather have Capcom Fighting Jam 2 then an original mechanic. Christ.

253

How do you figure, nothing about that would be a cluster if MOTW or NGBC are any indication…honestly its easiar then peeps are giving credit.

254

and why is that bad?:confused:

why don’t have both versions or ryu, the old and the new. Why not capcom why not

nobody likes change?! yeah like nobody liked the new version of kyo in kof 96 and now look at it . Both versions are played and loved.

I’m not asking to change the whole character but add him at least a new move, a different super besides shoryukens and hadoukens that hit you multiple times, something.

bchan009

so you are saying SFIV belongs to the likes of games like MK vS DC

casual

255

if they could use the engine to create a sequel to Project Justice, that would be fucking pringles.

I figure all those ultras that throw/hit people way high in the air would make launchers pretty easy to create in the engine.

256

But at least SNK has shown some form of system and character progression. KOF 02, XI, ngbc are fuck ups??:looney: SF Nostalga is stifling progression. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

257

Quite frankly, yes. I think someone else here mentioned the idea that Capcom added in the ‘Focus Attack’ as an afterthought for more advanced fighting game players. People on SRK care about how it’s used and its complexities, but I doubt any of the people this game is REALLY marketed to give too much of a crap about it.

Again, take my friend for example - he RARELY uses FAs and I doubt he’d ever give a crap about how to use them properly.

SFIV is at its heart a casual game. The only reason it has as much depth as it does is because it’s based off of SFII, which had quite a lot going on to begin with. SFIV is almost SFII reborn with FAs thrown in, and I’ve already mentioned that FAs were just to make hardcore people happy.

If this game wasn’t called Street Fighter, I doubt something like FAs would have even been thrown in…but then again, I doubt the game would have sold even a quarter as much with a different name - so it’s a moot point.

258

If KOF 2002 is a fuckup its only here in America where its a fuckup…I think it being the most widely played KOF in the world speaks volumes about the game itself…and its probably the most played fighting game in the world…

But yet is a fuckup?

From a marketing POV no its not…so it would have to be an opinion…

-DG

259

I’ll disagree here.

I think SF4 is the best of both worlds. If SF4 were a truly casual game at heart, it would be just as much of a garbage game as DCvsMK and SSBB. They didn’t have to put in FAs at all if they simply wanted casuals. The makers of SSBB went out of their way to make SSBB almost impossible to play on a hardcore level, and they laughed all the way to the bank after that decision.

The fact that the game is very well balanced with a good amount of depth says something about who it’s for. They definitely wanted it to be simple and nostalgic enough so that newbies, nostalgia-hounds, FPS fans, etc. could get into it. But at the same time, they still wanted to make a quality fighter.

And I think they succeeded for the most part.

260

Well, first of all, you can’t really just throw ST, Alpha and SF3 together, because you’ve got conflicts between them. Would throws be SF2/SFA2 style, or SFA3/SF3 style? What about supers? ST style one only? SF3 style selectable one of three? SFA2/SFA3 A-ISM multiple all available? What about Custom Combos? Would their mechanics be SFA2 style or SFA3 style? What about their availability? Would they be always available ala SFA2, or would you have to give up supers ala SFA3 V-ISM? etc…